2023 Early Departures & Portal Transfers

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, SiouxFanSince1990 said:

I swear, you’re not happy unless you’re upset.

While I won't give up on a team before the season starts, his points aren't entirely without merit. This upcoming season is critical for the coaching staff and the program.

[stoneySIOUX]

15 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

While I won't give up on a team before the season starts, his points aren't entirely without merit. This upcoming season is critical for the coaching staff and the program.

Yep. We all know. We've been told DOZENS of times. 

[dustnyou]

13 hours ago, Big A HG said:

 

So your first point is that the outgoing kids were subpar on a talent level and/or unwilling/unable to learn.  Berry is a self-proclaimed "culture" guy yet has had numerous bad culture players on one team?  We've seldom had players in the past unwilling to put in the work and Berry is a lifelong defensive guy from his time as a player and as a coach.  On paper, there aren't many in the NCAA with Berry's type of resume in that regard.  So, Berry either recruited the wrong kids or couldn't coach them...or both.  A failure on his part either way.

Second, you're impressed with a group of transfers who haven't even played a game for UND yet.  How do we know they're legitimate?  Maybe they will be great, maybe they won't, but the fact that we're relying on the portal to make our team instead of using it as a means of enhancing our team is a failure on its own.  There's nothing wrong with a portal guy or two each year...UND should definitely take advantage of that when able, but Berry's poor roster management has led to a situation where we HAVE to use it instead of WANT to use it.

In my opinion, it shows Berry has very little control over the program at the moment.  I see none of our rivals encountering roster mismanagement to this degree, especially considering Berry is playing with a stacked hand factoring in the facilities, history, fanbase, etc.  Instead of holding Berry to the high standard our program deserves, everyone wants to keep lowering the bar for him.  I guess it's a sign of the times....

 

Have you considered that the “failure” could also be the fault of the student athlete and not the head coach? Did the athlete do what he said he was willing to do? Did he show up for class? Get good grades? Take full advantage of his opportunities? Get along with his teammates? Not get homesick? Like GF? 

[brianvf]

1 hour ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Yep. We all know. We've been told DOZENS of times. 

I’ll take the over. 

[stoneySIOUX]

1 hour ago, dustnyou said:

Have you considered that the “failure” could also be the fault of the student athlete and not the head coach? Did the athlete do what he said he was willing to do? Did he show up for class? Get good grades? Take full advantage of his opportunities? Get along with his teammates? Not get homesick? Like GF? 

Nope. Only Bubs. Nope.

[Irish]

1 hour ago, dustnyou said:

Have you considered that the “failure” could also be the fault of the student athlete and not the head coach? Did the athlete do what he said he was willing to do? Did he show up for class? Get good grades? Take full advantage of his opportunities? Get along with his teammates? Not get homesick? Like GF? 

Agreed that the athletes individually play a big role in this - however, these were recruits who were chosen, checked on by talking to their coaches, interviewed, followed, and offered by a coach who emphasizes culture to come to UND.  Even so do recruits sometimes don't pan out - homesick, can't work through adversity, poor chemistry,  etc - absolutely.  Should this happen to almost an entire group?  Not in a program of our stature.  Something went wrong here.  Just look at our goalie recruitment to see what I mean.  The good news is that we seem to have rebounded some through good use of the portal (although time will tell).  The bad news is that this type of program building is unsustainable if we want to be on top.  It's past time for us to win some top recruiting battles and build our roster with a good mix of talent in an orderly fashion.  Agreed that Covid made things strange but still ....

[SiouxFanSince1990]

4 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

While I won't give up on a team before the season starts, his points aren't entirely without merit. This upcoming season is critical for the coaching staff and the program.

The program hasn’t had to deal with much hardship since the early 90s. I get that, but I think it’s too early to jump ship and say we’re FU****.

[iluvdebbies]

12 minutes ago, SiouxFanSince1990 said:

The program hasn’t had to deal with much hardship since the early 90s. I get that, but I think it’s too early to jump ship and say we’re FU****.

Chicken Little gonna Chicken Little.

[siouxfan512]

If the weather feels like October outside, can we just start the next hockey season?

[petey23]

1 hour ago, Irish said:

Agreed that the athletes individually play a big role in this - however, these were recruits who were chosen, checked on by talking to their coaches, interviewed, followed, and offered by a coach who emphasizes culture to come to UND.  Even so do recruits sometimes don't pan out - homesick, can't work through adversity, poor chemistry,  etc - absolutely.  Should this happen to almost an entire group?  Not in a program of our stature.  Something went wrong here.  Just look at our goalie recruitment to see what I mean.  The good news is that we seem to have rebounded some through good use of the portal (although time will tell).  The bad news is that this type of program building is unsustainable if we want to be on top.  It's past time for us to win some top recruiting battles and build our roster with a good mix of talent in an orderly fashion.  Agreed that Covid made things strange but still ....

There isn't a coach in America who has been at a school for more than 3 or 4 years whether it is in Football, basketball, Hockey, Baseball, or virtually any collegiate sport who does not talk about the Culture of their program. 

[Irish]

26 minutes ago, petey23 said:

There isn't a coach in America who has been at a school for more than 3 or 4 years whether it is in Football, basketball, Hockey, Baseball, or virtually any collegiate sport who does not talk about the Culture of their program. 

Agreed - but when it's a big emphasis and mentioned often and then things go sideways it is easy to point out - perhaps too easy in that there are many factors involved.  Bottom line - we need to get back to recruiting great talent and having tournament success soon.  

[Big A HG]

6 hours ago, SiouxFanSince1990 said:

I swear, you’re not happy unless you’re upset.

 

I've lost count, but I've been here 12-13-14 years or something.  The fact you're first saying this now shows you'd be incorrect.  Though Hak never won a title, he continued to grow the program in a positive direction and made UND hockey fun and competitive.  Berry started on a high note and has not only failed to continue that growth, but our program has waned under his watch.  I've given Berry his chances after earlier program hardships which is why I wasn't vocal then, but when it's time to call a spade a spade, I'm not going to sit here and not voice my opinion.  That's what we're all here for, is it not?  Or, do many of you just want a safe space echo chamber of positivity?  Some are okay with where UND is at.  I don't get it, but fine...so be it.  I'm not happy and won't accept where our program is right now.  Everyone wants to give Berry more chances, but keep in mind, this isn't his first misstep.  Covid fog is gettin' to many of you.  

[Walsh Hall]

40 minutes ago, Big A HG said:

 

I've lost count, but I've been here 12-13-14 years or something.  The fact you're first saying this now shows you'd be incorrect.  Though Hak never won a title, he continued to grow the program in a positive direction and made UND hockey fun and competitive.  Berry started on a high note and has not only failed to continue that growth, but our program has waned under his watch.  I've given Berry his chances after earlier program hardships which is why I wasn't vocal then, but when it's time to call a spade a spade, I'm not going to sit here and not voice my opinion.  That's what we're all here for, is it not?  Or, do many of you just want a safe space echo chamber of positivity?  Some are okay with where UND is at.  I don't get it, but fine...so be it.  I'm not happy and won't accept where our program is right now.  Everyone wants to give Berry more chances, but keep in mind, this isn't his first misstep.  Covid fog is gettin' to many of you.  

How many programs have a better record or average pairwise finish than UND since Berry took over?  

[SIOUXELEVENS]

Boy is that what we are after best avg finish , come on we are eight time champs. 

[Big A HG]

10 minutes ago, Walsh Hall said:

How many programs have a better record or average pairwise finish than UND since Berry took over?  

 

What color are the Average Pairwise Finish Banners in the Ralph?  Are we trending up or down?  Are high end recruits interested in UND lately?  How many of our players that played well under Berry and gave some regular season success had their scouting and recruitment start under Hakstol?  

[Melvin]

46 minutes ago, Walsh Hall said:

How many programs have a better record or average pairwise finish than UND since Berry took over?  

There are a few. DU comes to mind. This is how ridiculous this argument has become. Last year sucked, no doubt. It wasn't a lot of fun attending post-game press conference after losses. There were a few of them.

With that said, can you imagine someone calling the AD Chaves and demanding that he fire head coach Brad Berry this is a coach that has a .645 winning percentage, a national title, three back-to back-to-back titles, as well as a playoff title. Mind you there's been down years, however, I think he knows a lot more than we do about hockey. Even though the program is down, there still heads and tails ahead of the vast majority of the 62 teams in the NCAA. Berry has still won more NCAA titles than all of the Big Ten Teams combined and only two teams are ahead of UND, UMD and DU which are in the same power conference. Even if the university fired him. Who the hell is going to replace him? How long before we fire that guy, too? 

People wanted to run Hakstol out of town because he had never won a title. Think about that for awhile. Fans of other teams openly mock some of the conversations they read on this message board. 

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, Big A HG said:

Covid fog is gettin' to many of you.  

You mean the one where UND was the number one overall seed going into the tournament that got cancelled?
Nothing guaranteed one way or another but if that season plays out, one of the two opinion camps have a data point to work with (and I'm stating it could have been either side).

[Big A HG]

Just now, jdub27 said:

You mean the one where UND was the number one overall seed going into the tournament that got cancelled?
Nothing guaranteed one way or another but if that season plays out, one of the two opinion camps have a data point to work with (and I'm stating it could have been either side).

 

Who's to say they would have won a single tourney game in 2020?  What if they lost in the first round with another "loaded" team...would that change your opinion any?  They didn't play any games so it's entirely meaningless for both sides of the argument.  As good as they were, that team was nowhere near as talented as the 2015-16 team, and that 15-16 team almost didn't make it past the national semifinal.  The teams the following two years were plenty talented and only managed to beat AIC in the tourney.  UND hasn't won a regional in seven seasons with or without teams talented enough to win a conference title.  That natty was awesome, but is no longer recent memory.  How many more patchwork teams do we have to bear witness to before more people realize that UND dragged their feet and wasted time for nothing? 

[thUNDer]

IDK, never been a fan of the ‘Fire Hak, Fire Berry’ threads but trust in the eye test of the on ice product/talent for every game this last year. IMHO, early year product was better than the later year which to me is a coaching issue & poor line-up decisions.

[tnt]

43 minutes ago, thUNDer said:

IDK, never been a fan of the ‘Fire Hak, Fire Berry’ threads but trust in the eye test of the on ice product/talent for every game this last year. IMHO, early year product was better than the later year which to me is a coaching issue & poor line-up decisions.

Might want to get your eyes checked, as UND was playing some of their best hockey at the end, it’s just that at that point they were already behind the eight ball.

[Big A HG]

23 minutes ago, tnt said:

Might want to get your eyes checked, as UND was playing some of their best hockey at the end, it’s just that at that point they were already behind the eight ball.

 

I suppose you're right, they were playing some of their best hockey of the year if that's how you want to look at it.  But, they were also playing some mediocre competition and many of those games were down to a single goal, very few were super convincing wins.  After new year they were still only 1-5-1 in games against teams that made the NCAA tournament including a loss when it mattered most in St Paul to St Cloud.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

1 hour ago, Big A HG said:

 

Who's to say they would have won a single tourney game in 2020?  What if they lost in the first round with another "loaded" team...would that change your opinion any?  They didn't play any games so it's entirely meaningless for both sides of the argument.  As good as they were, that team was nowhere near as talented as the 2015-16 team, and that 15-16 team almost didn't make it past the national semifinal.  The teams the following two years were plenty talented and only managed to beat AIC in the tourney.  UND hasn't won a regional in seven seasons with or without teams talented enough to win a conference title.  That natty was awesome, but is no longer recent memory.  How many more patchwork teams do we have to bear witness to before more people realize that UND dragged their feet and wasted time for nothing? 

I don't think you're remembering the 2019-2020 season very well.  It was one of only four seasons in UND hockey history where the team had a .800 winning percentage or higher (1986-1987 (Gino - with a title), 1998-1999 (Blais - one and done), 2015-2016 (Berry - with a title), and 2019-2020 (Berry - with a ?)).  Would they have won the title that season?  Who knows.  But they would have been the #1 overall seed, and I would have liked their chances against anyone.  Berry did a great job that season.

You're also severely discounting the 2020-2021 season, and forgetting that UND (again, the #1 overall seed) played a rested Duluth squad and lost in 5OTs.  If UND wins that game are you okay with Berry now?  

2021-2022 wasn't terrible either.  Another Penrose Cup (not the banner we all hope for, but a banner nonetheless).  Another OT loss in the NCAAs (Berry has been particularly snakebitten in OT as a head coach, see season enders in 2017, 2018, 2021, 2022, and 2023)), but what I would consider an above-average season.  

This past season was very frustrating, and a complete disappointment given the expectations coming into the season.  If next season ends the same way, I agree that looking at other options should be considered.  Until then, everybody here understands the point you've made over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.  Let's move on.

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, Big A HG said:

 

Who's to say they would have won a single tourney game in 2020?  What if they lost in the first round with another "loaded" team...would that change your opinion any?  

Gee, it's almost like I literally said that there were no guarantees and that either side of the argument could have had something to further their argument.... 

[tnt]

50 minutes ago, Big A HG said:

 

I suppose you're right, they were playing some of their best hockey of the year if that's how you want to look at it.  But, they were also playing some mediocre competition and many of those games were down to a single goal, very few were super convincing wins.  After new year they were still only 1-5-1 in games against teams that made the NCAA tournament including a loss when it mattered most in St Paul to St Cloud.

True, it wasn’t hard to match the first half, I was only pointing out the stark contrast on how poorly we played for instance in St. Cloud, compared to how we were skating when we played them here.  

[thUNDer]

20 minutes ago, tnt said:

True, it wasn’t hard to match the first half, I was only pointing out the stark contrast on how poorly we played for instance in St. Cloud, compared to how we were skating when we played them here.  

Ummm, did I miss the MN & QU natty game? Nope, we did quite well against #1&#2 last Fall.