nodakvindy Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, gfhockey said: Yes we know how many wins in ncaa tourney since then To be fair, Berry has never lost an NCAA tourney game in regulation. Puck luck is a funny thing in a one and done and we don't have any clunkers where we didn't show up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A HG Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 24 minutes ago, nodakvindy said: To be fair, Berry has never lost an NCAA tourney game in regulation. Puck luck is a funny thing in a one and done and we don't have any clunkers where we didn't show up. You also can't lose in regulation if you don't play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodakvindy Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 12 minutes ago, Big A HG said: You also can't lose in regulation if you don't play. Thanks for the insight. I get that. Yet despite missing the tournament 3 times, we still have a natty during Berry's reign as well as as the what if of 2020. To act like he won a natty in year 1 and has been uncompetitive since is just wrong. His 2 best teams since 2016 faced outcomes that had no precedent. We'll see what happens this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 hours ago, gfhockey said: Yes we know how many wins in ncaa tourney since then 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 hours ago, nodakvindy said: UND has typically won its nattys by knocking on the front door as a conference champ vs sneaking in the back by just getting lucky and banking on 2 good weekends. Fun fact, UND is last independent to win a natty. It’s not very often I learn something new about UND hockey but that’s a cool stat. Thanks for sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted March 3 Popular Post Share Posted March 3 I hate to keep this discussion going because it’s feeding a few known trolls but banners are what define this program. We can agree on that. We love wins and success but we like to see banner raising ceremonies to measure success. League titles and NCAA are the big ones. Hakstol who just coached his 500th NHL game was 3 for 11 on league titles and 0 for 11 on NCAA titles. Berry has won 5 of 9 league titles and is 1 for 9 on NCAA titles. Can we all agree Hakstol was a pretty damn good college coach which has translated to the best league in the world? Then, by extension can we agree Berry is also a damn good coach as he’s raised more of those banners than Hak? I’m not saying he’s definitively better but he’s on the same level. 1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Discussion is ok. I'm a fan of both guys, but regarding league titles, I'd say Hak coached in a tougher league (WCHA with MN and WI) for most of his years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 49 minutes ago, jk said: Discussion is ok. I'm a fan of both guys, but regarding league titles, I'd say Hak coached in a tougher league (WCHA with MN and WI) for most of his years. The WCHA was tougher than the NCHC? I don't know about that. The old WCHA was a great league, but there was some deadwood at the bottom. The NCHC is the deepest league top to bottom I have ever seen in this sport. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 32 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said: The WCHA was tougher than the NCHC? I don't know about that. The old WCHA was a great league, but there was some deadwood at the bottom. The NCHC is the deepest league top to bottom I have ever seen in this sport. College hockey as a whole is more balanced, which is why blue bloods will miss the tournament here and there and won’t win championships every five years. BC is finally back, which most people used as a comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 To me, the NCHC has fewer weak teams, but is easier to win because there are fewer top teams as well. You're basically competing with Denver, SC and UMD for the title every year. In the WCHA you had to also gain more points than WI and especially MN. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rochsioux Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Hakstol: Made tourney in all 11 seasons. 7 frozen fours, no championships. Overall tourney record of 17-11. There were only 2 years where they didn’t win at least one tournament game. Berry: Made tourney in 6 of 9 seasons* 1 frozen four, 1 championship. Overall tourney record of 5-3. There have been 5 years where they didn’t win a tournament game, not including the Covid year or this year. * Giving him credit for making the 2020 tourney that never occurred due to Covid. That team was a lock. Also includes the current season. Frozen four and overall record subject to change with this seasons results. Hakstol was one win from a championship his first season while Berry got it done in his first year. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A HG Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 The neat thing about conference title is you can still win one after losing games. That's what makes the NCAA tourneys so difficult. Hak was a bit snake-bitten and it surely wasn't because of his coaching the team wasn't able to win one. You don't get to 7 Frozen Fours in 11 years as a bad coach. The thing is, a down year for Hak was still making an NCAA tourney and possibly even winning a game or two and making a Frozen Four. Berry was able to get us over the hurdle in 2016, but also started five NHLers and had more on the bench for that title run...of which all those players committed to UND to play for Hakstol. I find it hard to believe Hak also wouldn't have gotten over that hurdle. Once Berry started recruiting his own players, we seldom see the blue chippers nor as much of the international recognition as when we had Hak. That's why Hakstol was able to get an NHL job from college after 30+ years since Badger Bob. The most common outcome in the Hakstol era was a Frozen Four semi-final loss. The most common outcome of a season under Berry is missing the NCAA tourney. The MacNaughton/Penrose was never the number one goal for Hakstol. He broke his teams down at the start of each year in order to rebuild them over the course of the year with the team peaking towards the playoffs. Berry seems to want to get out of the gates hot and fast and try to keep the team there, but the team seldom seems to change much over the course of the season. Either they're good or they're not. I'm not sure which way is right or wrong, but I find it more fun to have chances at Frozen Fours, even if we ultimately lose them all, than win regular season trophies...but that's just me. The Hakstol era was way more fun in the end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Big A HG said: Hak was a bit snake-bitten and it surely wasn't because of his coaching the team wasn't able to win one. I find it hard to believe Hak also wouldn't have gotten over that hurdle. Playing devils advocate, Why would hak have gotten it done in 2015-16 when he didn’t with Duncan oshie toews zajac Stafford, the pony line, etc? I’d say it’s a rather large logical leap to assume in parallel universe hak would have gotten it done when the one knock against him was that his teams didn’t get it done for over a decade in the frozen four, no matter how good they were in the regular season. And I am of the opinion he was a great college coach(but so is Berry). It’s incredible to me how this board has revisionist history regarding Haks legacy. After every frozen four letdown the cries for him to be fired were louder and louder. And after 2015 they were at a fever pitch. Then he went to the nhl and proved his legitimacy and now everyone seems to conveniently forget how chastised he was while at UND. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratch Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 How can anyone here entertain the idea that the NCHC might be harder to win than the WCHA? The NCHC competition is Denver and St Cloud-the WCHA also had that plus the gophs who won the conference all the time. How many NCHCs do the Sioux have if they’re in the same league as the gophers who won like every big ten title at the same time? Undoubtedly fewer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 All of Hakstol’s teams left me in heartbreak. I mean how many F-ing times do you need to get it done?? Once we finally won in 2016 (I sometimes still have to think “did that really happen?”) it was such elation that what happened in hockey after that didn’t matter as much to me. Berry’s had other teams that could have gotten the job done as well but ran into circumstances that I lay no blame on the coach (2017 bad reffing, 2020 pandemic, 2021 five overtimes). Now for Berry’s other seasons, yeah there’s been some clunkers in the style that Hakstol never had. I feel that’s how things “normally” go in the real world of athletics. Winning 1 semifinal game in 7 chances over 11 seasons isn’t “normal.” Statistics/analytics would show that you would win more than once (I would think). 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thUNDer Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Revisionist historians are a perplexing group. Can’t seem to adhere to the adage of history is history, the future a mystery……. Enjoy the present the program continues gifting & regifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneySIOUX Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 19 hours ago, jk said: Discussion is ok. I'm a fan of both guys, but regarding league titles, I'd say Hak coached in a tougher league (WCHA with MN and WI) for most of his years. No way! Anchorage and Tech.... there are no Anchorage's or Tech's in the NCHC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 21 conference regular season titles over 8 decades. 8 national titles over that same timeframe. My ice cream is too cold! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 8 hours ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said: And after 2015 they were at a fever pitch. I remember that after Hak took the NHL job I told my dad that we’d finally be able to win the national championship. I was excited to see him go. That sounds harsh, but the common denominator for all the failures on the biggest stage were him. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 15 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said: No way! Anchorage and Tech.... there are no Anchorage's or Tech's in the NCHC. One could argue Miami? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 29 minutes ago, Dustin said: I remember that after Hak took the NHL job I told my dad that we’d finally be able to win the national championship. I was excited to see him go. That sounds harsh, but the common denominator for all the failures on the biggest stage were him. ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 17 minutes ago, gfhockey said: One could argue Miami? Miami. That's it. The fifth place team in our eight team league pushed us to the limit at home this past weekend and they are on the bubble for making the NCAA tournament. Heck, even Miami can steal points from you if you don't show up ready to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 54 minutes ago, Dustin said: I remember that after Hak took the NHL job I told my dad that we’d finally be able to win the national championship. I was excited to see him go. That sounds harsh, but the common denominator for all the failures on the biggest stage were him. Harsh, but true. When the same thing happens over and over again, you can't blame it all on bad luck. That being said, this year's team looks ready to make a serious push for #9. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 29 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said: The fifth place team in our eight team league pushed us to the limit at home this past weekend and they are on the bubble for making the NCAA tournament. Does anyone really want to open league playoffs with likely seventh place Duluth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Just now, The Sicatoka said: Does anyone really want to open league playoffs with likely seventh place Duluth? No, not at all. They can steal games from you even though they have almost zero offensive talent up front. Which further strengthens my point that the NCHC is the toughest conference top to bottom we have ever been in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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