2019 Non-UND FCS Thread

[Siouxphan27]

11 hours ago, bison73 said:

Have you ever figured out the number of hours you put in training,  practice, film study, meetings, travel time, game time, etc etc etc????Away games youre on the clock 24/7. If youre being paid to play football youre also being paid to go to class and study. How many hours a week does that entail? In fact you arent making minimum wage. 

I heard this same line of reasoning back in the day from a couple of friends who were college athletes. 

If there's no enjoyment, no appreciation of the opportunity to play college sports, then don't.  Get that minimum wage job like the rest of us while getting your education and enjoy intramurals.   

There are plenty of young men and women out there with a passion for their sport who will be grateful for the opportunity should someone with more talent but no passion decide to quit.    

[Bison06]

7 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

I heard this same line of reasoning back in the day from a couple of friends who were college athletes. 

If there's no enjoyment, no appreciation of the opportunity to play college sports, then don't.  Get that minimum wage job like the rest of us while getting your education and enjoy intramurals.   

There are plenty of young men and women out there with a passion for their sport who will be grateful for the opportunity should someone with more talent but no passion decide to quit.    

Why can’t both be true? 

Every other student on a college campus can both pursue their dream and make money if they choose to do so, including those on full academic scholarships. 
 

I think college athletes would just like the same rules applied to them.

[geaux_sioux]

16 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Why can’t both be true? 

Every other student on a college campus can both pursue their dream and make money if they choose to do so, including those on full academic scholarships. 
 

I think college athletes would just like the same rules applied to them.

My main issue is that the “student athlete” concept was pulled out of thin air by lawyers in the NCAA back in the day to avoid players realizing their value personally. It was never about protecting athletes. It was purely based on greed by the institution.

[Texas rancher]

3 hours ago, Mama Sue said:

Jeopardy Question: what is pro sports?

Seriously? You forgot going to the bathroom....Do you want to track hours, get paid, and submit a bill for TP too?

i rest my case about unknown issues and abuses.... this statement leaves the door wide open!

You are not an intelligent person, your posts are not funny, I pity any human being that may have had you as a nurse!

[Bison06]

27 minutes ago, Texas rancher said:

You are not an intelligent person, your posts are not funny, I pity any human being that may have had you as a nurse!

[Siouxphan27]

2 hours ago, Bison06 said:

Why can’t both be true? 

Every other student on a college campus can both pursue their dream and make money if they choose to do so, including those on full academic scholarships. 
 

I think college athletes would just like the same rules applied to them.

They can.  Look at the post I responded to.   Sports were such a burden in bison73's scenario that he expected to be paid for sitting on an airplane or eating a free meal or staying in a nice hotel while on the road.  Among other ridiculous ideas.  

[Siouxperman8]

I was an athlete at UND back in the DII days and there wasn't as much oversight or control from the NCAA.

I figured back then that I put in 40 hours/week during the season and 25-30 hours/week average during the rest of the school year.

I included all of these things for calculation during the season:

• practice
• weight training
• film study as a team 2 evenings per week
• Sunday film review of Saturday game plus some light running and stretching
• 2 lunch meetings/week to review game plan for next game
• game day - breakfast meeting, pregame and the game itself
• Travel time when we played an away game

[Siouxphan27]

40 minutes ago, Texas rancher said:

You are not an intelligent person, your posts are not funny, I pity any human being that may have had you as a nurse!

I pity your cows.  

[UND1983]

38 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I was an athlete at UND back in the DII days and there wasn't as much oversight or control from the NCAA.

I figured back then that I put in 40 hours/week during the season and 25-30 hours/week average during the rest of the school year.

I included all of these things for calculation during the season:

• practice
• weight training
• film study as a team 2 evenings per week
• Sunday film review of Saturday game plus some light running and stretching
• 2 lunch meetings/week to review game plan for next game
• game day - breakfast meeting, pregame and the game itself
• Travel time when we played an away game

That's what the S/A's of today don't understand - it's never been easier to play a collegiate sport than it is now.  in fall camp they practice every other day at times.  It used to be two-a-days for 5 days a week, scrimmage Saturday and meetings on Sunday

[iramurphy]

22 hours ago, bison73 said:

Have you ever figured out the number of hours you put in training,  practice, film study, meetings, travel time, game time, etc etc etc????Away games youre on the clock 24/7. If youre being paid to play football youre also being paid to go to class and study. How many hours a week does that entail? In fact you arent making minimum wage. 

You can’t count class time nor academic study time. Athletes don’t deserve to be paid for that anymore than any other student. I realize when we  played years ago, college sports didn’t generate the revenues it does today, but frankly even with film time, time in the weight room, practice and off season training it wasn’t a full time job. During the pre- season and season depending on travel for away games vs home games it was 25-45 h per week. During the off season it was 15-20 h per week until spring ball. Then about 25h per week. We didn’t have to watch as much film when we weren’t doing game prep. Our summer workout schedule was 12-15 h per week. It’s still a game with great perks and you finish with a college degree. Unless you are either lazy or a moron, that college degree should pay dividends the rest of your life. The NCAA is stealing from the colleges and I would like to see that change, but  I still think a free college education with the other perks is a fair trade for kids to play a game. 

[MIBT]

11 hours ago, iramurphy said:

The NCAA is stealing from the colleges and I would like to see that change, but  I still think a free college education with the other perks is a fair trade for kids to play a game. 

How do you see the NCAA stealing from the colleges. The NCAA is the colleges. It's a membership organization and they collectively decide what rules and arrangements they want. The NCAA is not some separate entity that provides rules the schools have to follow.

[bang]

1 hour ago, MIBT said:

How do you see the NCAA stealing from the colleges. The NCAA is the colleges. It's a membership organization and they collectively decide what rules and arrangements they want. The NCAA is not some separate entity that provides rules the schools have to follow.

Any regulatory organization can be restrictive to the point that it feels like stealing. In this case I believe the are too restrictive and they over charge. They’ve got a lot of highly paid people not doing a lot. 

[bison73]

On 1/21/2020 at 8:18 AM, geaux_sioux said:

Off season is limited to 8 hrs a week of contact with coaches I believe.

I am talking totallity of hours put in.

[bison73]

13 hours ago, iramurphy said:

You can’t count class time nor academic study time. Athletes don’t deserve to be paid for that anymore than any other student. I realize when we  played years ago, college sports didn’t generate the revenues it does today, but frankly even with film time, time in the weight room, practice and off season training it wasn’t a full time job. During the pre- season and season depending on travel for away games vs home games it was 25-45 h per week. During the off season it was 15-20 h per week until spring ball. Then about 25h per week. We didn’t have to watch as much film when we weren’t doing game prep. Our summer workout schedule was 12-15 h per week. It’s still a game with great perks and you finish with a college degree. Unless you are either lazy or a moron, that college degree should pay dividends the rest of your life. The NCAA is stealing from the colleges and I would like to see that change, but  I still think a free college education with the other perks is a fair trade for kids to play a game. 

WE are both on the same page. I was just bringing facts to the table that there is more work involved than what people realize.

[bison73]

22 hours ago, UND1983 said:

That's what the S/A's of today don't understand - it's never been easier to play a collegiate sport than it is now.  in fall camp they practice every other day at times.  It used to be two-a-days for 5 days a week, scrimmage Saturday and meetings on Sunday

Not to get in to----we walked to school uphill both ways---but your 80s schedule would have been heaven in the early 70s.

[bison73]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:21 AM, geaux_sioux said:

My main issue is that the “student athlete” concept was pulled out of thin air by lawyers in the NCAA back in the day to avoid players realizing their value personally. It was never about protecting athletes. It was purely based on greed by the institution.

And control.

[The Sicatoka]

If you're going to tally student-athlete time spent on "athletic pursuits" (with our without coaching), up to and including travel time and time away from campus for competition, that is fine. Come up with that number. 

But I'll argue the "compensation" value should not just include the "scholarship" or "FCOA" number, but the total cost to the university per athlete (meaning travel and lodging and road meals, and the cost of game and training facilities, and coaches) costs. 

What did it "cost" the student-athlete; what did sponsoring the student-athlete "cost" the university? 

[bison73]

On 1/21/2020 at 7:37 AM, Mama Sue said:

Jeopardy Question: what is pro sports?

Seriously? You forgot going to the bathroom....Do you want to track hours, get paid, and submit a bill for TP too?

i rest my case about unknown issues and abuses.... this statement leaves the door wide open!

I see my post went right over your head.   I used to think like you. Then as I got older and realized the control the NCAA and schools wields over the student athletes heads. This whole scenario brings me back to a quote a player told me back in 1970 that I thought was absurd at the time.  "No group of athletes is so under represented than the college athlete while no other group needs it more."

But as I said. I used to think like you. Its the romantic idea of the amateur athlete.  As soon as you sign that National letter of intent it changes everything. Unfortunately.

[Sioux27]

On 1/21/2020 at 12:16 PM, Siouxphan27 said:

I pity your cows.  

Let's step it up Sioux Nation.......

[Sioux27]

4 hours ago, MIBT said:

How do you see the NCAA stealing from the colleges. The NCAA is the colleges. It's a membership organization and they collectively decide what rules and arrangements they want. The NCAA is not some separate entity that provides rules the schools have to follow.

LOL!!!!!!   This might be the post of the year.  Membership organization......is this pelosi behind the keyboard?

[iramurphy]

4 hours ago, MIBT said:

How do you see the NCAA stealing from the colleges. The NCAA is the colleges. It's a membership organization and they collectively decide what rules and arrangements they want. The NCAA is not some separate entity that provides rules the schools have to follow.

Good point. I guess I believe more of the revenues should be returned to the schools. It’s complicated because of individual contracts with schools or conferences so they likely don’t have the same control as I would have thought. The power 5 conferences have recaptured a lot of the control the NCAA was starting to have. 

[bison73]

On 1/21/2020 at 12:13 PM, Siouxphan27 said:

They can.  Look at the post I responded to.   Sports were such a burden in bison73's scenario that he expected to be paid for sitting on an airplane or eating a free meal or staying in a nice hotel while on the road.  Among other ridiculous ideas.  

You mean like when people who travel on business?  

But I never said or inferred that we should have been paid for those hours.  It was just a part of a laundry list showing where ones time is spent as an athlete.

[Siouxphan27]

46 minutes ago, bison73 said:

You mean like when people who travel on business?  

But I never said or inferred that we should have been paid for those hours.  It was just a part of a laundry list showing where ones time is spent as an athlete.

First of all, people who are paid by the hour (as you were using hourly pay in your example), don't travel on business.  You were suggesting college athletes should be getting free meals and trips, and also counted those hours towards your minimum wage example.  I get what you were saying, but i felt you went a little too far with your examples.  

[Mama Sue]

The parameters were fuzzy.... how many hours were just “life.” To many gray areas in this whole NCAA issue...

[MIBT]

11 hours ago, bang said:

Any regulatory organization can be restrictive to the point that it feels like stealing. In this case I believe the are too restrictive and they over charge. They’ve got a lot of highly paid people not doing a lot. 

The NCAA does not have a lot of highly paid people. If you work at the NCAA you are generally making less money and working more hours (especially nights and weekends) than most people in similar types of positions in other organizations. When you say over charge are you referring to tickets to events? The only events that generate revenue for the NCAA is sport championships. That does not include the CFP championship as that is run outside the NCAA. Ticket prices for regular season games are revenue for individual schools. Just because you see coaches at the top programs in 3 or 4 sports getting big salaries doesn't mean a lot of people are getting paid a lot of money in NCAA, conferences or school athletic departments.