2020-21 Football Season

[nodak651]

16 hours ago, ND-fan said:

I would like to see what the budget is for UND compared to other Missouri Valley and Big Sky schools in football. Also are we playing FBS programs to get enough money to compensate for needs in the budget but what does it do to the program when we get  banged up early in the football season with team that lacks depth in players. Another thing I see is elite teams like NDSU and James Madison that get these deep runs into playoffs and with this they get extra month practice with their full teams developing players for the next season. This extra practice time has got to be significant positive factor in developing players year in year out. I look at NDSU the past 8 years they have gotten 6 weeks longer  practice time than most of the other conference teams its like getting two Spring practice seasons every year. But getting back I would like to see the difference in programs on what is spent for football  between various schools. Then how each school has for facilities, how they travel, and what things they pick up for student athletes they can pay for the athletes. All these things I have mentioned above comes into play in recruiting and developing players for the program. Also another thing that has hurt UND is media attention it receives and since Fargo has seized control of media markets I have seen significant change in who is getting attention and information to the public. On sports front NDSU is center stage and all other sports in NOrth Dakota have received less attention or none. This reflects back on recruiting and donor support and fan support. All these things have had impact on building a program.

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/reports  Can filter out football revenue and schools here.

Found an old spreadsheet that I made from their data - I think this is accurate for 2017.  SDSU used to have a pretty small football budget - their expenses ballooned due to debt payments on their football facilities - paid 2.6M in debt service in 2018, allocated to the football budget.  SDSU's football budget was only 3.46M in 2016. 

SchoolFootball Exp

SDSU $       6,173,730

NDSU $       5,281,392

UND $       4,464,097

ISUb $       4,048,550

YSU $       4,023,675

ISUr $       4,016,804

MSU $       3,858,335

FCS Median $       3,738,296

USD $       3,634,781

UNI $       3,549,488

WIU $       3,128,738

[geaux_sioux]

12 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

I think I may have quoted you by accident in my initial post (maybe instead of siouxfan97).  I did remember your post about receivers not being athletic enough, though, and then there was the post about what he could tell recruits, so my mistake if I misunderstood you.  

Perhaps the receivers didn't seem athletic enough, because some were running routes that didn't highlight their strengths?  (too many tall/slower guys)  Wasn't really a huge fan of Wanzek, Travis, and Maag as the top three starters, and feel like UND didn't have a traditional slot-type position (position, not player), so maybe something could be said about the depth chart or how our receivers are used.  Was Maag our slot receiver this year?  I think Griebel was on the depth chart behind him?  Kinda feel like Maag Should have been grouped in with Wanzek and Toivenen, and have Boltman and other more shifty guys with griebel/chochran.  Did all of our receivers run the same type of routes?  I just feel like Maag had a lot of long balls thrown to him, and Griebel would be more of a short pass type of route runner, kind of like Boltmann, so the reciever groupings seemed kind of odd to me all year.  Anyone have any insight on this, or what the philosophy is/was?  Maybe I'm just wrong in knowing what these guys strengths and weaknesses are.

This was the depth chart form the last game:
Wide Receiver 31 Noah Wanzek (6-4, 207, Sr.) 4 Brock Boltmann (6-2, 212, So.)
Wide Receiver 11 Travis Toivonen (6-4, 212, Sr.) 86 Alex Wilde (6-3, 210, Sr.)
Wide Receiver 89 Garett Maag (6-4, 206, So.) 13 Mikey Griebel (5-7, 177, So.)

This makes more sense to me:
Wide Receiver 31 Noah Wanzek (6-4, 207, Sr.) 89 Garett Maag (6-4, 206, So.)
Wide Receiver 11 Travis Toivonen (6-4, 212, Sr.) 89 Garett Maag (6-4, 206, So.) 86 Alex Wilde (6-3, 210, Sr.)
Wide Receiver 4 Brock Boltmann (6-2, 212, So.) 13 Mikey Griebel (5-7, 177, So.) OR  McKinney? Cochran?

My point with the WRs struggling to separate against better secondaries was about the tall white boys needing teammates with different body types and skills sets to compliment what they do best. A Greg Hardin Type. 

[nodak651]

14 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

My point with the WRs struggling to separate against better secondaries was about the tall white boys needing teammates with different body types and skills sets to compliment what they do best. A Greg Hardin Type. 

Gotcha.  Agree on too many guys with the same body type - you want a Randy Moss/Clive Georges (Greg Hardin) type to stretch the field.  Many of us thought that Cam McKinney would be used this way, but that hasn't materialized for some reason. 

What would your ideal WR depth chart look like?

WR - Fast deep threat guys
WR - Tall slow "hands" guys
WR - Quick/elusive short rout guys

Something like that, all on the field at the same time?

That's why I am bringing up the WR depth chart.  It just seemed odd to me with the way the receivers that we actually had were paired up on the depth chart.  Not sure how different the routes are, skillset-wise, for each of the receiver groupings that we have.

I've never played competitive football, so I don't know much about the X's and O's type stuff, so I'm just throwing this out there to see what you guys think...  this just seems logical to me.

[geaux_sioux]

2 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Gotcha.  Agree on too many guys with the same body type - you want a Randy Moss/Clive Georges (Greg Hardin) type to stretch the field.  Many of us thought that Cam McKinney would be used this way, but that hasn't materialized for some reason. 

What would your ideal WR depth chart look like?

WR - Fast deep threat guys
WR - Tall slow "hands" guys
WR - Quick/elusive short rout guys

Something like that, all on the field at the same time?

That's why I am bringing up the WR depth chart.  It just seemed odd to me with the way there receivers that we actually had were paired up on the depth chart.  Not sure how different the routes are, skillset-wise, for each of the receiver groupings that we have.

McKinney is not a viable wr. Can’t catch downfield. People need to move on from that cause it ain’t happening unless he gets a pair of hands for Christmas this year.

And yes to the rest of your post. It’s much harder to defend a diverse set of skills from an offense.

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, nodak651 said:

This was the depth chart form the last game:
Wide Receiver 31 Noah Wanzek (6-4, 207, Sr.) 4 Brock Boltmann (6-2, 212, So.)
Wide Receiver 11 Travis Toivonen (6-4, 212, Sr.) 86 Alex Wilde (6-3, 210, Sr.)
Wide Receiver 89 Garett Maag (6-4, 206, So.) 13 Mikey Griebel (5-7, 177, So.)

Based on personal available, they put the best 3 on the field. That's about as simple as it gets. They used the pass game as an extension of the run game and those were the three most sure-handed.

Toivonen and Maag both ran plenty of intermediate and deep routes that took the attention of the safety. They were able to do it more with their size and go up and get the ball rather than blow by them. Not what everyone is looking for but again, you do the best with the personnel you have. Maag has some pretty decent speed for his size. He will be a monster the next two years if he can continue to develop and work on his hands a bit, he had a few issues towards the end of the year. 
Wanzek was an excellent route runner and had the quickness to get open to go with his hands.
Boltman added a dynamic element, though I wouldn't classify him as a deep threat. He just needs the ball in space. I think he will play an absolutely huge role next year. If only he was a more accurate passer, he'd be fun to watch taking over the offense next year. 

There's some intriguing guys looking to fill in for the seniors next year:
Cochran has some pretty good speed 
Schmidt is a sprinter/hurdler on the indoor track team 
Burian and Zalvalney are local kids who are developing nicely and fit the size mold of Wanzek/Toivonen

[UND-FB-FAN]

16 hours ago, nodak651 said:

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/reports  Can filter out football revenue and schools here.

Found an old spreadsheet that I made from their data - I think this is accurate for 2017.  SDSU used to have a pretty small football budget - their expenses ballooned due to debt payments on their football facilities - paid 2.6M in debt service in 2018, allocated to the football budget.  SDSU's football budget was only 3.46M in 2016. 

SchoolFootball Exp

SDSU $       6,173,730

NDSU $       5,281,392

UNI $       4,464,097

UND $       4,464,097

ISUb $       4,048,550

YSU $       4,023,675

ISUr $       4,016,804

MSU $       3,858,335

FCS Median $       3,738,296

USD $       3,634,781

UNI $       3,549,488

WIU $       3,128,738

Now that UND is out of the Big Sky, it will be interesting to see how much they save on travel. With those savings, hopefully it can be re-allocated back towards the program for things like equipment. Big goal, of course, is getting High Performance Center Phase II started. That is the big shiny object in the room but no clue how close or far we are from obtaining that. It needs to done right, though, when it is constructed. Can't cut any corners. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

My take on UND receivers, since that is apparently a hot topic:

Noah Wanzek and Travis Toivonen were both very good receivers for UND over their career. Consistent and dependable, and as a result, put up big career numbers. It says something to always be available for the team. 

Yes, there were some negatives, mainly in terms of downfield speed. Wanzek and Toivonen likely won't be professional players, like Weston Dressler.

In terms of pure ability, Weston Dressler was the better player. Unfortunately, in these dark times, players like Weston Dressler in North Dakota undoubtedly go to NDSU rather than UND now. 

Chrysten Cochran will have to be the guy next year to take the big step up, along with Garrett Maag. Brock Boltmann needs to continue to grow in the slot position role and become more specialized in that position.  Those are the 3 receivers that I see big play potential from in 2020.

The rest of the group (Mikey Griebel, Jacob Odom, Adam Zavalney) will have to continue to develop as they will have situational roles on the team. 

Again, as is the case for the entire roster, UND needs to look to increase the talent level at receiver. That happens in recruiting, of course. For this recruiting cycle,  Bo Belquist, Marcus Preston, and Jack Wright all look to be capable players for UND. Have to wait until they are on campus before a clear idea of their ceiling develops. 

 

 

[nodak651]

17 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Now that UND is out of the Big Sky, it will be interesting to see how much they save on travel. With those savings, hopefully it can be re-allocated back towards the program for things like equipment. Big goal, of course, is getting High Performance Center Phase II started. That is the big shiny object in the room but no clue how close or far we are from obtaining that. It needs to done right, though, when it is constructed. Can't cut any corners. 

Just realized I had UNI on there twice, once with UND's budget.  just updated it.

[FlinFlan80]

15 hours ago, jdub27 said:

Based on personal available, they put the best 3 on the field. That's about as simple as it gets. They used the pass game as an extension of the run game and those were the three most sure-handed.

Toivonen and Maag both ran plenty of intermediate and deep routes that took the attention of the safety. They were able to do it more with their size and go up and get the ball rather than blow by them. Not what everyone is looking for but again, you do the best with the personnel you have. Maag has some pretty decent speed for his size. He will be a monster the next two years if he can continue to develop and work on his hands a bit, he had a few issues towards the end of the year. 
Wanzek was an excellent route runner and had the quickness to get open to go with his hands.
Boltman added a dynamic element, though I wouldn't classify him as a deep threat. He just needs the ball in space. I think he will play an absolutely huge role next year. If only he was a more accurate passer, he'd be fun to watch taking over the offense next year. 

There's some intriguing guys looking to fill in for the seniors next year:
Cochran has some pretty good speed 
Schmidt is a sprinter/hurdler on the indoor track team 
Burian and Zalvalney are local kids who are developing nicely and fit the size mold of Wanzek/Toivonen

Looking forward, I completely agree. Maag has to be the man. It is that simple. To compliment Maag, I do believe Zavalney will be the guy to step into Toivonen's role next year. Looking at him in warm-ups are during practice he definitely passes the eye team and did make some very impressive catches during fall camp. Cochran is something we have been missing for a couple years now. Good speed, good hands, and plays with a lot of emotion and grit, which is evident. Boltman and McKinney are hard for me to even call true WR's, as they show the ability to produce in multiple positions. Griebel is the guy I am looking to make a step up moving forward. He was rather highly touted coming to UND and I guess I would just like to know where he fits in. 

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

My take on UND receivers, since that is apparently a hot topic:

Noah Wanzek and Travis Toivonen were both very good receivers for UND over their career. Consistent and dependable, and as a result, put up big career numbers. It says something to always be available for the team. 

Yes, there were some negatives, mainly in terms of downfield speed. Wanzek and Toivonen likely won't be professional players, like Weston Dressler.

In terms of pure ability, Weston Dressler was the better player. Unfortunately, in these dark times, players like Weston Dressler in North Dakota undoubtedly go to NDSU rather than UND now. 

Chrysten Cochran will have to be the guy next year to take the big step up, along with Garrett Maag. Brock Boltmann needs to continue to grow in the slot position role and become more specialized in that position.  Those are the 3 receivers that I see big play potential from in 2020.

The rest of the group (Mikey Griebel, Jacob Odom, Adam Zavalney) will have to continue to develop as they will have situational roles on the team. 

Again, as is the case for the entire roster, UND needs to look to increase the talent level at receiver. That happens in recruiting, of course. For this recruiting cycle,  Bo Belquist, Marcus Preston, and Jack Wright all look to be capable players for UND. Have to wait until they are on campus before a clear idea of their ceiling develops. 

 

 

At the end of the day, the wr group lacks speed.

[Mama Sue]

Is there some place I can see the plans for Phase2? There are plans, right?

[UNDBIZ]

11 minutes ago, Mama Sue said:

Is there some place I can see the plans for Phase2? There are plans, right?

You can watch a short video at https://www.iconarchitects.com/athletics/und-high-performance-phase2.html.

Otherwise, there's a few posts on it here: 

 

[UNDBIZ]

Not sure why there's a Wolf of Wall Street gif in there, but I kinda like it.

[Mama Sue]

So great video and nice plans... facilities say a lot to the recruits...what is the hold up?

[UNDBIZ]

32 minutes ago, Mama Sue said:

So great video and nice plans... facilities say a lot to the recruits...what is the hold up?

$35,000,000

[Parkers Pros]

Do we know when Spring football is yet?

[Mama Sue]

Not soon enough

[iramurphy]

10 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

At the end of the day, the wr group lacks speed.

I keep reading this. What were/are the Wanzek, Toivonen, Maag, Adeoti. Boltman, 40times?  

[oldSioux]

On 12/10/2019 at 3:22 PM, geaux_sioux said:

My point with the WRs struggling to separate against better secondaries was about the tall white boys needing teammates with different body types and skills sets to compliment what they do best. A Greg Hardin Type. 

Can we stop with the fact that they are white? I mean you've mentioned it multiple times in this forum. Does that really appear to be the issue? Cuz IMO, most teams struggled with them in space and these "tall white boys" were very sure handed and elusive against secondaries all season. Not to mention extremely difficult to handle in the red zone during 1 on 1 jump balls. Tough to create separation and get open when you're constantly playing against nickle defenses because nobody fears our offensive line and run game. Also, you mean to tell me Boltman in the slot doesn't offer a complimentary skill set to our taller outside WR's? I would argue he's explosive.

[UND Dood]

Anyone know if any of the St. Cloud State players could help us? I see they have a couple 2nd team all-conference OL and DL guys.

[iramurphy]

Most D2 teams will have one or two players who can play at a higher level. Not sure what St. Cloud State has. 

[SiouxFan100]

Kicker punter?

[iramurphy]

12 minutes ago, SiouxFan100 said:

Kicker punter?

Doesn’t look like it

[geaux_sioux]

2 hours ago, oldSioux said:

Can we stop with the fact that they are white? I mean you've mentioned it multiple times in this forum. Does that really appear to be the issue? Cuz IMO, most teams struggled with them in space and these "tall white boys" were very sure handed and elusive against secondaries all season. Not to mention extremely difficult to handle in the red zone during 1 on 1 jump balls. Tough to create separation and get open when you're constantly playing against nickle defenses because nobody fears our offensive line and run game. Also, you mean to tell me Boltman in the slot doesn't offer a complimentary skill set to our taller outside WR's? I would argue he's explosive.

We didn’t have a true deep threat. Having one of those opens up a whole world of possibilities for an offense.

[oldSioux]

7 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

We didn’t have a true deep threat. Having one of those opens up a whole world of possibilities for an offense.

I would agree that a teams ability to air it out from time to time is effective, but the reality is you need to establish the run to throw the ball. UND was unable to establish a run game to any degree. I think we have threats who can go get the ball but you need a well thrown ball to give them a chance and that wasn't a product we were able to produce  much at all because of what we lack in multiple areas across the line and run game. If you want to be successful and make the playoffs don't worry about the pass game, play off teams are built around size and running the ball. (NDSU, Weber, MSU, Austin Peay (to an extent)). Montana does have a good pass game but they are able to establish the run and have a punishing defense. Don't know too much about what makes JMU click but ill tell ya what, they have a killer line and rushed for 3300 yards or something, comparatively we ran for 1400 and passed for 3100. Apples and Oranges maybe, but just my two cents... or maybe a dollar at this rate.