Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[Hawkster]

Nobody in Bison Land wants him either. Sorry he is here. But at least we dont have to listen to his drivel.

Many of us here question if he was ever a bison. What better way to troll then to pretend to be from your hated rival? He's an expert on every subject except what job (if any) he holds.

I don't even read what he posts. I just scroll right past and go to the next one. What a waste of band width.

[bison73]

Many of us here question if he was ever a bison. What better way to troll then to pretend to be from your hated rival? He's an expert on every subject except what job (if any) he holds.

I don't even read what he posts. I just scroll right past and go to the next one. What a waste of band width.

His one and only internet is to stir the post and be an ass. He has actually posted on another site that hes a jerk and doesnt believe anything that he posts. He has said he acts this way on message boards because he cant in real life. The guy is a real piece of work and we dont claim him as a fan. Hes an embarrassment.

[Old Time Hockey]

I agree that withholding donations does harm to UND but it also gets a message across.

I love UND, I love the athletics, I love the institution. I have always donated at least something every year. I have written my letters, my emails, made phone calls, posted things on FB to other fans and colleagues. What do I have left?

With SR officials working this out, where are the leaders of UND? Why aren't they saying, loudly, to give SR some time to work on the issue or pushing the SBofHE to honor their deadlines with the NCAA? There is a dearth of leadership on ALL fronts. I am glad Gov. Hoeven said something, even if it wasn't as forceful as I would have liked. I suspect that no one anticipated the political will to keep the name especially from SR and SL.

I also agree that any degrading, nasty language directed to or about Native Americans is counterproductive. The Anti-Nickname types always use racism as their golden ticket in this argument. From this moment forward, let's respect the Native population and stop giving the political fringe anymore ammunition. I will live with whatever SR decides.

But please, don't assume I hate UND or I'm a fairweather fan or immature if I elect to make a statement with my pocketbook. When I see some real leadership coming from UND, I will continue donating generously. To me, the Fighting Sioux name is more than a simple moniker. It is a tie between me, my home state, the Native American population, and my beloved UND.

This fight matters.

Spot On!

[Chewey]

His one and only internet is to stir the post and be an ass. He has actually posted on another site that hes a jerk and doesnt believe anything that he posts. He has said he acts this way on message boards because he cant in real life. The guy is a real piece of work and we dont claim him as a fan. Hes an embarrassment.

A lot of these nascent nickname experts and purveyors of entirely sterling insights about what UND should do are simply anti-nickname plants, in my opinion. Some, like FourWindsBoy, are obvious about it at least.

[Blackheart]

I agree that withholding donations does harm to UND but it also gets a message across.

I love UND, I love the athletics, I love the institution. I have always donated at least something every year. I have written my letters, my emails, made phone calls, posted things on FB to other fans and colleagues. What do I have left?

With SR officials working this out, where are the leaders of UND? Why aren't they saying, loudly, to give SR some time to work on the issue or pushing the SBofHE to honor their deadlines with the NCAA? There is a dearth of leadership on ALL fronts. I am glad Gov. Hoeven said something, even if it wasn't as forceful as I would have liked. I suspect that no one anticipated the political will to keep the name especially from SR and SL.

I also agree that any degrading, nasty language directed to or about Native Americans is counterproductive. The Anti-Nickname types always use racism as their golden ticket in this argument. From this moment forward, let's respect the Native population and stop giving the political fringe anymore ammunition. I will live with whatever SR decides.

But please, don't assume I hate UND or I'm a fairweather fan or immature if I elect to make a statement with my pocketbook. When I see some real leadership coming from UND, I will continue donating generously. To me, the Fighting Sioux name is more than a simple moniker. It is a tie between me, my home state, the Native American population, and my beloved UND.

This fight matters.

Totally agree. UND leadership needs to make every effort to make this work. Alumni are not just going to sit back and say, 'that's ok, they did their best; here's my check...' Kelley has made no effort to hide his support for the Summit and excitement for the new marketing opportunity.

He has no previous tie to UND; he's just a gun for hire to facilitate the change to D1.

[iramurphy]

Totally agree. UND leadership needs to make every effort to make this work. Alumni are not just going to sit back and say, 'that's ok, they did their best; here's my check...' Kelley has made no effort to hide his support for the Summit and excitement for the new marketing opportunity.

He has no previous tie to UND; he's just a gun for hire to facilitate the change to D1.

Kelly was hired because he was the best applicant for the job. Almost every person involved in the interview process felt he was the best choice. Where did you get the idea he was hired for the D1 move? He was not. That is ultimelately his responsibility but only a small part. What does his support for the Summit have to do with the move? The Summit League didn't stick UND with this and UND has to bring the logo/Sioux issue to a conclusion regardless of the Summit. Have you spoken with him? Why don't you do that? He is very accessible. He was at the Frozen Five in his Sioux Logo Jersey speaking with whomever talked to him. What exactly do you think "UND leadership" should be doing? Is there someone who thinks the successful resolution of this rests anywhere other than the tribal governments?

If you don't think UND has tried to reach out to the tribal governments then you haven't been paying attention. The SBoHE has also tried to reach out. That is what the NCAA set up.

Are you against the D1 move? We would be with the U of Mary's, U of Mn. Crookston's,, Moorhead State's (MSUM) etc. It cost us over $1,000,000 the last 4 Frozen Four years. Are you under the impression the hockey coaches are against the D1 move? I thought staying D2 for other sports other than hockey was a better fit until the NCAA diluted D2 and it is now a glorified D3. The flagship university of the state should be a D1 school. We once were in the same division as Northern Iowa, Montana, UNLV, Boise State etc. We should have moved up when UNI and Montana did years ago. Even if we stayed D2, we would still need to resolve this.

The debate on the issue is full of so much misinformation about what our UND officials have the authority to do. It is hard to debate the issue when too many people don't have the facts. It is like the people who keep criticizing the natives for getting a

"free" education.

Kelly's most important task is not keeping the name. He job is to communicate to the tribes that UND still would like to keep the name and will continue to support NA progams and if the name is kept continue to use it with respect and class. He just like Presidents Starcher, Clifford, Baker and Kupchella have no authority over the tribal governments and neither does the SBoHE any more than you or I.

[MplsBison]

His one and only internet is to stir the post and be an ass. He has actually posted on another site that hes a jerk and doesnt believe anything that he posts. He has said he acts this way on message boards because he cant in real life. The guy is a real piece of work and we dont claim him as a fan. Hes an embarrassment.

Hey there PL!

I knew it was you by the spot on grammar "His one and only internet is to stir the post", classic.

[homer]

Kelly was hired because he was the best applicant for the job. Almost every person involved in the interview process felt he was the best choice. Where did you get the idea he was hired for the D1 move? He was not. That is ultimelately his responsibility but only a small part. What does his support for the Summit have to do with the move? The Summit League didn't stick UND with this and UND has to bring the logo/Sioux issue to a conclusion regardless of the Summit. Have you spoken with him? Why don't you do that? He is very accessible. He was at the Frozen Five in his Sioux Logo Jersey speaking with whomever talked to him. What exactly do you think "UND leadership" should be doing? Is there someone who thinks the successful resolution of this rests anywhere other than the tribal governments?

If you don't think UND has tried to reach out to the tribal governments then you haven't been paying attention. The SBoHE has also tried to reach out. That is what the NCAA set up.

Are you against the D1 move? We would be with the U of Mary's, U of Mn. Crookston's,, Moorhead State's (MSUM) etc. It cost us over $1,000,000 the last 4 Frozen Four years. Are you under the impression the hockey coaches are against the D1 move? I thought staying D2 for other sports other than hockey was a better fit until the NCAA diluted D2 and it is now a glorified D3. The flagship university of the state should be a D1 school. We once were in the same division as Northern Iowa, Montana, UNLV, Boise State etc. We should have moved up when UNI and Montana did years ago. Even if we stayed D2, we would still need to resolve this.

The debate on the issue is full of so much misinformation about what our UND officials have the authority to do. It is hard to debate the issue when too many people don't have the facts. It is like the people who keep criticizing the natives for getting a

"free" education.

Kelly's most important task is not keeping the name. He job is to communicate to the tribes that UND still would like to keep the name and will continue to support NA progams and if the name is kept continue to use it with respect and class. He just like Presidents Starcher, Clifford, Baker and Kupchella have no authority over the tribal governments and neither does the SBoHE any more than you or I.

Very solid post.

[DamStrait]

...The Summit League didn't stick UND with this and UND has to bring the logo/Sioux issue to a conclusion regardless of the Summit...The SBoHE has also tried to reach out...

The Summit most certainly stuck their nose into this (where it does not belong). Do I blame the NCAA? Hell yes. The most valid criticism of the SBoHE is that they made the decision sooner than they had to (per the settlement with the NCAA), and it appears to have bought them absolutely nothing, as the Summit failed to muster even a yawn over the news. The whole process stinks and is far from transparent. If they had let this go through November, this would have been far easier for many (including myself) to accept. The long and the short of it is that we are not being dealt with plainly, and so no one involved gets any of the benefit of my doubt. Will I withhold donations because this? Probably not, which makes this all the more frustrating, because those responsible know they don't have to listen to those paying the freight - they know we will always support the university we love. All this over PC nonsense - it is beyond stupefying.

[Chewey]

Kelly was hired because he was the best applicant for the job. Almost every person involved in the interview process felt he was the best choice. Where did you get the idea he was hired for the D1 move? He was not. That is ultimelately his responsibility but only a small part. What does his support for the Summit have to do with the move? The Summit League didn't stick UND with this and UND has to bring the logo/Sioux issue to a conclusion regardless of the Summit. Have you spoken with him? Why don't you do that? He is very accessible. He was at the Frozen Five in his Sioux Logo Jersey speaking with whomever talked to him. What exactly do you think "UND leadership" should be doing? Is there someone who thinks the successful resolution of this rests anywhere other than the tribal governments?

If you don't think UND has tried to reach out to the tribal governments then you haven't been paying attention. The SBoHE has also tried to reach out. That is what the NCAA set up.

Are you against the D1 move? We would be with the U of Mary's, U of Mn. Crookston's,, Moorhead State's (MSUM) etc. It cost us over $1,000,000 the last 4 Frozen Four years. Are you under the impression the hockey coaches are against the D1 move? I thought staying D2 for other sports other than hockey was a better fit until the NCAA diluted D2 and it is now a glorified D3. The flagship university of the state should be a D1 school. We once were in the same division as Northern Iowa, Montana, UNLV, Boise State etc. We should have moved up when UNI and Montana did years ago. Even if we stayed D2, we would still need to resolve this.

The debate on the issue is full of so much misinformation about what our UND officials have the authority to do. It is hard to debate the issue when too many people don't have the facts. It is like the people who keep criticizing the natives for getting a

"free" education.

Kelly's most important task is not keeping the name. He job is to communicate to the tribes that UND still would like to keep the name and will continue to support NA progams and if the name is kept continue to use it with respect and class. He just like Presidents Starcher, Clifford, Baker and Kupchella have no authority over the tribal governments and neither does the SBoHE any more than you or I.

A significant part of Kelley's task is also to maintain good relations with the alumni, for obvious reasons. Not one peep out of him publicly (at least from what I've see) in support of the nickname which the vast majority of the alumni feel passionate about. He has failed miserably in this regard and that will come to bite the whole university in the ass.

[the green team]

Ira-

That was a great post- I've tried to lay it out, I wish I could have done so eloquently as you. It's so easy to rail against our administrators, as a few have really began to do on this site, when I've had a question I've found them to be incredibly accessible and very honest. I would say the reality is to direct some ire at the SBoHE, but where's the ire directed at those supporters at SR?-- Where were they 30,20,10 5, 2, years ago? There should be some accountability, but no-one dare charge anyone with that, because we need to tip toe around it so they'll continue to work at supporting the name at SR. How could anyone have been surprised that the NCAA did this a few years ago? Are people that unobservant & dense to see how things evolve and happen in todays world? That's why work on salvaging the nickname should have been done 20 years ago, it's called forward thinking. Other institutions saw this coming a long time ago, and they had their ducks in a row way better than we did. And what do we do? we act surprised, like we never saw it coming. Utterly pathetic, if we should be blaming people at all, it's those who failed to act a long time ago.

The point is all this finger pointing is useless, but again there are those here would love to tear it all down, because that's what their good at...and unfortunately they take sadistic pleasure in doing it. I refuse to latch onto that, for the sake of UND and all it's sports.

But I believe that SR will come out in favor of and guess what, the name and logo will remain. Boards can and do reverse their decisions. I believe that will be one of those times.

This is just conjecture, but I believe the SBoHE did what it did to force the tribal councils hand before the deadline. If that was the case, and the end result is retention of the name. Would those of you come on here and start thanking SBoHE officials, I seriously doubt it. Granted even if that is a tactic it would never would get out, and we wouldn't be the wiser.

[iramurphy]

The Summit most certainly stuck their nose into this (where it does not belong). Do I blame the NCAA? Hell yes. The most valid criticism of the SBoHE is that they made the decision sooner than they had to (per the settlement with the NCAA), and it appears to have bought them absolutely nothing, as the Summit failed to muster even a yawn over the news. The whole process stinks and is far from transparent. If they had let this go through November, this would have been far easier for many (including myself) to accept. The long and the short of it is that we are not being dealt with plainly, and so no one involved gets any of the benefit of my doubt. Will I withhold donations because this? Probably not, which makes this all the more frustrating, because those responsible know they don't have to listen to those paying the freight - they know we will always support the university we love. All this over PC nonsense - it is beyond stupefying.

I agree the SBoHE should have waited. Those responsible? The NCAA, the late Myles Brand, actviists both Native and Non-Native, the PC crowd etc. The Summit is not responsible for this and I understand the wish to get into a conference. The Summit is irrelevant in this issue other than they want the issue resolved. Approval by the tribes is not dependent on what the Summit decison might be. The logo issue is a pain in the butt for anyone having to deal with it on a regular basis and if resolved, the Summit will be able to tell the PC crowd it was OK's by the Tribes/NCAA or it is going away. I would think they will not want to get involved in the issue in the future if those criteria are met. Not unreasonable and it is their league.

I don't think much of the Summit but it is better than nothing and if UND, NDSU, USD and SDSU are in it that is a core of very solid former D2 powers who can only improve the league. What difference does it make what they do as long as we eventually get consideration if there are no better options?

Somehow the opposition has been able to fractionate supporters to where we have UND hockey vs. all other non-hockey sports in some circles, others blaming FB supporters, Summit entry vs. non-entry and UND people shooting ourselves in the foot by turning on our own administration and our own teams and athletes. I am an old soldier. Don't give your adversaries any unearned advantage. Stay united and stay the course as best we can. What we read in the papers and what politicians tell us may not have all of the info and that info may not always be completely accurate.

[choyt3]

Not media stories per se, but three letters in the Herald today from UND Hockey Letter winners.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/tag/...ghting%20sioux/

[xI Hammer Ix]

Not media stories per se, but three letters in the Herald today from UND Hockey Letter winners.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/tag/...ghting%20sioux/

I wish the "outsiders" would see how much we respect the name and imagery. We may not know everything about the Native culture, but we know enough to know a small sample of the honor, tradition and pride in which the represent themselves. It is that in which we try to aspire.

[Blackburn87]

Not media stories per se, but three letters in the Herald today from UND Hockey Letter winners.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/tag/...ghting%20sioux/

Thanks for posting this. What powerful letters! I hope the Powers-that-be are listening.

[Ray77]

Not media stories per se, but three letters in the Herald today from UND Hockey Letter winners.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/tag/...ghting%20sioux/

Wow, is this sweet or what? From Tarek Howard's letter:

I remember Jim Archibald

[choyt3]

Young fan

[dakotadan]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/158728/

But Jace and the rest of the family

[Fetch]

Jace is my kinda guy - I too have a grandson about the same age who will feel the same way - one of his first words was Sioux - one of his 1st sentences LETS GO SIOUX - I point at the Logo & He Yells SIOUX

[Blackheart]

Kelly was hired because he was the best applicant for the job. Almost every person involved in the interview process felt he was the best choice. Where did you get the idea he was hired for the D1 move? He was not. That is ultimelately his responsibility but only a small part. What does his support for the Summit have to do with the move? The Summit League didn't stick UND with this and UND has to bring the logo/Sioux issue to a conclusion regardless of the Summit. Have you spoken with him? Why don't you do that? He is very accessible. He was at the Frozen Five in his Sioux Logo Jersey speaking with whomever talked to him. What exactly do you think "UND leadership" should be doing? Is there someone who thinks the successful resolution of this rests anywhere other than the tribal governments?

If you don't think UND has tried to reach out to the tribal governments then you haven't been paying attention. The SBoHE has also tried to reach out. That is what the NCAA set up.

Are you against the D1 move? We would be with the U of Mary's, U of Mn. Crookston's,, Moorhead State's (MSUM) etc. It cost us over $1,000,000 the last 4 Frozen Four years. Are you under the impression the hockey coaches are against the D1 move? I thought staying D2 for other sports other than hockey was a better fit until the NCAA diluted D2 and it is now a glorified D3. The flagship university of the state should be a D1 school. We once were in the same division as Northern Iowa, Montana, UNLV, Boise State etc. We should have moved up when UNI and Montana did years ago. Even if we stayed D2, we would still need to resolve this.

The debate on the issue is full of so much misinformation about what our UND officials have the authority to do. It is hard to debate the issue when too many people don't have the facts. It is like the people who keep criticizing the natives for getting a

"free" education.

Kelly's most important task is not keeping the name. He job is to communicate to the tribes that UND still would like to keep the name and will continue to support NA progams and if the name is kept continue to use it with respect and class. He just like Presidents Starcher, Clifford, Baker and Kupchella have no authority over the tribal governments and neither does the SBoHE any more than you or I.

Well stated opinion Ira Murphy.

MY opinion is that the current UND leadership didn't give 2 shits about the nickname. They were so 'excited about their new marketing opportunity' (Kelley's words, not mine) with a new logo/branding that it was much more convenient to dump 80 years of tradition to facilitate the move to D1.

I'm glad he wore a Sioux jersey at the F5; it's a good way to get recognized by hockey fans.

I understand Kelley does not control the decision making process at Spirit Lake or Standing Rock but his lack of communication to students/alumni/etc. left people wondering just exactly what his position was. He was not alone in his lack of opionion on the issue; the rest of North Dakota's leaders/politicians seem to be blaming each other for the current state of affairs.

I have had communication with him; my initial email 11 months ago went unanswered but he did respond to one I sent several weeks ago. After waiting nearly a year, his standard form email just didn't seem to carry much weight.

If the Native Americans decide they do not want UND to continue with the nickname, I can live with that. Having the SBoHE end the process early is not acceptable. From what I've read this has been a difficult process, but there's 6 months to the finish line...why give up early?

Go Sioux!

[MplsBison]

That is great to hear!

UND needs to praise these kinds of fans and dump the low-lifes who are threatening to withhold support if the nickname is changed.

[SIOUXPR]

Jace is my kinda guy - I too have a grandson about the same age who will feel the same way - one of his first words was Sioux - one of his 1st sentences LETS GO SIOUX - I point at the Logo & He Yells SIOUX

What's funny is the way the 4 year old is acting is the same way that most posters on this board have been acting. Throwing a temper tantrum and crying in the corner when you don't get your way.

Boo Hoo, I'm going to stop giving money to UND. Boo Hoo, I'm going to keep complaining about the vocal minority even though the silent majority hasn't done $hit for the Sioux name until now. Boo Hoo, let's cut all Native American programs at UND and quit giving the NA students a free ride (lie). Boo Hoo, I'm going to stop going to Sioux casinos out of spite and deny them my collection of nickels.

Some on this board need to grow up and fight for what you think your rights are. At the same time, know that every disparaging thing that you have said and continue to say about Native Americans and UND only adds fuel to the vocal minority and the oppositions fire.

[Oxbow6]

Boo Hoo, I'm going to stop giving money to UND. Boo Hoo, I'm going to keep complaining about the vocal minority even though the silent majority hasn't done $hit for the Sioux name until now. Boo Hoo, let's cut all Native American programs at UND and quit giving the NA students a free ride (lie). Boo Hoo, I'm going to stop going to Sioux casinos out of spite and deny them my collection of nickels.

Some on this board need to grow up and fight for what you think your rights are. At the same time, know that every disparaging thing that you have said and continue to say about Native Americans and UND only adds fuel to the vocal minority and the oppositions fire.

Whose this Boo Hoo person you keep referencing???

Thanks for another "insightful" post!?

I have a hunch what you think are "your rights" are vastly different than most on this site.

[The Sicatoka]

What's funny is the way the 4 year old is acting is the same way that most posters on this board have been acting. Throwing a temper tantrum and crying in the corner when you don't get your way.

Boo Hoo, I'm going to stop giving money to UND. Boo Hoo, I'm going to keep complaining about the vocal minority even though the silent majority hasn't done $hit for the Sioux name until now. Boo Hoo, let's cut all Native American programs at UND and quit giving the NA students a free ride (lie). Boo Hoo, I'm going to stop going to Sioux casinos out of spite and deny them my collection of nickels.

Some on this board need to grow up and fight for what you think your rights are. At the same time, know that every disparaging thing that you have said and continue to say about Native Americans and UND only adds fuel to the vocal minority and the oppositions fire.

Rather than lecturing, shouldn't you be leading the way by changing your login name and avatar to not include the word "Sioux" and the old, geometric Indan head logo?

[JLP157]

What's funny is the way the 4 year old is acting is the same way that most posters on this board have been acting. Throwing a temper tantrum and crying in the corner when you don't get your way.

Boo Hoo, I'm going to stop giving money to UND. Boo Hoo, I'm going to keep complaining about the vocal minority even though the silent majority hasn't done $hit for the Sioux name until now. Boo Hoo, let's cut all Native American programs at UND and quit giving the NA students a free ride (lie). Boo Hoo, I'm going to stop going to Sioux casinos out of spite and deny them my collection of nickels.

Some on this board need to grow up and fight for what you think your rights are. At the same time, know that every disparaging thing that you have said and continue to say about Native Americans and UND only adds fuel to the vocal minority and the oppositions fire.

Yet another verbal banquet by SIOUXPR....At least the 4 year old didn't interject race into his temper tantrum like you did with that brilliant comment about "the only freedom you've lost is your freedom to live under a White President".... And what's the gig with your Avatar and name? Shouldn't you be feeling shame for using the "Sioux" name and former logo?

Pot....Kettle....?