UND to cut women's hockey

[MafiaMan]

58 minutes ago, petey23 said:

I would bet 90% of the people reading this forum were not aware they played tonight...

Totally had no clue!

[ringneck28]

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

 

 

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I could write a book on this topic, but I'll resist lengthy dialogue on this specific issue ... for now. 

Higher education provides instruction that ultimately benefits all of society, which includes benefit to even those who do not or did not attend post-secondary institutions themselves. You want to know why tax dollars should go to higher education? Because UND and other forms of higher education both directly and indirectly help the community, region, state, country and world community. This should be self-explanatory, so I'm not going to waste my time on explaining this any further. UND's mission statement echoes this exact premise. 

https://und.edu/discover/mission-statement.cfm

I will again include the same sentence I did with my prior post.

Many people of North Dakota have a difficult time accepting higher education as a critical function of society.The State of North Dakota directly sponsors the University of North Dakota for the reasons mentioned above, yet folks would rather hemorrhage dollars with a sport program that draws less than 1,000 attendance per game and loses millions of dollars per year versus properly maintaining the academic, service, and creative integrity of UND's mission statement? Just today people are protesting that UND should drop administration positions in order to keep an unpopular, financially-inept women's hockey program - that is absolutely asinine. 

As for my University of North Dakota athletics agenda, there is a reason that 39 of the 50 states in this country have either a college football or college basketball coach as the state's highest paid public employee. Its because it directly benefits that specific university through attendance and boosters, and, thus, it also benefits that particular state. The athletic programs themselves may lose money, but how do you quantify the impact that major DI athletics has on other tangible and intangible factors, such as enrollment and longstanding alumni pride? It is quite difficult. I may not agree with the numbers that today's market has produced (multi-million dollar coaching contracts), but I agree with the premise that these programs promote pride, support, and interest for their respective universities. 

UND should want to compete with other universities around the country. As a DI athletic institution, they need to better emphasize football and/or basketball. NDSU has grown tremendously in support (via both enrollment and donor dollars) due to their football and basketball success. The same is true for universities around the country. UND should not fall victim to complacency. UND needs to look to invest in the mainstream sports - football and basketball - while maintaining hockey. I get tired of this pro- versus anti-hockey argument ( @Oxbow6 ). I donate $ and purchase season hockey tickets every season. I do not dislike the hockey program; however, I feel that program is beyond maxed out, and if UND wants to take the next step as a successful institution, it needs to better emphasize and expand DI football and basketball. 

The idea that UND should only be a "hockey school" falls right into the competition's hand. The status quo is not good enough. The prior DII status of UND was not good enough. UND athletics needs to continue to expand within the competitive environment that exists today, and I commend President Kennedy for making a logical move on Wednesday that will actually promote UND athletics forward. This is what I like: moves that confront the status quo and look to make UND more competitive within the state and within the country. 

The people of North Dakota may have a difficult time understanding higher education, but that shouldn't deter those who fully understand it. The consensus within North Dakota is not superior purely due to uniqueness; that is where isolationism comes into play. Continuing to resist change is not a strategy that treats those kindly in the end. I hope North Dakota, and even UND, figures this out sooner rather than later. 

And where are you from?

[fightingsioux08]

Can anyone give a link to the 2015 und sports revenue/expenses (or whatever year we can get all that info)

[gundy1124]

1 hour ago, Oxbow6 said:

Just heard Dom Izzo on KFGO state his go to "FB only" source, UND-FB-FAN, leaked that NDSU's AD is going to reallocate dollars and resouces from the FB program to other athletic programs because that "program is beyond maxed out" having won 5 of the last 6 FCS FB championships. 

News clip at 6 pm on WDAY..............

 

NDSU football to Alabama football, that's a gap of epic proportions.  Geographic limits do apply I understand.

UND Hockey to what........UND Hockey.  I agree this one is near maxed out.  But let's keep it maxed out and grow FB and BB.  I think that's all some are saying.

[ringneck28]

2 minutes ago, gundy1124 said:

NDSU football to Alabama football, that's a gap of epic proportions.  Geographic limits do apply I understand.

UND Hockey to what........UND Hockey.  I agree this one is near maxed out.  But let's keep it maxed out and grow FB and BB.  I think that's all some are saying.

(Gundy, this isn't directed at you)

I guess I don't understand this theory of "near maxed out".  How do you max out a program that is a premier hockey program in the nation.  So do you think that Alabama says, well we have won this many national championships, so we are maxed out?  Same with Kentucky Duke or NC basketball?  What an asinine statement.  If this is the feeling of someone who is envious of the success of the hockey program, I suggest you go to Berkley and settle for mediocrity, where this mentality belongs.  I want to max out the rafters of the Ralph  with championship banners, we can make the print smaller to fit more championships on the banners.  MAXED OUT???? Never such a thing. 

[gundy1124]

1 hour ago, ringneck28 said:

(Gundy, this isn't directed at you)

I guess I don't understand this theory of "near maxed out".  How do you max out a program that is a premier hockey program in the nation.  So do you think that Alabama says, well we have won this many national championships, so we are maxed out?  Same with Kentucky Duke or NC basketball?  What an asinine statement.  If this is the feeling of someone who is envious of the success of the hockey program, I suggest you go to Berkley and settle for mediocrity, where this mentality belongs.  I want to max out the rafters of the Ralph  with championship banners, we can make the print smaller to fit more championships on the banners.  MAXED OUT???? Never such a thing. 

No offense taken-

 

By all means, try to stack Natty's each and every year.  I want football to get there, too, albeit at FCS. I understand those who talk about basketball, too, although personally I don't care for Hoops.

[SIOUXFAN97]

interesting thing i just saw on facebook....a distant male friend of mine in town posted how stupid it was to drop wih...long ass rant about how they should "have made it work" and how unprofitable the men's team is...followed by dozens of female responses saying great post...bad und bad kennedy...so forth and so forth and then schloss comes out of nowhere talking about how "profitable" the mens team is and how the accounting is biased towards the men with the rent and faciilities cost and how the champions club is skewed towards the men and whatnot...he didn't pile on one bit. ...i found that interesting.

[UND1983]

At this point I honestly, and I mean this, want a WH supporter to come on here and tell me why it shouldn't have been cut.  Why it was the wrong decision.

We have been piling on hard about why it should be cut.  Somebody tell me the other side.  

I find myself feeling myopic about it and thinking there is another side.  I don't know.

[UNDBIZ]

4 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

This was what I meant when I said some people wanted him fired. The bolded part above could be construed as threatening the man's employment. I imagine if Schlossman had the same opinion as most of the people on here that are complaining about him, those same people would be canonizing him.

If Schloss was of the opinion the Herald should report facts regarding the cuts instead of copied and pasted twitter rants, I would definitely be more supportive of him. 

[LeftyZL]

I'm ok with this decision from a fiscal standpoint like most everyone on here.

But, I'm so sick and tired of reading articles from all over stating how successful the women's program was. Do some research. That's all.

From MPR: "One of the most successful programs in the country."

Someone from the Athletic Department needs to bring some cold, hard, financial facts to the table and soon. For every positive article, there's probably 50-100 negative articles. I'm still waiting to see a positive article, too.

They did the hard part that everyone knew had to be done, but were too scared to do before. The bandaid has been ripped off.

Now is the easy part to put facts out to justify everything. Communicate.

[cberkas]

48 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

At this point I honestly, and I mean this, want a WH supporter to come on here and tell me why it shouldn't have been cut.  Why it was the wrong decision.

We have been piling on hard about why it should be cut.  Somebody tell me the other side.  

I find myself feeling myopic about it and thinking there is another side.  I don't know.

I'd like to know if there was any way to reduce the $2 million operating cost and still keep the program.

[geaux_sioux]

8 minutes ago, cberkas said:

I'd like to know if there was any way to reduce the $2 million operating cost and still keep the program.

Turn it into intramural.

[SWSiouxMN]

31 minutes ago, cberkas said:

I'd like to know if there was any way to reduce the $2 million operating cost and still keep the program.

well for one stop the Euro trips and raid section 8/Canada/Metro more. I just don't know where they could have found the money

[ringneck28]

Now that I have settled down about the maxed out statement, IT IS STILL ASANINE

[SiouxVolley]

B1G programs that own their own rink loses millions at WIH.  They can afford it because they get underwritten by the B1G Network payments that are bigger than UND's athletic budget.  Read that Minnie gets more revenue from Ridder rental than they get from tickets, and it's still a drop in the bucket compared to expenses.  So we're supposed to underwrite a program at a huge loss that competes with B1G schools in conference that has massive funding available to them?  

Furthermore,  Eastern programs that claim to break even do it by endowments or some other accounting trick, because they don't have revenue from normal varsity sources.  Maybe the USA national team can get USA Hockey to underwrite UND WIH.  Should have checked with the Finnish or German Olympic committees to see if they would pay for a US college to develop their Olympic talent I guess.

Am amazed that Faison and Kennedy had the Cajones to drop WIH as thought the Engelstad's or Marvin's might have objected and knew the national outrage that would come from supporters of women's sports that don't put their money where their mouth is.  This would have never happened under Kelley, who would have rather taken UND back to DII than dumped a PC treasure like WIH.

[Cratter]

Told ya all Faison was The Man!

[Blackheart]

5 hours ago, petey23 said:

I would bet 90% of the people reading this forum were not aware they played tonight and now that they do will go on with whatever they were already going to do this weekend.

For some reason, this really struck me as funny.

 

[UND1983]

I see UND WH's mirror image is losing in OT on ESPN2 right now.  The streak is on the ropes......

[cberkas]

4 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

I see UND WH's mirror image is losing in OT on ESPN2 right now.  The streak is on the ropes......

That's a dive. 

[cberkas]

10 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

I see UND WH's mirror image is losing in OT on ESPN2 right now.  The streak is on the ropes......

WOW!

What a shot.

[MafiaMan]

15 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

I see UND WH's mirror image is losing in OT on ESPN2 right now.  The streak is on the ropes......

What's on ESPN2?

[cberkas]

Just now, MafiaMan said:

What's on ESPN2?

Was UConn taking their first loss.

[UND1983]

3 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

What's on ESPN2?

UConn.  Duh, bro.

[Oxbow6]

12 hours ago, gundy1124 said:

NDSU football to Alabama football, that's a gap of epic proportions.  Geographic limits do apply I understand.

UND Hockey to what........UND Hockey.  I agree this one is near maxed out.  But let's keep it maxed out and grow FB and BB.  I think that's all some are saying.

We'll agree to disagree here. Your FB analogy is unrealistic and exaggerated to make a point and I get it. Men's hockey, like it or not, is still the engine that drives the athletic department bus at UND. Due to that fact alone I hope it is not "maxed out"........which it is not. At this stage both FB and BB need hockey's success more so than the other way around. Hopefully that changes in the upcoming years. I'm banking on this year's success of both FB and BB to generate more exposure and interest in those programs. With the shoe dropping on WH there better be more dollars to infuse into both sports now. Back to "maxed out".......hypothetically if the seating at the Ralph were expanded those seats would sell no doubt about it. Attendance is somewhat maxed out due to building constraints not fan support. Ticket prices......BF could easily add a couple bucks per ticket to men's hockey to increase revenue and very few fans would blink. Exposure.........hockey's continued success nationally and with former players in the NHL right now is bigger exposure than the FB team's one playoff game to date and I say still bigger than the exposure of the one game by the MBB team in the Dance even though it was viewed by 1M+. With that being said UND's biggest opportunity IMO for all this "stuff" we are talking about is in MBB and it's not close. So if some want to continue to take shots at the MH program and down play it's vital role in the AD because of one season successes by FB and MBB again that's very ignorant and myopic. Is UND a "hockey school"...no but there is really no argument that as of today its most vital athletic program is MH.

[yzerman19]

13 hours ago, MafiaMan said:

Yea, I figured men's hockey had maximized its potential in about 2000 too.  After all, expecting more than 6,000 fams to attend a game in a town of 44,000 people is almost unrealistic.  Oh, wait...

GF has 55k people...that's the reason