Coach Jones?

[GDPritch]

4 hours ago, Cratter said:

Which part?

The part where the point in sports is to see who makes it further in the season?

Or the part where no schools #1 sport is women's basketball?

Hey, we can agree to disagree but I would consider it a better coaching job/season if a team goes 20-3 and loses in 1st round of a post-regular season tourney than if the same team goes 13-10 and loses in the 2nd round of a post-regular season tourney (especially when you're talking just 1 a game "series" where anything can happen).  Explain how not facing a school's #1 sport gives Brewster 8 free wins?  Seriously, you lost me there.

[Cratter]

17 hours ago, GDPritch said:

Hey, we can agree to disagree but I would consider it a better coaching job/season if a team goes 20-3 and loses in 1st round of a post-regular season tourney than if the same team goes 13-10 and loses in the 2nd round of a post-regular season tourney (especially when you're talking just 1 a game "series" where anything can happen).  Explain how not facing a school's #1 sport gives Brewster 8 free wins?  Seriously, you lost me there.

I'll take the team that doesn't constantly choke in the first round and goes further in the season.

13-10 with a March Madness birth all day long. But to each their own.

As you go down the list of "less popular sports" among NCAA schools (below Football and Mens basketball) it becomes easier to win by the "smaller schools." It's why Duluth can win a D1 title in hockey. It's why Coastal Carolina can win a championship in baseball,  Akron can win a championship in Soccer, and University of Portland in Women's Soccer.

 

[zonadub]

3 hours ago, Cratter said:

I'll take the team that doesn't constantly choke in the first round and goes further in the season.

13-10 with a March Madness birth all day long. But to each their own.

As you go down the list of "less popular sports" among NCAA schools (below Football and Mens basketball) it becomes easier to win by the "smaller schools." It's why Duluth can win a D1 title in hockey. It's why Coastal Carolina can win a championship in baseball,  Akron can win a championship in Soccer, and University of Portland in Women's Soccer.

 

And Denver can win a DI lacrosse and too many national hockey championships.

[gfhockey]

https://athletics.augustana.edu/coaches.aspx?rc=651&path=mbball

 

wouldnt mind this guy

[bincitysioux]

MILLER: UND’s on the wrong end of the rivalries

Quote

“I can handle losing, but when we don’t fight even when we’re undermanned without Conner … you can control your effort and your toughness.”

Jones should be able to handle losing by now, he's had a lot of practice at it.  All time leader in the loss column at UND................................

[Oxbow6]

1 minute ago, bincitysioux said:

MILLER: UND’s on the wrong end of the rivalries

Jones should be able to handle losing by now, he's had a lot of practice at it.  All time leader in the loss column at UND................................

This program has had a culture of accepting loses over and over and over. Look no further to that mentality than Jones. It starts at the top.

 

[bincitysioux]

UND.AD@und.edu

[Rebel_Sioux]

Jones only got his extension because he won the Big Sky during his contract year. Aside from that one year his tenure has largely been full of disappointments and losses. Brewster had more success earlier but has certainly been struggling recently. 

Frankly, I cant remember the last time UND fired any coach. Unless they gutted the whole sport of course. I'd be surprised if they started now, but Brewster, Jones, and Berry will all be in trouble IMO if they don't turn things around by their contract years.

[bincitysioux]

2 minutes ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

..............but Brewster, Jones, and Berry will all be in trouble IMO if they don't turn things around by their contract years.

There is no turning things around for Jones.  After 12+ seasons, we all know his capabilities.  

[Shawn-O]

He'll end up getting one more year, I won't fault Faison on this one (the four year extension) as his hand was forced coming off the Dance trip in 2017.   

[UND-FB-FAN]

13 hours ago, gfhockey said:

https://athletics.augustana.edu/coaches.aspx?rc=651&path=mbball

 

wouldnt mind this guy

I’m at the point where I wouldn’t even mind a successful DIII coach. It’s just time for leadership change.

[UND-FB-FAN]

54 minutes ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

Jones only got his extension because he won the Big Sky during his contract year. Aside from that one year his tenure has largely been full of disappointments and losses. Brewster had more success earlier but has certainly been struggling recently. 

Frankly, I cant remember the last time UND fired any coach. Unless they gutted the whole sport of course. I'd be surprised if they started now, but Brewster, Jones, and Berry will all be in trouble IMO if they don't turn things around by their contract years.

UND’s inability to hold coaches to a high standard is hurtful to UND athletics. There has to be a willingness to fire after unmet expectations or else the standard suffers horribly. I’m sick of the culture UND has right now. It is a DII mindset within DI sports.

[UND1983]

I realize that Jones has had UND in the Top 4 of the Big Sky several times, making the title game twice.  That is certainly respectable.  But this is getting stale - the level of apathy that Big Sky AD's let set in on their basketball programs is astounding.  Look at Sac State, Idaho State, Montana State, NAU.....unreal how bad those teams can be every year and they don't make a change.  

[jdub27]

8 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

UND’s inability to hold coaches to a high standard is hurtful to UND athletics. There has to be a willingness to fire after unmet expectations or else the standard suffers horribly. I’m sick of the culture UND has right now. It is a DII mindset within DI sports.

I don't think anyone actually disagrees with this, but if armchair AD's literally had their way, UND would be on the hook for around $2.8 million (ballpark) in severance pay alone if every coach people wanted fired was let go at the end of this school year: 

• $280K for MBB (2 years remaining)
• $170K for WBB (1 year remaining, though not positive)
• $645K for football (3 years remaining)
• $1.7 million for hockey (4 years remaining)

The actual answer is a little more complicated than firing everyone.

[UND1983]

1 minute ago, jdub27 said:

I don't think anyone actually disagrees with this, but if armchair AD's literally had their way, UND would be on the hook for around $2.8 million (ballpark) in severance pay alone if every coach people wanted fired was let go at the end of this school year: 

• $280K for MBB (2 years remaining)
• $170K for WBB (1 year remaining, though not positive)
• $645K for football (3 years remaining)
• $1.7 million for hockey (4 years remaining)

The actual answer is a little more complicated than firing everyone.

Lets remember that some arm-chair AD's called for no extensions when contracts were up, as well.  

[UND-FB-FAN]

14 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

I don't think anyone actually disagrees with this, but if armchair AD's literally had their way, UND would be on the hook for around $2.8 million (ballpark) in severance pay alone if every coach people wanted fired was let go at the end of this school year: 

• $280K for MBB (2 years remaining)
• $170K for WBB (1 year remaining, though not positive)
• $645K for football (3 years remaining)
• $1.7 million for hockey (4 years remaining)

The actual answer is a little more complicated than firing everyone.

Sure it’s complicated, but it’s doable for anyone truthfully determined to do so. Find more money (donors, budget reallocation, etc.) and don’t pay such binding contracts to unproven coaches. The whole mess is unfortunate despite the classic “responsibility and complication argument”.

[fightingsioux4life]

21 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

I don't think anyone actually disagrees with this, but if armchair AD's literally had their way, UND would be on the hook for around $2.8 million (ballpark) in severance pay alone if every coach people wanted fired was let go at the end of this school year: 

• $280K for MBB (2 years remaining)
• $170K for WBB (1 year remaining, though not positive)
• $645K for football (3 years remaining)
• $1.7 million for hockey (4 years remaining)

The actual answer is a little more complicated than firing everyone.

Calling for the heads of Berry and Bubba is premature at this point, although I think their seats are getting a little warm right now.

But it is quite clear that MBB and WBB are going straight down the toilet. And please don't give me examples of what happened 3, 4 and 5 years ago; recent trends for both programs are down, way down.

And I am sick of hearing how we can't afford to change anything that doesn't work. Like UND-FB-FAN said above, "...it’s doable for anyone truthfully determined to do so. Find more money (donors, budget reallocation, etc.) and don’t pay such binding contracts to unproven coaches." Chaves is going to earn his money the next couple of years and I don't envy his job right now.

Like I have said before, NDSU makes waves, while UND makes excuses. And it is getting really sickening.

[jdub27]

24 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Like I have said before, NDSU makes waves, while UND makes excuses. And it is getting really sickening.

NDSU has a dumpster fire for a WBB program that they have known about for a couple years now, yet continue to let burn because the coach still has 2 seasons remaining on her contract. They are also letting their MBB coach finish out the last year of his contract (unless he pulls out a miracle) before replacing him. This is right off the heels of them publicly announcing their VB was not going to be renewed before the season even started, though she subsequently left on her own so maybe it worked outside of absolutely killing that recruiting cycle.

So don't try to pretend that UND is on some island with how they handle coach's contract and ending them early when that's far from reality.

[fightingsioux4life]

16 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

NDSU has a dumpster fire for a WBB program that they have known about for a couple years now, yet continue to let burn because the coach still has 2 seasons remaining on her contract. They are also letting their MBB coach finish out the last year of his contract (unless he pulls out a miracle) before replacing him. This is right off the heels of them publicly announcing their VB was not going to be renewed before the season even started, though she subsequently left on her own so maybe it worked outside of absolutely killing that recruiting cycle.

So don't try to pretend that UND is on some island with how they handle coach's contract and ending them early when that's far from reality.

So NDSU isn't swimming in money after all? That is good to know. 

[darell1976]

2 hours ago, jdub27 said:

NDSU has a dumpster fire for a WBB program that they have known about for a couple years now, yet continue to let burn because the coach still has 2 seasons remaining on her contract. They are also letting their MBB coach finish out the last year of his contract (unless he pulls out a miracle) before replacing him. This is right off the heels of them publicly announcing their VB was not going to be renewed before the season even started, though she subsequently left on her own so maybe it worked outside of absolutely killing that recruiting cycle.

So don't try to pretend that UND is on some island with how they handle coach's contract and ending them early when that's far from reality.

Those coaches haven't been at the school since the DII days like Jones. He should've been canned long ago, the dance trip is the only thing that saved his butt. Mussman 2.0

[jdub27]

36 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Those coaches haven't been at the school since the DII days like Jones. He should've been canned long ago, the dance trip is the only thing that saved his butt. Mussman 2.0

Who's arguing the bolded and what is the actual relevance to how long they've been there? The point, which you apparently missed, is NDSU isn't shelling out money to get rid of coaches either. 

[darell1976]

23 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Who's arguing the bolded and what is the actual relevance to how long they've been there? The point, which you apparently missed, is NDSU isn't shelling out money to get rid of coaches either. 

And the point you missed is their coaches haven’t been there that long compared to our coaches. 

[jdub27]

9 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

And the point you missed is their coaches haven’t been there that long compared to our coaches. 

Again, what relevance does it have in terms of buying coaches out of their current contract? Jones earned his current contract by doing the only thing he could have to get it. The average, mixed bag results before that don't have much bearing. 

[ND-fan]

I like to say a lot to the critics that want all  our coaches fired here its not going to happen. Far as Jones goes he's been here long time but his record means very little first half of his tenure here because he took over the program when we were at bottom of North Central Conference in division II with team that the program had no talent on the team. Then when he was recruiting talent for division II we made the jump to division I where we had at best weak division II squad to compete. Then add in when we joined the Big Sky conference not conference to easily be apart of because traveling 3 time zones not recipe for getting best performance out your kids and second again joining a new conference where you get no breaks being new to the conference. Same thing were experiencing now with Summit conference. The next thing that has hurt him has been lack of money to spend on assistant coaches until this last contract he ceived hard to build good program when constantly loosing coaches because they can make more money elsewhere. Yes these may be excuses but they are also facts that have hurt the UND basketball. Another thing that has hurt mens basketball is hockey when it has consumed all the oxygen and fan support for winter sports in Grand Forks in last 15 years and you can't tell me it hasn't sucked money away from the basketball programs. I look at South Dakota schools basketball is there big winter sports and what is important to them at the schools and media and when they are recruiting it a big advantage because everyone wants to play in front a lot of fans night in night out. I look at other two schools in Summit conference where basketball has to compete hard with hockey in Omaha and Denver and they do have advantage over even us they are from large communities to draw fans.

Mussman is referenced to his being let go there was big difference he was starting loosing kids as well as general public confidence in his handling of the program. Jones also has lost kids in last couple of years but it was because they were in demand from top tier schools something hard to fight. Crandall to Gonzga; Shanks to Loyola; and Bernsteinto Washington; what would these players added to our record if they had finished their careers here. Also when they leave after the season like they can now it means there your always year away from replacing them with top quality recruit because major recruits are long gone. 

The reason I have not been as critical of Jones is that I see teams that get better each year and they play hard for him. Yes I would like to have winner here every year but facts of the matter are way und sports are structured now with mens basketball I don't see it happening anytime soon.  I don't believe coaching is the problem with why were not dominate program here if our current coach here had resources of some of the other universities he would have winning program. 

 

[fightingsioux4life]

13 minutes ago, ND-fan said:

I like to say a lot to the critics that want all  our coaches fired here its not going to happen. Far as Jones goes he's been here long time but his record means very little first half of his tenure here because he took over the program when we were at bottom of North Central Conference in division II with team that the program had no talent on the team. Then when he was recruiting talent for division II we made the jump to division I where we had at best weak division II squad to compete. Then add in when we joined the Big Sky conference not conference to easily be apart of because traveling 3 time zones not recipe for getting best performance out your kids and second again joining a new conference where you get no breaks being new to the conference. Same thing were experiencing now with Summit conference. The next thing that has hurt him has been lack of money to spend on assistant coaches until this last contract he ceived hard to build good program when constantly loosing coaches because they can make more money elsewhere. Yes these may be excuses but they are also facts that have hurt the UND basketball. Another thing that has hurt mens basketball is hockey when it has consumed all the oxygen and fan support for winter sports in Grand Forks in last 15 years and you can't tell me it hasn't sucked money away from the basketball programs. I look at South Dakota schools basketball is there big winter sports and what is important to them at the schools and media and when they are recruiting it a big advantage because everyone wants to play in front a lot of fans night in night out. I look at other two schools in Summit conference where basketball has to compete hard with hockey in Omaha and Denver and they do have advantage over even us they are from large communities to draw fans.

Mussman is referenced to his being let go there was big difference he was starting loosing kids as well as general public confidence in his handling of the program. Jones also has lost kids in last couple of years but it was because they were in demand from top tier schools something hard to fight. Crandall to Gonzga; Shanks to Loyola; and Bernsteinto Washington; what would these players added to our record if they had finished their careers here. Also when they leave after the season like they can now it means there your always year away from replacing them with top quality recruit because major recruits are long gone. 

The reason I have not been as critical of Jones is that I see teams that get better each year and they play hard for him. Yes I would like to have winner here every year but facts of the matter are way und sports are structured now with mens basketball I don't see it happening anytime soon.  I don't believe coaching is the problem with why were not dominate program here if our current coach here had resources of some of the other universities he would have winning program. 

So we should give Jones an extension? Doh-Kay.  #mediocrityU