jk Posted March 3 Posted March 3 To me, the NCHC has fewer weak teams, but is easier to win because there are fewer top teams as well. You're basically competing with Denver, SC and UMD for the title every year. In the WCHA you had to also gain more points than WI and especially MN. 3 Quote
rochsioux Posted March 3 Posted March 3 Hakstol: Made tourney in all 11 seasons. 7 frozen fours, no championships. Overall tourney record of 17-11. There were only 2 years where they didn’t win at least one tournament game. Berry: Made tourney in 6 of 9 seasons* 1 frozen four, 1 championship. Overall tourney record of 5-3. There have been 5 years where they didn’t win a tournament game, not including the Covid year or this year. * Giving him credit for making the 2020 tourney that never occurred due to Covid. That team was a lock. Also includes the current season. Frozen four and overall record subject to change with this seasons results. Hakstol was one win from a championship his first season while Berry got it done in his first year. 1 1 Quote
Big A HG Posted March 4 Posted March 4 The neat thing about conference title is you can still win one after losing games. That's what makes the NCAA tourneys so difficult. Hak was a bit snake-bitten and it surely wasn't because of his coaching the team wasn't able to win one. You don't get to 7 Frozen Fours in 11 years as a bad coach. The thing is, a down year for Hak was still making an NCAA tourney and possibly even winning a game or two and making a Frozen Four. Berry was able to get us over the hurdle in 2016, but also started five NHLers and had more on the bench for that title run...of which all those players committed to UND to play for Hakstol. I find it hard to believe Hak also wouldn't have gotten over that hurdle. Once Berry started recruiting his own players, we seldom see the blue chippers nor as much of the international recognition as when we had Hak. That's why Hakstol was able to get an NHL job from college after 30+ years since Badger Bob. The most common outcome in the Hakstol era was a Frozen Four semi-final loss. The most common outcome of a season under Berry is missing the NCAA tourney. The MacNaughton/Penrose was never the number one goal for Hakstol. He broke his teams down at the start of each year in order to rebuild them over the course of the year with the team peaking towards the playoffs. Berry seems to want to get out of the gates hot and fast and try to keep the team there, but the team seldom seems to change much over the course of the season. Either they're good or they're not. I'm not sure which way is right or wrong, but I find it more fun to have chances at Frozen Fours, even if we ultimately lose them all, than win regular season trophies...but that's just me. The Hakstol era was way more fun in the end. 1 Quote
InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted March 4 Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Big A HG said: Hak was a bit snake-bitten and it surely wasn't because of his coaching the team wasn't able to win one. I find it hard to believe Hak also wouldn't have gotten over that hurdle. Playing devils advocate, Why would hak have gotten it done in 2015-16 when he didn’t with Duncan oshie toews zajac Stafford, the pony line, etc? I’d say it’s a rather large logical leap to assume in parallel universe hak would have gotten it done when the one knock against him was that his teams didn’t get it done for over a decade in the frozen four, no matter how good they were in the regular season. And I am of the opinion he was a great college coach(but so is Berry). It’s incredible to me how this board has revisionist history regarding Haks legacy. After every frozen four letdown the cries for him to be fired were louder and louder. And after 2015 they were at a fever pitch. Then he went to the nhl and proved his legitimacy and now everyone seems to conveniently forget how chastised he was while at UND. 4 Quote
Scratch Posted March 4 Posted March 4 How can anyone here entertain the idea that the NCHC might be harder to win than the WCHA? The NCHC competition is Denver and St Cloud-the WCHA also had that plus the gophs who won the conference all the time. How many NCHCs do the Sioux have if they’re in the same league as the gophers who won like every big ten title at the same time? Undoubtedly fewer Quote
Dustin Posted March 4 Posted March 4 All of Hakstol’s teams left me in heartbreak. I mean how many F-ing times do you need to get it done?? Once we finally won in 2016 (I sometimes still have to think “did that really happen?”) it was such elation that what happened in hockey after that didn’t matter as much to me. Berry’s had other teams that could have gotten the job done as well but ran into circumstances that I lay no blame on the coach (2017 bad reffing, 2020 pandemic, 2021 five overtimes). Now for Berry’s other seasons, yeah there’s been some clunkers in the style that Hakstol never had. I feel that’s how things “normally” go in the real world of athletics. Winning 1 semifinal game in 7 chances over 11 seasons isn’t “normal.” Statistics/analytics would show that you would win more than once (I would think). 1 2 Quote
thUNDer Posted March 4 Posted March 4 Revisionist historians are a perplexing group. Can’t seem to adhere to the adage of history is history, the future a mystery……. Enjoy the present the program continues gifting & regifting. Quote
stoneySIOUX Posted March 4 Posted March 4 19 hours ago, jk said: Discussion is ok. I'm a fan of both guys, but regarding league titles, I'd say Hak coached in a tougher league (WCHA with MN and WI) for most of his years. No way! Anchorage and Tech.... there are no Anchorage's or Tech's in the NCHC. 2 Quote
The Sicatoka Posted March 4 Posted March 4 21 conference regular season titles over 8 decades. 8 national titles over that same timeframe. My ice cream is too cold! 2 1 Quote
Dustin Posted March 4 Posted March 4 8 hours ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said: And after 2015 they were at a fever pitch. I remember that after Hak took the NHL job I told my dad that we’d finally be able to win the national championship. I was excited to see him go. That sounds harsh, but the common denominator for all the failures on the biggest stage were him. 1 5 Quote
gfhockey Posted March 4 Posted March 4 15 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said: No way! Anchorage and Tech.... there are no Anchorage's or Tech's in the NCHC. One could argue Miami? Quote
Blackheart Posted March 4 Posted March 4 29 minutes ago, Dustin said: I remember that after Hak took the NHL job I told my dad that we’d finally be able to win the national championship. I was excited to see him go. That sounds harsh, but the common denominator for all the failures on the biggest stage were him. ouch! Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted March 4 Posted March 4 17 minutes ago, gfhockey said: One could argue Miami? Miami. That's it. The fifth place team in our eight team league pushed us to the limit at home this past weekend and they are on the bubble for making the NCAA tournament. Heck, even Miami can steal points from you if you don't show up ready to play. Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted March 4 Posted March 4 54 minutes ago, Dustin said: I remember that after Hak took the NHL job I told my dad that we’d finally be able to win the national championship. I was excited to see him go. That sounds harsh, but the common denominator for all the failures on the biggest stage were him. Harsh, but true. When the same thing happens over and over again, you can't blame it all on bad luck. That being said, this year's team looks ready to make a serious push for #9. 1 2 Quote
The Sicatoka Posted March 4 Posted March 4 29 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said: The fifth place team in our eight team league pushed us to the limit at home this past weekend and they are on the bubble for making the NCAA tournament. Does anyone really want to open league playoffs with likely seventh place Duluth? Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted March 4 Posted March 4 Just now, The Sicatoka said: Does anyone really want to open league playoffs with likely seventh place Duluth? No, not at all. They can steal games from you even though they have almost zero offensive talent up front. Which further strengthens my point that the NCHC is the toughest conference top to bottom we have ever been in. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted March 4 Posted March 4 1 minute ago, fightingsioux4life said: No, not at all. They can steal games from you even though they have almost zero offensive talent up front. Which further strengthens my point that the NCHC is the toughest conference top to bottom we have ever been in. And your prize for avoiding Duluth will likely be Omaha or Western. 1 1 Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted March 4 Posted March 4 Just now, The Sicatoka said: And your prize for avoiding Duluth will likely be Omaha or Western. Seriously though, that is what made clinching first place extra important. We get to play Miami instead of those other teams you mentioned. 3 Quote
Popular Post Walsh Hall Posted March 4 Popular Post Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Dustin said: I remember that after Hak took the NHL job I told my dad that we’d finally be able to win the national championship. I was excited to see him go. That sounds harsh, but the common denominator for all the failures on the biggest stage were him. The common denominator is that even the top team going into the NCAA tournament has around a 1 in 10 chance of winning the title in the current state of the game. Blaming that on the coach is frankly idiotic. 2 3 Quote
TwamleyShuffle Posted March 4 Posted March 4 3 minutes ago, Walsh Hall said: The common denominator is that even the top team going into the NCAA tournament has around a 1 in 10 chance of winning the title in the current state of the game. Blaming that on the coach is frankly idiotic. Can we get a numbers person to determine how many times in the last 10 years the number one overall seed won the natty. For that matter, how about the last ten years and getting a top four seed. Kind regards TwamleyShuffle Quote
siouxforce19 Posted March 4 Posted March 4 11 minutes ago, TwamleyShuffle said: Can we get a numbers person to determine how many times in the last 10 years the number one overall seed won the natty. For that matter, how about the last ten years and getting a top four seed. Kind regards TwamleyShuffle Just based on my memory: 2014 - Union, No - was a top 4 2015 - Providence, No 2016 -UND, No, was a top 4 2017 - Denver, Yes 2018 - Duluth, No 2019 - Duluth, No 2020 —————— 2021 - UMass, No, I think they were a 2 seed? 2022 - Denver, No, might’ve been a top 4 seed 2023 - Quinnipiac, No, was a top 4 Quote
Dustin Posted March 4 Posted March 4 The thing is, UND wasn't even the top team going into the tournament during the Hak years. UND made it to the Frozen Four as all four different seeds, and was never the overall top seed. 1 seed in a regional: 2008* (3rd overall seed), 2011* (2nd overall seed), 2012 (4th overall seed), 2015* (2nd overall seed) 2 seed in a regional: 2005*, 2006*, 2009, 2010, 2013 3 seed in a regional: 2007* 4 seed in a regional: 2014* *denotes Frozen Four year 1 Quote
dustnyou Posted March 4 Posted March 4 46 minutes ago, Walsh Hall said: The common denominator is that even the top team going into the NCAA tournament has around a 1 in 10 chance of winning the title in the current state of the game. Blaming that on the coach is frankly idiotic. Unless it’s Bob Motzco. He flat out puckered up, choked and got out-coached in last years national championship game with the most talented team in the nation. That game was the rare 100% coaching blunder imo 1 2 Quote
stoneySIOUX Posted March 4 Posted March 4 1 hour ago, gfhockey said: One could argue Miami? 1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said: Miami. That's it. The fifth place team in our eight team league pushed us to the limit at home this past weekend and they are on the bubble for making the NCAA tournament. Heck, even Miami can steal points from you if you don't show up ready to play. Exactly. We beat Tech 11-2 in 2011. We tied Miami this season. Quote
stoneySIOUX Posted March 4 Posted March 4 1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said: Does anyone really want to open league playoffs with likely seventh place Duluth? I mean, I wouldn't mind to end their season 1 Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.