2017 Season

[UND1983]

3 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Bubba's 4th year at the helm...........who's players are most of these kids?  Not saying injuries have not contributed to a 2-6 record to an extent but if you are on a D1 roster you should not look and play like you are a back-up at Hillsboro HS.  

......didn't UND just get rolled by a 4th string QB???

3rd string...and he was throwing at an 18 year old true freshman who shouldn't be playing for all those yards.  Hardly an impressive performance.

[BigGame]

2 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

 if you are on a D1 roster you should not look and play like you are a back-up at Hillsboro HS.  

 

"At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

[Oxbow6]

1 minute ago, BigGame said:

"At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Well played

[Oxbow6]

4 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

3rd string...and he was throwing at an 18 year old true freshman who shouldn't be playing for all those yards.  Hardly an impressive performance.

Well....now we can all feel better about that loss.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

My expectations are to win.  I want this team and school to win regardless of the circumstances.  Obviously we aren't winning enough this season, so it needs to be fixed. 

[UND1983]

6 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Well....now we can all feel better about that loss.

You can if you want.  You were the one loving up how well their QB played.  

[Midwestern Hawk]

2 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Well....now we can all feel better about that loss.

In 2017 we have found out....

Our defense is not very good with 3rd string ILB and and 2nd string corners and safeties. 

Our D line, while experience needs more size and explosiveness overall.

Our O line still needs alot of work.

Our S & C needs to be reworked.

Our offensive coordinator needs to be replaced.

Our defensive coordinaror needs to be more flexible and inventive.

Our backup qb is zimmerman and not heidellbaugh.

The team needs to find some leaders to step up in the future to improve the culture and the focus on football.

[Irish]

16 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

In 2017 we have found out....

Our defense is not very good with 3rd string ILB and and 2nd string corners and safeties. 

Our D line, while experience needs more size and explosiveness overall.

Our O line still needs alot of work.

Our S & C needs to be reworked.

Our offensive coordinator needs to be replaced.

Our defensive coordinaror needs to be more flexible and inventive.

Our backup qb is zimmerman and not heidellbaugh.

The team needs to find some leaders to step up in the future to improve the culture and the focus on football.

The big question is how much of this Bubba will actively try to fix.  He seems to be complicit in our having little flexibility and in supporting our pathetic offensive strategies.  Will he have the insight to make the needed changes?  

[northernraider]

Question for those more inside football than me. How does a school like UND even get recruits. We are not gonna compete with Ohio State for the Blue Chippers. How do they determine if a player is not a 5 star recruit, but still college potential. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

7 minutes ago, Irish said:

The big question is how much of this Bubba will actively try to fix.  He seems to be complicit in our having little flexibility and in supporting our pathetic offensive strategies.  Will he have the insight to make the needed changes?  

Let's win this one tomorrow, say for the injured!

Then on two very tough finishes, Bubba can supply Rudolph with a couple aspirin for a prescription misfire and a playbook transplant. Every offensive play called will be one that the Hawks have not used this season, what we have to lose?

[Midwestern Hawk]

17 minutes ago, northernraider said:

Question for those more inside football than me. How does a school like UND even get recruits. We are not gonna compete with Ohio State for the Blue Chippers. How do they determine if a player is not a 5 star recruit, but still college potential. 

Great question.  The process usually starts out with high school coaches determining who can play and at what level and then the coaches will contact the college football teams that fit the kids ability and potential in the coaches opinion.  This is done via email and phone calls, with the larger high schools that produce multiple players receiving regular visits from college recruiters.  The college recruiting teams analyze film trying to recognize potential.  Most schools then contact the kid via email, twitter, phone calls or personal visits depending on the age of the kid and the level of interest on both sides.  Most schools will also try and get face to face contact with the kid before making an offer either at the kids school or getting him to attend a summer camp.

The problem with all of this IMO is the recruiting process is much more intense in different parts of the country, different parts of the same state or even in the same city depending on the high schools success on the field and the connections the coach has made and the recruits placed over the years.  Football is far tougher than say basketball, because you rarely get to see the kid compete and participate vs his skill and ability level peers.  There are no summer AAU leagues and such, which results in lots of mistakes by recruiters, both in thinking  a kid is far better than he is or a kid that goes way under the radar based on the which state he goes to high school in and how connected his coach is.  Its why UND gets kids like Santiago Reyes etc.  Its why Carson Wentz went from almost unrecruited to the #2 pick in the draft.  If he went to high school in Florida, Louisiana, Texas or California would have been a 4-5 star recruit and never ended up at NDSU.  Its also why 3-4 star recruits never end up playing a down in college.

[77iceman]

Knowing where the season is now, I just hope the last few games are fun to watch.  Go for it on fourth, maybe some fake punts, a pass on first down . . . you know.

Fans have been going through the grieving process this season.  I'm at the "accept it" stage, and will enjoy the rest of the season.  Just made plans for my trip to the Southern Utah game (by way of Las Vegas).  I'm determined to have fun this season.

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, jdub27 said:

Take a look at the depth charts of those teams. You aren't going to see more than a handful of True/Red shirt freshman on the 2-deeps.

Having unrealistic expectations also can put a program into a tailspin because they are never met. Either I'm misunderstanding your expectations or they are completely out of whack. Programs at the FCS level don't bring in 10-12 kids who are ready to play at the top of the FCS level Day 1. If they were, they wouldn't be in the FCS. Kids like that are 3*+ kids, who go to bigger schools. FCS schools bring in lesser rated kids and take a couple years to turn them into 3*+ kids. Yes, there are going to be a handful that come in and contribute immediately. The majority of that is due to need with a handful sprinkled in that are just that good.

Well, why are there freshmen on the two deep, then? Bubba has been here four seasons, not one or two. There should be better depth. It's not there - that's on some or all of the coaching staff for failing to recruit, retain, develop, and improvise. Stop making excuses. It's not unrealistic to expect UND to be able to win every season (UNI, SDSU, EWU caliber). If you want UND to be a program of Portland State or Southern Utah's caliber, then keep up the current banter. 

[homer]

6 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Well, why are there freshmen on the two deep, then? Bubba has been here four seasons, not one or two. There should be better depth. It's not there - that's on some or all of the coaching staff for failing to recruit, retain, develop, and improvise. Stop making excuses. It's not unrealistic to expect UND to be able to win every season (UNI, SDSU, EWU caliber). If you want UND to be a program of Portland State or Southern Utah's caliber, then keep up the current banter. 

SDSU is playing with a bunch of freshmen on defense.  While they have two NFL guys in offense, they can’t stop anyone on defense and will likely face an early playoff exit.  Weird. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, UNDColorado said:

Step back from the ledge please.

This results of this UND football season are not acceptable. Please acknowledge that before using "doom and gloom" accusations as a way to get through it. Changes are a must and I'm articulating why. What changes remain to be seen. I'm not implying a complete implosion of the current staff or methodology. 

So, recognize that ... please.

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 minutes ago, homer said:

SDSU is playing with a bunch of freshmen on defense.  While they have two NFL guys in offense, they can’t stop anyone on defense and will likely face an early playoff exit.  Weird. 

Weird, did you say playoffs?

UND has eliminated that word from their vocabulary this season.

 

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Let's win this one tomorrow, say for the injured!

 

Win one for the gimpers?

[geaux_sioux]

12 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Weird, did you say playoffs?

UND has eliminated that word from their vocabulary this season.

 

Could you pass the salt?

[Siouxperman8]

3 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Whatever makes you sleep at night. A 2015 7-4 and 2016 9-3 consecutive season record should be enough to at least bring in some quality recruits that can be competitive backups in the Big Sky Conference. Very few RS sophomores are playing that are making a impact. I guess my expectations are too great for this program according to some. It's not unrealistic because there's more than enough standards around the country to prove otherwise. Just look 80 miles south. I understand that comparison will provoke many on this board, but it is from a success standpoint, not a jealousy or rivalry standpoint. For that matter, look at what EWU and James Madison are doing. 

Someone brought up the theory that UND should be inferior to NDSU because of city size. Well then, Northwestern should be a  better football program than Wisconsin. Or  the University of Minnesota should have a better football program than Ohio State. City size absolutely doesn't correlate with college football program success; its based on alumni support and the subsequent appropriate allocation to the football program. HPC phase II is such a must in this regard. 

I have also talked with some of the coaches that turned things around in the late 80's.  They had the same story as today.  You need to win more recruiting battles and it doesn't happen overnight and doesn't happen until you have had sustained success.  the kids we got after going 7-4 and 9-3 are in their first or second year in the program and you can't win if you have to play too many of them all of the time. We are not far enough along to be able to withstand the volume of injuries we have had. 

[Sioux94]

30 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I have also talked with some of the coaches that turned things around in the late 80's.  They had the same story as today.  You need to win more recruiting battles and it doesn't happen overnight and doesn't happen until you have had sustained success.  the kids we got after going 7-4 and 9-3 are in their first or second year in the program and you can't win if you have to play too many of them all of the time. We are not far enough along to be able to withstand the volume of injuries we have had. 

Exactly

So if you look at the current roster and if you assume all players redshirted like we would want in a perfect world:

Seniors - Mussman recruits  (there are a few guys in this class like Studs and Dranka that had their shirts pulled of course because our cupboard wasn't very full, and would have normally been in the junior class)

Juniors - hodge podge, Bubba didn't take over until like December 30th for this class we had no coach for over a month, we sucked as a team and our coach was just fired.  Bubba's staff which wouldn't have been in place until sometime in January was filling out the class as best as they could and I would guess some of these guys may not have actually gotten offers from Bubba's staff a year later.  I didn't say it at the time, but there was one player in this class that I was surprised got an offer but I think they were just filling it out with what they could. He also is no longer on the team, I'm thinking he was a good kid but he was just buried in the depth chart and wasn't ever really going to see the field which I believe is why he quit (but I do not know the reason for sure).  This  validated my initial thought in being surprised he got an offer.  He got an offer because they needed warm bodies during this recruiting class. 

Sophomores - Full Bubba recruits, recruited during our 5-7 year.  So these recruits were recruited to a a team that still had a losing record, and no recent success in the FCS. Given the last few years of Mussman regime, many teams still saw North Dakota as somewhat of a doormat at this time.

Freshman -  Full Bubba recruits , recruited during our 7-4 season

Redshirt freshman - Recruited during our 9-3 season.  Hero ranked this recruiting class at #26 in the FCS, so not top 10....but not bad either.  Ott being rated the #24 overall recruit in the FCS, Noah Larson also looks to be a stud and had the size to play as a true freshman if he wasn't injured. 

To me these are the reasons why I'm not raising holy hell and saying Bubba doesn't know how to recruit.  There may be some valid concerns that have been raised, but I think it is still too early to tell, and the verdict is still out.  

 

 

[geaux_sioux]

It will be insteresting to compare our early commits from this year to or late ones given our we went from top 5 preseason to a train wreck.

[UND-FB-FAN]

16 minutes ago, Sioux94 said:

Exactly

So if you look at the current roster and if you assume all players redshirted like we would want in a perfect world:

Seniors - Mussman recruits  (there are a few guys in this class like Studs and Dranka that had their shirts pulled of course because our cupboard wasn't very full, and would have normally been in the junior class)

Juniors - hodge podge, Bubba didn't take over until like December 30th for this class we had no coach for over a month, we sucked as a team and our coach was just fired.  Bubba's staff which wouldn't have been in place until sometime in January was filling out the class as best as they could and I would guess some of these guys may not have actually gotten offers from Bubba's staff a year later.  I didn't say it at the time, but there was one player in this class that I was surprised got an offer but I think they were just filling it out with what they could. He also is no longer on the team, I'm thinking he was a good kid but he was just buried in the depth chart and wasn't ever really going to see the field which I believe is why he quit (but I do not know the reason for sure).  This  validated my initial thought in being surprised he got an offer.  He got an offer because they needed warm bodies during this recruiting class. 

Sophomores - Full Bubba recruits, recruited during our 5-7 year.  So these recruits were recruited to a a team that still had a losing record, and no recent success in the FCS. Given the last few years of Mussman regime, many teams still saw North Dakota as somewhat of a doormat at this time.

Freshman -  Full Bubba recruits , recruited during our 7-4 season

Redshirt freshman - Recruited during our 9-3 season.  Hero ranked this recruiting class at #26 in the FCS, so not top 10....but not bad either.  Ott being rated the #24 overall recruit in the FCS, Noah Larson also looks to be a stud and had the size to play as a true freshman if he wasn't injured. 

To me these are the reasons why I'm not raising holy hell and saying Bubba doesn't know how to recruit.  There may be some valid concerns that have been raised, but I think it is still too early to tell, and the verdict is still out.  

 

 

That's a long, detailed analysis and I appreciate the work you did there. I agree with some of that from a recruiting standpoint, but I still think there should be more juniors and sophomores in the two-deep. The fact that those classes have been almost completely disregarded is very troublesome. 

Based on these analyses, most coaches should take 5 or more years to achieve consistent success; however, that is not the case. Most successful coaches can change the culture and implement their scheme in a way that allows for success in two to three years. Bubba did that at UND (5-7 to 7-4 to 9-3) and that was promising. However, this season of injury shows that the lapses in recruiting are problematic and it needs to be addressed. Additionally, and probably most worrisome, is that the scheme has not been adjusted to best fit the available players. It has been a case of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I am confident that changes and subsequent improvement can and hopefully will occur, because 2-6 is not acceptable at UND even given the circumstances. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

That's a long, detailed analysis and I appreciate the work you did there. I agree with some of that from a recruiting standpoint, but I still think there should be more juniors and sophomores in the two-deep. The fact that those classes have been almost completely disregarded is very troublesome. 

Based on these analyses, most coaches should take 5 or more years to achieve consistent success; however, that is not the case. Most successful coaches can change the culture and implement their scheme in a way that allows for success in two to three years. Bubba did that at UND (5-7 to 7-4 to 9-3) and that was promising. However, this season of injury shows that the lapses in recruiting are problematic and it needs to be addressed. Additionally, and probably most worrisome, is that the scheme has not been adjusted to best fit the available players. It has been a case of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I am confident that changes and subsequent improvement can and hopefully will occur, because 2-6 is not acceptable at UND even given the circumstances. 

The offense has not compensated for the injuries and problems along the offensive line nor the injuries and change in the defense.  The ball control, grind it out offense needs to adapt when the Oline is not getting push and also when the other team is scoring in 3 plays is gaining 10 yards a rush.  When the other team is scoring points in bunches, you can't run  it off tackle for 2 yards and then think you will complete a pass when the QB is running for his life because everyone knows you have to pass. 

I also think the DC needs to be able to adjust the defense to who he has to play.  Take more chances, at points this season we really have had nothing to lose with some of the guys we have been lining up on d. 

The lack of OC and DC adjustments,  along with the rate of injuries, the number of illnesses and the dismissals are all issues that need to be dealt with head on starting on the 13th of November.  Too many guys not focused on football.  I understand if the lack of focus is on God, family or the classroom but I don't think that is always the problem.

 Here is a list from memory of the guys off the original 2-deep that have missed games and the reason:

OL-Demon Taylor - Injured in 2nd game and subsequently dismissed

-OLAJ Stockwell - missed multiple games or parts of games due to injury

OL-Grant Aplin - missed at least one game

OL-Matt Cox - missed multiple games due to injury

WR-Travis Toivenen-Missed Montana game

WR-Josh Seibel  - Out for season

TE-Luke Fielder - Out multiple games due to injury and pneumonia

FB-Kyle Norberg - Out for the season broken collarbone

WR-Noah Wanzek - missed Cal-Davis game due to illness

WR-Cam McKinney-Redshirt due to injury

RB-Austin Gordon-suspended for season

OLB-Ray Haas-out multiple games due to sickness and/or something else

DL-Mason Bennett-missed Cal-Davis game

ILBJake Disterhaupt-missed multiple games due to foot injury

ILB-Donnell Rodgers-Played 1.5 games out indefinitely

ILB-Jake Geier-What happened to him?

CB-Evan Holm-out multiple games due to injury

SS-Reyes-missed last half of season due to injury

SS-Andre Randolph-Knee injury and subsequent dismissal from the team

Subsequent contributors have also missed games

ILB Rastas-suspended for first game

SS-Tamas Stewart-injury

ILB-Multiple games due to injury

Probable contributor:

ILB-Noah Larson-redshirt due to injury

Preseason:

ILB-Connor O'Brien-chronic head injury

OLB-Keelan Poole-Kicked off team

CB-Deion Harris-Injury out for season

 

I have been around football most of my life and have never seen anything approaching this.

 

 

 

 

[Irish]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

That's a long, detailed analysis and I appreciate the work you did there. I agree with some of that from a recruiting standpoint, but I still think there should be more juniors and sophomores in the two-deep. The fact that those classes have been almost completely disregarded is very troublesome. 

Based on these analyses, most coaches should take 5 or more years to achieve consistent success; however, that is not the case. Most successful coaches can change the culture and implement their scheme in a way that allows for success in two to three years. Bubba did that at UND (5-7 to 7-4 to 9-3) and that was promising. However, this season of injury shows that the lapses in recruiting are problematic and it needs to be addressed. Additionally, and probably most worrisome, is that the scheme has not been adjusted to best fit the available players. It has been a case of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I am confident that changes and subsequent improvement can and hopefully will occur, because 2-6 is not acceptable at UND even given the circumstances. 

I am less confident, but still hopeful, that changes will occur, mainly because we have not seen one ounce of adjustment so far this season.  I'm not sure what bolt of clarity will hit the coaches when the season is over.  

[Oxbow6]

On the "Who's available" report this just in: UND-FB-FAN and Irish are day to day heading into the weekend.