UND @ UNI 10/21/2023

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

ummmmmmmmmm....that's me!

 

1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

@jdub27 should at least get the names right if he's going to scold and preach. 

Yes, I'm aware it was a different poster which I was I said I hope it was more in-depth than that high bar of qualification.

On to next week.....

[Dustin]

I know this won’t be a popular take, but I’m just trying to think about this logically.  There’s been a lot of disgust at starting Tommy for the 3rd quarter.    Keep in mind, this analysis only works when considering what we knew at halftime, not anything in the second half.  At halftime, UND was only down 17, well within the reach of making a comeback, so long as some things go your way.  UND was going to start with the ball.  Score on that drive.  Get a stop.  Force a turnover.  Who would have the best chances to lead a comeback - a 4 year starter or a backup who has only played a few reps?  I’m not ragging on the backups, I’m just asking what evidence is available to think they would’ve been the best candidate to lead a comeback?  I know Tommy had a bad half, but that doesn’t mean the second half will go the same way.  Putting a new guy in there at that point says, to me, that we are not expecting to win.

I’ll hang up and listen. 

[geaux_sioux]

13 minutes ago, Dustin said:

I know this won’t be a popular take, but I’m just trying to think about this logically.  There’s been a lot of disgust at starting Tommy for the 3rd quarter.    Keep in mind, this analysis only works when considering what we knew at halftime, not anything in the second half.  At halftime, UND was only down 17, well within the reach of making a comeback, so long as some things go your way.  UND was going to start with the ball.  Score on that drive.  Get a stop.  Force a turnover.  Who would have the best chances to lead a comeback - a 4 year starter or a backup who has only played a few reps?  I’m not ragging on the backups, I’m just asking what evidence is available to think they would’ve been the best candidate to lead a comeback?  I know Tommy had a bad half, but that doesn’t mean the second half will go the same way.  Putting a new guy in there at that point says, to me, that we are not expecting to win.

I’ll hang up and listen. 

Pretty obviously that Tommy would start the second half. As that half went on though, he just still wasn’t getting it done. Bubbas just not the kind of coach to pull a qb like that I guess. Wish he had a little more of that Dean Blais in him. A little gambler in him.

[SWSiouxMN]

53 minutes ago, Dustin said:

I know this won’t be a popular take, but I’m just trying to think about this logically.  There’s been a lot of disgust at starting Tommy for the 3rd quarter.    Keep in mind, this analysis only works when considering what we knew at halftime, not anything in the second half.  At halftime, UND was only down 17, well within the reach of making a comeback, so long as some things go your way.  UND was going to start with the ball.  Score on that drive.  Get a stop.  Force a turnover.  Who would have the best chances to lead a comeback - a 4 year starter or a backup who has only played a few reps?  I’m not ragging on the backups, I’m just asking what evidence is available to think they would’ve been the best candidate to lead a comeback?  I know Tommy had a bad half, but that doesn’t mean the second half will go the same way.  Putting a new guy in there at that point says, to me, that we are not expecting to win.

I’ll hang up and listen. 

Sometimes you just need to shock the system. 

[Mama Sue]

Or as my grandson says to his 4 year old sister (who doesn’t understand)

MAN UP!

[SIOUXFAN97]

On 10/23/2023 at 7:08 PM, Dustin said:

I know this won’t be a popular take, but I’m just trying to think about this logically.  There’s been a lot of disgust at starting Tommy for the 3rd quarter.    Keep in mind, this analysis only works when considering what we knew at halftime, not anything in the second half.  At halftime, UND was only down 17, well within the reach of making a comeback, so long as some things go your way.  UND was going to start with the ball.  Score on that drive.  Get a stop.  Force a turnover.  Who would have the best chances to lead a comeback - a 4 year starter or a backup who has only played a few reps?  I’m not ragging on the backups, I’m just asking what evidence is available to think they would’ve been the best candidate to lead a comeback?  I know Tommy had a bad half, but that doesn’t mean the second half will go the same way.  Putting a new guy in there at that point says, to me, that we are not expecting to win.

I’ll hang up and listen. 

 took over starting quarterback duties just before halftime of the Coyotes’ Dakota Days contest against No. 14 Southern Illinois … entered trailing 21-7 and rallied South Dakota to a 27-24 victory 

[UND Football Fan]

Here is my take about taking Tommy out. Maybe if he was takin out after the opening drive of the 3rd. Trey comes in and rally’s team to a win. Or maybe we lose.

Another is that Tommy would be p!ssed off and be more focused more resilient next time. Or the team rallies, saying we cannot let out QB down. 
 

I don’t know the psyche of our players or what goes on in the locker room. Our coaches would know more about motivating them. Bottom line players have to believe and make their own energy on the road.
 

Focus one play at a time…..
Historical note, 1979 Monday Night Kenny throws pick 6 and Raiders down 35-14 in 3rd. Flores sends in Plunkett and Stabler waves him off and later says. I got us into this mess, and I’m going to get us out of it. 4 TD’s later Raiders win. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

8 hours ago, UND Football Fan said:

Here is my take about taking Tommy out. Maybe if he was takin out after the opening drive of the 3rd. Trey comes in and rally’s team to a win. Or maybe we lose.

Another is that Tommy would be p!ssed off and be more focused more resilient next time. Or the team rallies, saying we cannot let out QB down. 
 

I don’t know the psyche of our players or what goes on in the locker room. Our coaches would know more about motivating them. Bottom line players have to believe and make their own energy on the road.
 

Focus one play at a time…..
Historical note, 1979 Monday Night Kenny throws pick 6 and Raiders down 35-14 in 3rd. Flores sends in Plunkett and Stabler waves him off and later says. I got us into this mess, and I’m going to get us out of it. 4 TD’s later Raiders win. 

Tommy isn’t a DI championship caliber qb. He’s a game manager who has played a long time (lots of game experience). Protects the ball.
 

But he doesn’t have top end arm talent and he isn’t athletic enough to make big game changing plays against good teams. He has led UND to 7-4 and 5-6 seasons and played a long time. He’ll be in the “record books”, but he will long be remembered as epitomizing average average “Bubba ball” in my opinion. UND goes 3-1 or 2-2 these next 4 games and  is right back at 7-4 again it seems like with good ol’ Tommy gun and Bubba ball. Change is glacial around these parts, and that is not a good thing. 

[gundy1124]

On 10/23/2023 at 7:08 PM, Dustin said:

I know this won’t be a popular take, but I’m just trying to think about this logically.  There’s been a lot of disgust at starting Tommy for the 3rd quarter.    Keep in mind, this analysis only works when considering what we knew at halftime, not anything in the second half.  At halftime, UND was only down 17, well within the reach of making a comeback, so long as some things go your way.  UND was going to start with the ball.  Score on that drive.  Get a stop.  Force a turnover.  Who would have the best chances to lead a comeback - a 4 year starter or a backup who has only played a few reps?  I’m not ragging on the backups, I’m just asking what evidence is available to think they would’ve been the best candidate to lead a comeback?  I know Tommy had a bad half, but that doesn’t mean the second half will go the same way.  Putting a new guy in there at that point says, to me, that we are not expecting to win.

I’ll hang up and listen. 

It's not unheard of to make a switch.  Does Tommy have any comebacks in the past 3 years?  I think he's either hot or cold and rides that through the entire game.  Tough comparison but it was the National Championship game and the starter was 25-2 in his career, and the back-up had no competitive playing time.  What a Ballzy call!!

The Alabama Crimson Tide won the 2017 college football national championship on Monday night, beating the Georgia Bulldogs in overtime, 26-23, in Atlanta at the Mercedes-Benz Superdome.

It was a game filled with big moments. But undoubtedly the biggest decision in the game came at halftime, when Alabama head coach Nick Saban choose to replace starting quarterback Jalen Hurts with true freshman Tua Tagovailoa after the Tide got out to a flat start on offense.

When Tagovailoa came out for Alabama's first drive of the second half, many were left confused by the move. Hurts was 25-2 in his career as a starter, and the idea of giving a true freshman his first competitive playing time in the national championship against one of the best defenses in college football seems like a recipe for disaster.

But Saban knew what he was doing.

[geaux_sioux]

11 hours ago, UND Football Fan said:

Here is my take about taking Tommy out. Maybe if he was takin out after the opening drive of the 3rd. Trey comes in and rally’s team to a win. Or maybe we lose.

Another is that Tommy would be p!ssed off and be more focused more resilient next time. Or the team rallies, saying we cannot let out QB down. 
 

I don’t know the psyche of our players or what goes on in the locker room. Our coaches would know more about motivating them. Bottom line players have to believe and make their own energy on the road.
 

Focus one play at a time…..
Historical note, 1979 Monday Night Kenny throws pick 6 and Raiders down 35-14 in 3rd. Flores sends in Plunkett and Stabler waves him off and later says. I got us into this mess, and I’m going to get us out of it. 4 TD’s later Raiders win. 

Nothing motivates guys like the bench. 

Stabler was a dog though and his team knew he was a warrior. I have my doubts that Tommy moves the needle for his teammates like that and the record shows it. Have we had any comebacks with Tommy?

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, gundy1124 said:

It's not unheard of to make a switch.  Does Tommy have any comebacks in the past 3 years?  I think he's either hot or cold and rides that through the entire game.  Tough comparison but it was the National Championship game and the starter was 25-2 in his career, and the back-up had no competitive playing time.  What a Ballzy call!!

The Alabama Crimson Tide won the 2017 college football national championship on Monday night, beating the Georgia Bulldogs in overtime, 26-23, in Atlanta at the Mercedes-Benz Superdome.

It was a game filled with big moments. But undoubtedly the biggest decision in the game came at halftime, when Alabama head coach Nick Saban choose to replace starting quarterback Jalen Hurts with true freshman Tua Tagovailoa after the Tide got out to a flat start on offense.

When Tagovailoa came out for Alabama's first drive of the second half, many were left confused by the move. Hurts was 25-2 in his career as a starter, and the idea of giving a true freshman his first competitive playing time in the national championship against one of the best defenses in college football seems like a recipe for disaster.

But Saban knew what he was doing.

Saban has a set of clangers though. There’s a reason he’s built championship squads at multiple schools. Still salty he left LSU.

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, gundy1124 said:

Does Tommy have any comebacks in the past 3 years? 

 

9 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Have we had any comebacks with Tommy?

Depends what you consider a comeback but:
Last year we were down in the 3rd to UNI, down in the 4th to NAU, down in the 3rd to MSU, down in the 4th to YSU, scored with 10 seconds left in the half to take the lead against USD, down late in the 2nd against ACU.

Two years ago, we were tied with ISU in the 4th and down two scores in the 4th against YSU.

Three years ago, we were down to SDSU late in the 3rd.

 

So yeah, it looks like he's managed at least coming from behind more than a few times.

[HoopsFan03]

6 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Nothing motivates guys like the bench. 

Stabler was a dog though and his team knew he was a warrior. I have my doubts that Tommy moves the needle for his teammates like that and the record shows it. Have we had any comebacks with Tommy?

I think this is a bigger deal than people realize. Tommy's lack of (or pretty much non-existent) emotion/fire as the starting QB and 'leader' of this team hurts tremendously. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

17 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Saban has a set of clangers though. There’s a reason he’s built championship squads at multiple schools. Still salty he left LSU.

Saban has a set and knows how to get after people. He demands respect and is a hell of a motivator. Common denominator for great head coaches - especially in college - is the ability to motivate and speak. UND’s current head coach - as evidenced by the road record and implicitly admitted during his own most recent presser - is unable to motivate worth a sh*t when things go bad. Last one that could do this well for UND was Dale Lennon (and he brought home a ‘ship)

[jdub27]

1 minute ago, HoopsFan03 said:

I think this is a bigger deal than people realize. Tommy's lack of (or pretty much non-existent) emotion/fire as the starting QB and 'leader' of this team hurts tremendously. 

Based on conversations with coaching staff, players, parents and others close to the program, I will respectfully disagree. They are all behind going to battle with him. Just because he isn't yelling and screaming doesn't mean he isn't a leader, doesn't have fire or isn't a competitor. 

Quincy Vaughn has spoke publicly about it at a few different events I've attended. He knew Tommy was the leader of the team, knew he wasn't going to pass him on the depth chart and wanted to do whatever he could to help the team which is why he went and asked about switching positions. Also, kudos to him for not taking the easy way out and transferring and also credit to the staff for building the kind of culture that student athletes are willing to make choices like that rather than leaving to go elsewhere.

[UND-FB-FAN]

7 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

 

Depends what you consider a comeback but:
Last year we were down in the 3rd to UNI, down in the 4th to NAU, down in the 3rd to MSU, down in the 4th to YSU, scored with 10 seconds left in the half to take the lead against USD, down late in the 2nd against ACU.

Two years ago, we were tied with ISU in the 4th and down two scores in the 4th against YSU.

Three years ago, we were down to SDSU late in the 3rd.

 

So yeah, it looks like he's managed at least coming from behind more than a few times.

Objectively speaking, you’re right, comebacks are not the metric lacking for Tommy Schuster as UND’s quarterback. It’s big plays on the road that are lacking, hence the horrid road record. This goes along with the leadership, motivation, non-athletic, mediocre arm, etc. etc. complaints that we hear again and again … probably because they’re accurate and easily observable. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

3 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Based on conversations with coaching staff, players, parents and others close to the program, I will respectfully disagree.

A few biases at play, maybe? They’re certainly not going to say their starting quarterback can’t be a leader… but keep drinking the kool-aid.  

[HoopsFan03]

1 minute ago, jdub27 said:

Based on conversations with coaching staff, players, parents and others close to the program, I will respectfully disagree. They are all behind going to battle with him. Just because he isn't yelling and screaming doesn't mean he isn't a leader, doesn't have fire or isn't a competitor. 

Quincy Vaughn has spoke publicly about it at a few different events I've attended. He knew Tommy was the leader of the team, knew he wasn't going to pass him on the depth chart and wanted to do whatever he could to help the team which is why he went and asked about switching positions. Also, kudos to him for not taking the easy way out and transferring and also credit to the staff for building the kind of culture that student athletes are willing to make choices like that rather than leaving to go elsewhere.

Not saying those people are lying, but what person that close to the program would publicly talk bad about the starting QB?? That just isn't going to happen. Everyone is going to give the sunshine and rainbows media answer/talk. 

I respectfully disagree that his lack of emotion doesn't hurt the team and the teams potential tremendously.

[gundy1124]

25 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

 

Depends what you consider a comeback but:
Last year we were down in the 3rd to UNI, down in the 4th to NAU, down in the 3rd to MSU, down in the 4th to YSU, scored with 10 seconds left in the half to take the lead against USD, down late in the 2nd against ACU.

Two years ago, we were tied with ISU in the 4th and down two scores in the 4th against YSU.

Three years ago, we were down to SDSU late in the 3rd.

 

So yeah, it looks like he's managed at least coming from behind more than a few times.

Fishing for a game the UND offense and Tommy were in a funk, down 10+ in the 2nd half, then caught fire and won based on Tommy's performance.  I just don't recall that scenario but as you mention, UND vrs YSU 2 years.  Otis broke a 43-yard run.

GRAND FORKS. N.D. – North Dakota (4-5, 2-4 MVFC) trailed Youngstown State (2-6, 1-5 MVFC) by two scores with 10 minutes left in the game, but it was the Hawks picking up the 24-21 win after scoring 14 unanswered points in the fourth quarter at the Alerus Center on Saturday afternoon.

Tommy Schuster led the offense with 191 yards through the air and two TD passes, going 23-for-35 passing. Bo Belquist was the favorite target with nine grabs for 52 yards, including a nine-yard touchdown catch. Brock Boltmann was the next most productive receiver, hauling in five receptions for 69 yards. Garett Maag also had a touchdown grab to go with three receptions for 28 yards.

Otis Weah led UND on the ground with 14 rushes for 90 yards, including the 43-yard game-winning touchdown run with 4:05 left in regulation to give the Hawks the victory. Isaiah Smith also spent time in the backfield and put up 30 yards on six carries.

 

Last year NAU was just an effort by Bo, very fortunate in that one!!  I was at that game and don't think that fits.

Tommy's comeback record/scenarios are pretty shaky.

[SIOUXFAN97]

11 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

A few biases at play, maybe? They’re certainly not going to say their starting quarterback can’t be a leader… but keep drinking the kool-aid.  

i still think there is/was more to tommy being "photoshopped" on that image late........i think danny (especially with his comments about a lack of big/chunk plays thru the air) that he wanted trey or jerry but i think bubba is hoping for that 7-4 and grind out another year...then 7-4 again and grind it out with tommy...bc he's "safer". (7 wins=lifetime contract)

[SIOUXFAN97]

2 minutes ago, gundy1124 said:

Fishing for a game the UND offense and Tommy were in a funk, down 10+ in the 2nd half, then caught fire and won based on Tommy's performance.  I just don't recall that scenario but as you mention, UND vrs YSU 2 years.  Otis broke a 43-yard run.

GRAND FORKS. N.D. – North Dakota (4-5, 2-4 MVFC) trailed Youngstown State (2-6, 1-5 MVFC) by two scores with 10 minutes left in the game, but it was the Hawks picking up the 24-21 win after scoring 14 unanswered points in the fourth quarter at the Alerus Center on Saturday afternoon.

Tommy Schuster led the offense with 191 yards through the air and two TD passes, going 23-for-35 passing. Bo Belquist was the favorite target with nine grabs for 52 yards, including a nine-yard touchdown catch. Brock Boltmann was the next most productive receiver, hauling in five receptions for 69 yards. Garett Maag also had a touchdown grab to go with three receptions for 28 yards.

Otis Weah led UND on the ground with 14 rushes for 90 yards, including the 43-yard game-winning touchdown run with 4:05 left in regulation to give the Hawks the victory. Isaiah Smith also spent time in the backfield and put up 30 yards on six carries.

 

Last year NAU was just an effort by Bo, very fortunate in that one!!  I was at that game and don't think that fits.

Tommy's comeback record/scenarios are pretty shaky.

i think we're looking for a NAU level comeback for a share of the BSC conference type of comeback....

[fightingsioux4life]

16 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Based on conversations with coaching staff, players, parents and others close to the program, I will respectfully disagree. They are all behind going to battle with him. Just because he isn't yelling and screaming doesn't mean he isn't a leader, doesn't have fire or isn't a competitor.

I agree with you on this. Leadership takes on many different forms. Some leaders are loud and charismatic. Some are quiet and lead by example. I honestly don't think Tommy is the biggest problem with this team (not even close). It's the inability to follow up a big win with a solid performance the next week. And we have to figure out how to win on the road. We'll never accomplish anything beyond making the playoffs if we don't learn how to win outside the friendly confines of the Alerus Center.

[UND-FB-FAN]

3 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I agree with you on this. Leadership takes on many different forms. Some leaders are loud and charismatic. Some are quiet and lead by example. I honestly don't think Tommy is the biggest problem with this team (not even close). It's the inability to follow up a big win with a solid performance the next week. And we have to figure out how to win on the road. We'll never accomplish anything beyond making the playoffs if we don't learn how to win outside the friendly confines of the Alerus Center.

I certainly do not think leaders need to be loud and boisterous, as effective communication and confidence have several different styles, but I do think leadership is lacking for UND FB right now as evidenced by the stark contrast in this team between home and away games. Call it player leadership or coaching, but it is probably both. Tommy Schuster should be a leader since he’s the quarterback (most important position in all of sports), and since leadership is being called into question, one can put two and two together.

[HoopsFan03]

6 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I honestly don't think Tommy is the biggest problem with this team (not even close). It's the inability to follow up a big win with a solid performance the next week. And we have to figure out how to win on the road. We'll never accomplish anything beyond making the playoffs if we don't learn how to win outside the friendly confines of the Alerus Center.

So then what is the biggest issue? We all know coaching is a big issue. But the players have to play. What is the most important position in football? The quarterback position. Has our QB play not been extremely shaky? Especially in big games? Like on the road?

I guess I'm just trying to figure out why Tommy keeps getting a pass, when he is playing the most important position on the field and goes MIA in any big game or big moment. Something just isn't adding up to me.

[jdub27]

Was curious about the road issues, so dug a little deeper. Went back to 2018, which counting this year, is about 5 full seasons worth (given 2021 spring season was less than a full season).

Total Record: 9-22 (gross)
FBS Games: 0-4
FCS vs. Top 5 opponents: 1-7
FSC vs. Top 6-15 opponents: 0-2
FCS vs. Top 16-25 opponents: 0-4
FCS vs. Unranked opponents: 8-5

Pull out FBS, and Top 15 opponents, where very few programs are going to have a super high winning percentage on the road, and the record is 8-9. That's the area that shouldn't be that hard to improve. Not sure what a realistic winning percentage in that category is but probably around 75% or higher. Take care of the low hanging fruit, and then the other ones become more attainable.

Don't blow MSU and hold on at SIU and USD two years ago and you're already getting pretty close.