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2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)


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22 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

Sensationalism and distraction. 

Of course the actions of some idiots in Portland and some other cities are worry-some,  but the vast majority of protests are peaceful, nor is 99.9% of America even experiencing violence at protests right now.  Yet it's still the Right's 'go-to' talking point; like ad nauseum.  "The violence and lawlessness of Antifa and liberal protesters will be the death of this country!"    Seriously,  **** off.  

You know what is affecting people?  Our economy is in the toilet, unemployment is rampant and Covid-19 has spread everywhere.  

  

 

And if a democrat was president the same things would be happening, economy would be worse and they would blame it on a video in China 

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The only people who need to be tested are health care workers, the elderly, and those with underlying health conditions.  If you are young (under 50) and healthy and are taking up a test kit, crowding

This country is being bright to its knees by fear....not the virus. Recovery from getting the virus is a couple weeks. Recovery of society from this hysteria will be years.

It’s sad that about half the country still believes outlets like msnbc and cnn.  You would think after they lied everyday for 3 years about Russian collusion, people would get the hint of what their t

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12 minutes ago, Old Fella said:

So, I won the bet/you are smarter than Trump, however the bar was set very low.

Defining smarter is hard?  Is it knowledge, experience, IQ, EQ, a mix of all of the above?  
 

I don’t believe Trump lacks knowledge, experience or IQ points (might not be a genius, but he’s probably at least 120-130).

What Trump lacks is a filter, temperance, and patience.  He doesn’t care to bring people along his mental construct, he just fires from the hip.  
 

one thing experience has taught me is how important it is to frame things and bring people up to speed with your thought process before just blasting away with a decision or opinion.  I think Trump has been an autocratic business leader for so long that he just doesn’t think like that.

so, I am not a Trumpist.  I voted libertarian last time- was in a State that was going Hillary no matter what, so it was basically a protest vote.  That said, we are in some very unprecedented times right now.  Neither Trump nor the democrats appeal to my belief structure, so it becomes the lesser of two evils.  I was sincerely hoping Biden would claim the middle ground like a Bill Clinton Democrat, but I’m concerned the party has gone so far left he can’t do that.  With Covid too much of the country is now dependent on government.  It was bad before, it’s horrible now.   

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Lincoln saved the Republic by bringing millions to their knees.  I hope it doesn’t come to that.  The cultural, experiential, philosophical, and economic divides in this country are tremendous.  What does a Wyoming cowboy or Texas Oil man have in common with a Brooklyn chef or a Los Angeles graphic designer?  Little to begin with, then start layering in where they grew up, their experiences, their ethnicity....

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4 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

Defining smarter is hard?  Is it knowledge, experience, IQ, EQ, a mix of all of the above?  
 

I don’t believe Trump lacks knowledge, experience or IQ points (might not be a genius, but he’s probably at least 120-130).

What Trump lacks is a filter, temperance, and patience.  He doesn’t care to bring people along his mental construct, he just fires from the hip.  
 

one thing experience has taught me is how important it is to frame things and bring people up to speed with your thought process before just blasting away with a decision or opinion.  I think Trump has been an autocratic business leader for so long that he just doesn’t think like that.

so, I am not a Trumpist.  I voted libertarian last time- was in a State that was going Hillary no matter what, so it was basically a protest vote.  That said, we are in some very unprecedented times right now.  Neither Trump nor the democrats appeal to my belief structure, so it becomes the lesser of two evils.  I was sincerely hoping Biden would claim the middle ground like a Bill Clinton Democrat, but I’m concerned the party has gone so far left he can’t do that.  With Covid too much of the country is now dependent on government.  It was bad before, it’s horrible now.   

Nails on head, you're hitting them.

I don't care about Biden, it's the seeething hoardes of evil that control the party and everything happening behind him that is so dangerous to the country. 

BIDEN is just an empty vehicle being proped up as a figurehead to provide a host for the parasitic army of hatred and control.

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https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/annehelenpetersen/antifa-rumors-george-floyd-protests

 

How The Antifa Fantasy Spread In Small Towns Across The US

https://newsregister.com/article?articleTitle=antifa-strength-numbers-greatly-overstated-by-foes--1593740758--37546--commentary

Antifa strength, numbers greatly overstated 

https://www.businessinsider.com/barr-gop-present-antifa-major-threat-but-no-evidence-killings-2020-7

Trump, Barr, and the GOP present antifa as a major threat in the US, but they're not killing people — unlike white supremacists

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/anarchists-and-antifa-not-according-to-the-data

Anarchists and antifa’? Not according to the data

Analysis shows many of those arrested do not fit the caricature of an anarchist bent on destruction

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

Anti-fascists linked to zero murders in the US in 25 years

As Trump rails against ‘far-left’ fascism, new database shows leftwing attacks have left far fewer people dead than violence by rightwing extremists

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I’m just writing away this morning...

Here are some other things that have really degraded opportunity in the USA that have nothing to do with social justice:

1.  Corporations outsourcing jobs overseas to save a buck.  Inflated earnings, but at the expense of product quality (pharma great example) and US jobs.

2.  The elimination of defined benefit pensions.  Again, really improved the balance sheets of Corporations, but at the cost of security.  Do not confuse this with the underfunded pensions in the public sector.  Those would be fine too if they were properly managed.

3.  Corporate tax law.  If you look at the effective rates actually paid, well, let’s just say we all wish we paid so little.

4.  Housing.  I’ve said it a million times.  All people want is a job, a family, and a home they own.  When a house in CA costs $700k as a starting point, there is no hope for the masses.  
 

im losing steam...too much posting for a Sunday morning.

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1 hour ago, yzerman19 said:

I’m just writing away this morning...

Here are some other things that have really degraded opportunity in the USA that have nothing to do with social justice:

1.  Corporations outsourcing jobs overseas to save a buck.  Inflated earnings, but at the expense of product quality (pharma great example) and US jobs.

2.  The elimination of defined benefit pensions.  Again, really improved the balance sheets of Corporations, but at the cost of security.  Do not confuse this with the underfunded pensions in the public sector.  Those would be fine too if they were properly managed.

3.  Corporate tax law.  If you look at the effective rates actually paid, well, let’s just say we all wish we paid so little.

4.  Housing.  I’ve said it a million times.  All people want is a job, a family, and a home they own.  When a house in CA costs $700k as a starting point, there is no hope for the masses.  
 

im losing steam...too much posting for a Sunday morning.

Reagan was a disaster for this country.

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4 minutes ago, wxman91 said:

Reagan was a disaster for this country.

Victory in the Cold War and curbing inflation on one hand.

Economic devastation to the working class, manufacturing, mining, farming on the other.

I blame the Fed for almost all our economic woes.

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36 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Police have killed 598 people in 2020.

No, those officers should not have been killed.

But...  the frustration level in our country is at an all time high.  I can understand why it happened.  Doesn't mean I condone it. 

That concept may be too much for you to understand.  

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7 minutes ago, homer said:

I thought we were supposed to trust the experts.  

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/nancy-pelosi-deborah-birx-142917445.html

Well, she has good reason.  Our COVID 19 rate is rising, by a lot.  It's not going down.  Yet, this:

"Pelosi’s private criticism followed a New York Times report that Birx had been telling Trump in recent months that the coronavirus threat in the U.S. was fading. Democrats have condemned Trump for repeatedly downplaying the threat of the virus and not taking swift, forceful action to contain it."

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2 hours ago, Kab said:

And if a democrat was president the same things would be happening, economy would be worse and they would blame it on a video in China 

 

As it pertains to Covid?  Yea I agree.  Trump royally ****-ed up but I'm not confident the Democrats have the competency to do any better.   

As it pertains to race riots/violence?   Trump is part of the problem.  You know his game-plan is to fan the flames when he threatened to send the Feds into cities where there was little or no violence, nor federal buildings being harmed. 

But that's this Administration's shtick, it's predicated entirely on dividing this country.   I mean we're in historical times and, unlike any other President, not once has Trump articulated an all-encompassing collective unifying message to the nation.  He gets in front of a mic and spews personal grievances.  I suppose this appeals to some people.  Whatever.          

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53 minutes ago, wxman91 said:

Reagan was a disaster for this country.

 

Speaking of Reagan, he'd be considered a leftist 'never Trumper' in today's political climate.    

Reagan Foundation recently went as far as to tell the RNC to stop using his likeness next to Trump. 

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15 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

Well, she has good reason.  Our COVID 19 rate is rising, by a lot.  It's not going down.  Yet, this:

"Pelosi’s private criticism followed a New York Times report that Birx had been telling Trump in recent months that the coronavirus threat in the U.S. was fading. Democrats have condemned Trump for repeatedly downplaying the threat of the virus and not taking swift, forceful action to contain it."

So she is judging, and you are agreeing that it’s warranted based on her opinion of the virus a few months ago. Maybe she changed her opinion after becoming more familiar with the virus.  The D’s dint grant her the same leniency as Fauci gets for changing his stance on masks??

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6 minutes ago, homer said:

So she is judging, and you are agreeing that it’s warranted based on her opinion of the virus a few months ago. Maybe she changed her opinion after becoming more familiar with the virus.  The D’s dint grant her the same leniency as Fauci gets for changing his stance on masks??

"Maybe" she changed her opinion.  Maybe.  If that is the case, my guess is that she hasn"t changed her narrative with Trump. 

Fauci's stance has probably changed based on data.  I havent bothered looking it up.  If it changed,  can't fault him for that. A false narrative on Fauci wont change people's trust in his credibility.  Trump can't figure that out, among countless other things. 

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8 minutes ago, Hayduke1 said:

"Maybe" she changed her opinion.  Maybe.  If that is the case, my guess is that she hasn"t changed her narrative with Trump. 

Fauci's stance has probably changed based on data.  I havent bothered looking it up.  If it changed,  can't fault him for that. A false narrative on Fauci wont change people's trust in his credibility.  Trump can't figure that out, among countless other things. 

You haven’t bothered looking up Fauci’s history in masks? Come on.  

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3 hours ago, yzerman19 said:

The internet and social media with its dulling of humanity is the biggest threat we face.  More so than an antifa protest.  Cancel culture and the willingness to “kill” a person online like you would kill a bot in a video game.  It’s so de-sensitized.  I’m waiting for a major lawsuit against a platform like Facebook for damages due to inciting a virtual mob.
 

The country is very much split, like 51/49.  It is incredibly important that the barely minority’s rights are protected, no matter what side they are on.  The framers were very concerned about this and built the government to prefer gridlock over trampling without a super majority.  
 

Using Executive orders, eliminating the filibuster, expanding the Supreme Court, eliminating the electoral college, adding senators...these things all are abuses (no matter what side) and are contrary to the goals of the framers.  
 

 

The biggest unintended consequences of the internet is it allows people the opportunity to marinate themselves in a political echo-chamber that just validates their pre-existing biases. 

Unlike in years past where people obtained info/news from the same sources, we no longer have a common starting point for disagreement.       

  

  

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12 minutes ago, homer said:

You haven’t bothered looking up Fauci’s history in masks? Come on.  

I concern myself on what he is saying now.  Science and statistics can be fluid.  It is obvious by the data and science we have now that facemasks, social distancing, cleaning of surfaces and washing hands are helping reduce the spread of Covid 19.  Now, we need a vaccine or preventative.  All we can do until then is try to slow it down. 

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39 minutes ago, UNDlaw80 said:

 

As it pertains to Covid?  Yea I agree.  Trump royally ****-ed up but I'm not confident the Democrats have the competency to do any better.   

As it pertains to race riots/violence?   Trump is part of the problem.  You know his game-plan is to fan the flames when he threatened to send the Feds into cities where there was little or no violence, nor federal buildings being harmed. 

But that's this Administration's shtick, it's predicated entirely on dividing this country.   I mean we're in historical times and, unlike any other President, not once has Trump articulated an all-encompassing collective unifying message to the nation.  He gets in front of a mic and spews personal grievances.  I suppose this appeals to some people.  Whatever.          

I will agree with you on being un-remorsefully divisive.  While it can be argued that W and Obama were also divisive, that was a result of policy rather than rhetoric.  
 

Trump might be the first President to ever take the rhetorical position of constituents over country.  Certainly policy has always favored constituents in political history, but the surrounding rhetoric was at least attempting to (if not unite) at least explain and attempt to convince.

 

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Among McCain and Lewis’ collective eulogies as well as messages and appearances by Clinton, W, and Obama, I Have found myself nostalgic for a leader that at least on the surface appears to respect the office and speaks to and for all Americans.  
 

The thing is, I do favor many policy moves by Trump, but the why and how the message is delivered masks it over.

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1 hour ago, Hayduke1 said:

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Police have killed 598 people in 2020.

No, those officers should not have been killed.

But...  the frustration level in our country is at an all time high.  I can understand why it happened.  Doesn't mean I condone it. 

That concept may be too much for you to understand.  

How many police stops? Last year there was something like 200-300 million police stops. Only 1000 people lost their lives at the hands of police. 300 were black.  Whats the %.  Infinitesamal.

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The immigration thing drives me bananas for example.  There is an incredibly compelling argument to:

1. Establish strong border security and control immigration.

2.  Devise a path to citizenship via public or military service for those here legally or illegally at a set point in time.

3.  Deport criminals and those unwilling to follow the path to citizenship.

4.  Effectively manage work and school visas also tied to paths to citizenship or deportation depending on choices.

 

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1 hour ago, Hayduke1 said:

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Police have killed 598 people in 2020.

No, those officers should not have been killed.

But...  the frustration level in our country is at an all time high.  I can understand why it happened.  Doesn't mean I condone it. 

That concept may be too much for you to understand.  

You are the one continually throwing out a claim and then dodging it when questioned.  You stated that left wing extremists groups had not killed anyone in recent history.  I threw out an example that instantly discredited your assertion.  

As to the number of people killed by police in 2020......that's a raw number.  You do realize that there are bad people in this world that sometimes give police no other option but to harm them?  Hiding behind a raw number like that is a lazy way of trying to make your point.  Research those cases and get back to us with how many of those deaths weren't justified.  Are there some?  Absolutely.  Are they a rather small amount?  Yep, and you know it.  

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3 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

Among McCain and Lewis’ collective eulogies as well as messages and appearances by Clinton, W, and Obama, I Have found myself nostalgic for a leader that at least on the surface appears to respect the office and speaks to and for all Americans.  
 

The thing is, I do favor many policy moves by Trump, but the why and how the message is delivered masks it over.

 

It certainly puts many traditional conservatives in a predicament come November.   Temporarily acquiesce to democratic policy in order to install some normalcy in the White House, or keep Trump in office and hope the country doesn't burn to the ground.  As we're seeing, many are jumping off the Trump train already.  McConnell has reportedly told governors to ditch Trump if it helps re-election chances.  How it all plays out, who knows.      

Either way, it should be interesting where the party goes post-Trump.     

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