Kennedy vs. Engelstad Foundation: GF herald feature

[jdub27]

9 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

I agree fully with this, It is important to understand that first sentence.

I think this post is well said and much closer to core issue.

Well said, good post.

I want to point out that how much "extra money" given back to UND at the end of the year is likely the issue. The REA can designate as much funds as they want to be held back before giving what is "leftover", meaning they can hold back more than what others think is fair or prudent for their own use, which isn't necessarily what is best for UND athletics as a whole. UND would like to control that stream of funds a little more from their end, which is more than a fair stance to take considering they are using the building less and have freed up more weekends for the REA to generate revenue from outside sources. UNDBIZ also made a good point in that the REA has not shared in the budget crunch that UND has (again, partially by design), but they have an opportunity to help out, since the REA exists for the betterment of UND athletics, and it appears they are taking an issue with that.

[MrEdway]

On 5/9/2018 at 10:08 PM, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Maybe the Engelstads have outlived their usefulness. A one-trick (albeit a big one) pony with perpetual sour grapes about the Sioux. Maybe they're insufferable, which is why the negotiations went south?

Or maybe Kennedy is an arrogant dick.

[streetsahead]

4 minutes ago, MrEdway said:

Or maybe Kennedy is an arrogant dick.

Those things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

32 minutes ago, MrEdway said:

Or maybe Kennedy is an arrogant dick.

I think that viewpoint had already been made clear. 25 pages ago.

[Siouxperfan7]

REA was intended to be a gift that would benefit the University of North Dakota.  And that has definitely been the case.  But you can't deny that the REA has greatly benefited from UND holding their events there, mainly hockey.  I think we would all be shocked if we knew the amount of money the Ralph was bringing in every year.  The Ralph exists because of UND hockey.  Engelstad Foundation built a world class stadium and UND hockey brings in the fans to pack the place out.  Both parties need to realize that they benefit each other.  Put stupid personal issues aside and do what is best for bothe the University and the Engelstad Foundation. 

[siouxkid12]

12 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Allow me to give everyone here a snapshot of the big picture with regard to REA, its relationship to UND and the very real and serious consequences of this issue:

• Imagine that the contract split the revenues 50-50 between UND and REA starting in 2001. Imagine the extra revenues that would have resulted from that more equitable contract.
• Now imagine all the coaches salaries that we could have increased during the critical transition period from D-II to D-I.
• Imagine the coaches we could have retained with those extra revenues (Hint: I am talking about Dale Lennon).
• Imagine the assistant coaches we could have retained instead of losing them to lateral moves to teams in our own freaking conference (which happened to MBB just last week).
• Imagine Phase II of the HPC under construction or at least close to its fundraising goals instead of being a twinkle in our eyes.
• Imagine all the championships we could have won because we had more money to invest in FB and WBB. WBB made it to the D-II national title game in Rochester, MN in March 2001. REA opened in October 2001. FB won the D-II national title on December 8th, 2001. After that point, FB and WBB had very good bordering on great teams, but couldn't quite get over the hump. This also was a time of six figure deficits in the athletic department, which Kupchella ordered solved IMMEDIATELY! Imagine what those extra revenues from REA could have done for both aforementioned programs? Gene Roebuck may have padded his legacy with 2 to 3 more national titles and UND FB might have been Grand Valley State instead of Runner-Up/Second-Fiddle/Stepping Stone U. The fact that all of this happened after REA opened makes me think it is more than a coincidence.

And now the consequences become even more important today with regard to.......

• NDSU's increasing (and sickening) advantage in athletics fundraising, athletics success and national profile. The more they win, the smaller and more insignificant we look. This has to change soon, or we we will become "that other school in North Dakota" (just typing that makes me ill). More revenues will be crucial in preventing that.
• The reality of FCOA as a permanent part of intercollegiate athletics. We cannot simply conclude that it is not "feasible" to fund FCOA and resolve to do "more with less". That is a one-way ticket straight to permanent mediocrity. We will learn what it was like to be Morningside for all those years in the old NCC. More revenues will be crucial to meeting these needs.
• Our move from the Big Sky to the Summit League and MVFC. If our programs fall flat on their faces early and often in our new leagues, it will make our problems worse and harder to overcome. More revenue can help us establish a solid foundation for the future.
• The possible upcoming CFB shake-up with regard to divisional realignment and scholarship limits. If there is another division added to CFB (a G5 division split off of the P5), we will want to position ourselves to be in that new division, not stuck in the old (and further watered-down) FCS. More revenues will be crucial to making it happen.

A more equitable REA contract would help make these problems easier to overcome and solve. Unfortunately, some people care more about soothing the hurt feelings of a rich heiress who lives in Las Vegas, NV and has admitted she doesn't care all that much about UND. I oppose that messianic "cult of personality" thinking and support doing something about this problem because I love UND, I cherish UND and I want a bright future for UND.

The contract is a joke. It is wrong. It must be fixed. And it must be fixed NOW.

(drops mic)

(exits stage right)

Forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Lennon leave due to not liking the AD?

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, siouxkid12 said:

Forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Lennon leave due to not liking the AD?

He saw UND (and that AD) planning to transition to D1 on a shoestring budget.

[UNDColorado]

1 hour ago, MrEdway said:

Or maybe Kennedy is an arrogant dick.

Or maybe Ms. McGarry is a spoiled brat? 

Point is nobody really knows and people are taking sides without knowing all of the facts. I want to know what was being negotiated, and until we fully know that it is impossible to know who is in the wrong.

[fightingsioux4life]

28 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

Forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Lennon leave due to not liking the AD?

There were many reasons he left. And no, it wasn't all about $$$$$. It was a lack of commitment to the program and the student-athletes in the program. We could have retained him if we gave him a decent bump in pay and promised him we would do more to promote and support what he was trying to do.

[northernraider]

No matter what you think about  Rob Port, at least he does his research. Maybe the Herald dhould have done the same thing?

https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry/at-the-university-of-north-dakota-another-feud-over-another-logo/

[streetsahead]

1 minute ago, northernraider said:

No matter what you think about  Rob Port, at least he does his research. Maybe the Herald dhould have done the something?

https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry/at-the-university-of-north-dakota-another-feud-over-another-logo/

I see you beat me to the punch! I'll delete mine.

[jdub27]

Wow....The REA and it's board decided to design the court how they wanted to instead of taking input from the UND President, Athletic Director and every coach who plays in the Betty because they didn't want the Fighting Hawk at center court. Kennedy calls them out and says they aren't acting in the best interest of the University of North Dakota, which puts them in violation of the governing documents of the relationship. There is also a small blurb about the Usage Agreement, reinforcing that it remains unsigned and there are disagreements on it from both sides. There was a negotiated framework presented to the REA board in February that they rejected even though Jody Hodgson and some others representing the REA helped put it together.

I guess there's no argument anymore on whether or not the REA is intentionally dragging their feet and intentionally not incorporating the new logo. And KEM's comments about it not being about the nickname seem to ring pretty hollow, especially considering JH relayed that she specifically stated she wanted to brand the floor of the BESC with the wordmark and not the logo. Not a good light shed on the REA or KEM, no wonder they went on the attack first. Assuming as soon as they heard about the open records request, they new they needed to do some damage control.

Kennedy also goes out of his way in every e-mail to express gratitude for the gifts give by the Engelstads.

[RobPort]

5 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Wow....The REA and it's board decided to design the court how they wanted to instead of taking input from the UND President, Athletic Director and every coach who plays in the Betty because they didn't want the Fighting Hawk at center court. Kennedy calls them out and says they aren't acting in the best interest of the University of North Dakota, which puts them in violation of the governing documents of the relationship. 

I guess there's no argument anymore on whether or not the REA is intentionally dragging their feet and intentionally not incorporating the new logo. And KEM's comments about it not being about the nickname seem to ring pretty hollow, especially considering JH relayed that she specifically stated she wanted to brand the floor of the BESC with the wordmark and not the logo. Not a good light shed on the REA or KEM, no wonder they went on the attack first. Assuming as soon as they heard about the open records request, they new they needed to do some damage control.

For what it's worth, the Herald's reporting on the feud is what prompted my open records request, which I put in yesterday. The university turned it around promptly which, to their credit, they typically do.

[SiouxVolley]

So McGarry and by extension Jacobs are upset by having a Hawk at center court.  This changes everything.

[Cratter]

Mark Kennedy threw a huge hissy fit about not having the Fighting Hawk logo at center court and in the process upset some very important people.

[UNDBIZ]

2 minutes ago, RobPort said:

For what it's worth, the Herald's reporting on the feud is what prompted my open records request, which I put in yesterday. The university turned it around promptly which, to their credit, they typically do.

And because it was information they wanted to be public....

Not meaning to offend, as it's more a commentary on media today, but it's disappointing that it takes a blog to get the full story because of the local paper's agenda.

[Frozen4sioux]

5 minutes ago, RobPort said:

For what it's worth, the Herald's reporting on the feud is what prompted my open records request, which I put in yesterday. The university turned it around promptly which, to their credit, they typically do.

Great job in reporting this it seems that the Herald could have done this in the first place.

My take.

If our student athletes are to snowflake hurt that they at "demoralized" by walking over the "Fighting Hawks" wordmark and then only seeing the branding wordmark at center court.

DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YA WHERE THE GOOD LORD SPLIT YA!!!    I'm sure they may find a safespace somewhere at the University of Hurt Feelings or the campus of  Whiningbitch College.  

This is basically like being invited into another persons house to live and then demanding they paint the walls the color they like. No appreciation. They can play in Hyslop.

This is a process that can not be muscled 

I believe Kennedy has blown this way out of proportion, the demands of financial harm are far fetched at best.

At this point in time Kennedy has to have some understanding that if he calls out this fight he is not going to win. Five years from now.......maybe. But he wont be here then anyway.

[ND1]

McGarry sounds like a spoiled bi&@$

 

[RobPort]

9 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

And because it was information they wanted to be public....

Not meaning to offend, as it's more a commentary on media today, but it's disappointing that it takes a blog to get the full story because of the local paper's agenda.

I don't think it's just that they may have wanted it to be public. I've made a lot of public records requests to  UND over the years, usually working with Peter Johnson. He's always done a fine job by me. And I say that as someone who has no problem being critical of the universities.

[UNDBIZ]

Just to be clear, the Betty was not a gift to UND from the Engelstad Foundation.  UND is paying the bond for that building through the REA revenue share.

[Frozen4sioux]

This whole process makes me want to change donations from the Champions Club to the REA Foundation.

18 minutes ago, RobPort said:

For what it's worth, the Herald's reporting on the feud is what prompted my open records request, which I put in yesterday. The university turned it around promptly which, to their credit, they typically do.

Rob,

Did you ever put in a records request about the 7 or 8 proposed logos that SME submitted to the university prior to selection of this one?

[Frozen4sioux]

1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said:

Just to be clear, the Betty was not a gift to UND from the Engelstad Foundation.  UND is paying the bond for that building through the REA revenue share.

Would it have happened without the Engelstad blessing? Or would UND have had to pay much much more for a standalone arena ans support staff?  Is that not taken into account?

[southpaw]

8 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

This is basically like being invited into another persons house to live and then demanding they paint the walls the color they like. No appreciation. They can play in Hyslop.

This is a process that can not be muscled 

It's actually nothing like that. Especially with a contract that says the REA is supposed to operate with the best interests of UND.

I find it hilariously hypocritical, although not surprising, you call the people who actually play for the teams represented by the logo Snowflakes.  It is apparent you're a child in this situation and are crying because it's not what you want. 

[southpaw]

This also makes it pretty clear the Hawks logo will not be at center ice...

[Frozen4sioux]

Just now, southpaw said:

It's actually nothing like that. Especially with a contract that says the REA is supposed to operate with the best interests on UND involved. 

I find it hilariously hypocritical that you call the people who actually play for the teams represented by the logo Snowflakes.  It is apparent you're a child in this situation and are crying because it's not what you want. 

The president of the university has made it an official position that the student athletes are "Demoralized" by not seeing a logo at center court.   Childish doesn't begin to describe that label he himself has applied.

I give less than two craps about the logo at center court, it matters little really, Its the principle of how the president is going about pissing off large numbers of donors AND the big BIG donors in the process.

DONT PISS OF THE DONOR BASE.   Basically the first line on a President's job description.