Moo U diaries

[jdub27]

5 minutes ago, Herd said:

I think cutting DI hockey scholarships in half would be a good idea, and would have no impact on the sport.

So in your mind, 18 cut to 9 is equal to 45 cut to 36....?

[geaux_sioux]

8 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

So in your mind, 18 cut to 9 is equal to 45 cut to 36....?

He's pertty gerd ert merth

[Herd]

7 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

So in your mind, 18 cut to 9 is equal to 45 cut to 36....?

Just an example of how reductions make an impact, that I assumed even you could understand.

[bang]

19 minutes ago, Herd said:

I think cutting DI hockey scholarships in half would be a good idea, and would have no impact on the sport.

Our tradition and facilities would still produce a top 5 D-1 hockey team every year. That would not change. What it might do is drive down the talent pool in college hockey and force some talent that would play college hockey either go pro or major junior. In college football players don't have that option to play elsewhere. Not sure what you're getting at. 

[Bison06]

28 minutes ago, bang said:

Our tradition and facilities would still produce a top 5 D-1 hockey team every year. That would not change. What it might do is drive down the talent pool in college hockey and force some talent that would play college hockey either go pro or major junior. In college football players don't have that option to play elsewhere. Not sure what you're getting at. 

Maybe UND would still be top 5, maybe not. When you change the rules of a game, some people adapt to those rule changes faster than others.

UND has mastered college hockey under it's current format, if things were to change they would have to adapt to those changes. Maybe another team would take advantage of that faster than UND, maybe not. Hard to say.

[jdub27]

7 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Maybe UND would still be top 5, maybe not. When you change the rules of a game, some people adapt to those rule changes faster than others.

UND has mastered college hockey under it's current format, if things were to change they would have to adapt to those changes. Maybe another team would take advantage of that faster than UND, maybe not. Hard to say.

You're right, just hypotheticals. The only thing we can be sure of is that NDSU struggled to adapt and maintain previous level's of success when they didn't have a scholarship advantage over other schools in Division 2. Glad we cleared that up.

[Bison06]

16 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

You're right, just hypotheticals. The only thing we can be sure of is that NDSU struggled to adapt and maintain previous level's of success when they didn't have a scholarship advantage over other schools in Division 2. Glad we cleared that up.

NDSU turned out just fine I think.

[jdub27]

Just now, Bison06 said:

NDSU turned out just fine I think.

Did I say they didn't? They have done a spectacular job at the FCS level.

[Bison06]

3 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Did I say they didn't? They have done a spectacular job at the FCS level.

Even in D2 they were fine. I think that's what always gets lost in this conversation. NDSU in the 90's was very successful. Just not by their previous standards. The difference between winning and losing is at times minuscule. The scholarship change among other factors just shifted them to the other side of that very thin line between winning and losing.

[Cratter]

1 hour ago, Herd said:

I think cutting DI hockey scholarships in half would be a good idea, and would have no impact on the sport.

I think they should cut it to 0.

Watch UND really rise.

[bang]

11 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Maybe UND would still be top 5, maybe not. When you change the rules of a game, some people adapt to those rule changes faster than others.

UND has mastered college hockey under it's current format, if things were to change they would have to adapt to those changes. Maybe another team would take advantage of that faster than UND, maybe not. Hard to say.

The way I look at it is recruiting and graduation forces change every year. There is probably a different amount of scholarships to give out every year. The variables involved in scholarship distribution is part of what makes a coaching staff good recruiters. Talent evaluation is just part of it. A big part of it is scholarship management. 

If you guys haven't seen watch the second 30 for 30 on the U. It has a big segment about what Butch Davis did to overcome all the scholarship reductions at the school after NCAA sanctions were set against them. It was great. He didn't sit around and whine about what he had to work with. He got creative and managed the scholarships allotted to him. 

Rocky failed to recreate dream teams when put on a level field. He was forced to become a all around recruiter and became slightly above average as a result. Since then Bohl came in and showed everybody how to win when at a disadvantage (probation period). 

Like I said earlier. I'd love to see Rocky comeback. 

[darell1976]

1 hour ago, Bison06 said:

Even in D2 they were fine. I think that's what always gets lost in this conversation. NDSU in the 90's was very successful. Just not by their previous standards. The difference between winning and losing is at times minuscule. The scholarship change among other factors just shifted them to the other side of that very thin line between winning and losing.

Really? No playoff games at all in the Fargodome successful? Okay.

[JohnboyND7]

30 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Really? No playoff games at all in the Fargodome successful? Okay.

6 trips to the playoffs and a national championship...aka, pretty similar to the best decade in UND history.

A down decade/season for one team can be the season of a lifetime for another. 

 

[Bison06]

15 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Really? No playoff games at all in the Fargodome successful? Okay.

NDSU football 1990-1999

Overall record of 88-27(76% winning percentage)

1 National championship 

4 conference championships

6 Playoff appearances, which includes 3 national quarterfinal appearances not counting the national championship year

Finished in the top 20 in the DII polls 6 of the 10 years

UND football 1990-1999

Overall record of 73-27-1(72% winning percentage)

No national championships

4 conference championships

6 Playoff appearances, including 2 national semifinal appearances

 

So...yeah I feel pretty confident in saying that NDSU in the 1990's was pretty damn successful. Just not in comparison to the insane amount of dominance they showed in the 80's.

 

[Siouxperfan7]

8 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

NDSU football 1990-1999

Overall record of 88-27(76% winning percentage)

1 National championship 

4 conference championships

6 Playoff appearances, which includes 3 national quarterfinal appearances not counting the national championship year

Finished in the top 20 in the DII polls 6 of the 10 years

UND football 1990-1999

Overall record of 73-27-1(72% winning percentage)

No national championships

4 conference championships

6 Playoff appearances, including 2 national semifinal appearances

 

So...yeah I feel pretty confident in saying that NDSU in the 1990's was pretty damn successful. Just not in comparison to the insane amount of dominance they showed in the 80's.

 

Head to head record in the 90's - UND 6 wins, NDSU 5 wins.  Because that is the stat that really matters!!! 

#nickelgamesmatter

[Bison06]

5 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Head to head record in the 90's - UND 6 wins, NDSU 5 wins.  Because that is the stat that really matters!!! 

#nickelgamesmatter

You definitely have us there.

You noticed that I left that little detail out huh? Somehow the head to head completely slipped my mind to type in my post. 

[darell1976]

1 hour ago, Bison06 said:

NDSU football 1990-1999

Overall record of 88-27(76% winning percentage)

1 National championship 

4 conference championships

6 Playoff appearances, which includes 3 national quarterfinal appearances not counting the national championship year

Finished in the top 20 in the DII polls 6 of the 10 years

UND football 1990-1999

Overall record of 73-27-1(72% winning percentage)

No national championships

4 conference championships

6 Playoff appearances, including 2 national semifinal appearances

 

So...yeah I feel pretty confident in saying that NDSU in the 1990's was pretty damn successful. Just not in comparison to the insane amount of dominance they showed in the 80's.

 

NDSU hosted 5 playoff games all at Dacotah Field, and except for 1990 they didn't have a 0 or 1 loss season from 1991-2005 compared to 4 of them from 1982-1988. Just like in previous decades they rise and fall rise and fall. Usually NDSU's rise is UND's fall, and vice versa. Its a little complicated now with both teams rising as we are in different conferences. 

[Bison06]

18 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

NDSU hosted 5 playoff games all at Dacotah Field, and except for 1990 they didn't have a 0 or 1 loss season from 1991-2005 compared to 4 of them from 1982-1988. Just like in previous decades they rise and fall rise and fall. Usually NDSU's rise is UND's fall, and vice versa. Its a little complicated now with both teams rising as we are in different conferences. 

I'm not sure what you're getting at darell. We're agreeing that the 90's weren't as dominant as the 80's. 

But you make it sound like the 90's are some sort of dark age in NDSU football. There are very, very few college programs that would look at a decade stretch like what NDSU had from 90-99 and not call that a very successful decade.

ln fact, UND fans see the 90's as their rise to glory and as the above numbers show, they had nearly identical decades in terms of success.

[darell1976]

25 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

I'm not sure what you're getting at darell. We're agreeing that the 90's weren't as dominant as the 80's. 

But you make it sound like the 90's are some sort of dark age in NDSU football. There are very, very few college programs that would look at a decade stretch like what NDSU had from 90-99 and not call that a very successful decade.

ln fact, UND fans see the 90's as their rise to glory and as the above numbers show, they had nearly identical decades in terms of success.

The 80's showed NDSU's dominance and UND knocking on the basement door with Morningside, the 90's showed how UND rose and how NDSU fell. You didn't fall as hard as UND did in 81-92, but you fell out of national title appearances, undefeated seasons and starting in 93 you fell out of home playoff games. UND capped off their rise in 01 and 03 with NC appearances and a title. Your rise to fame didn't come until you bolted, and now UND is rising again, so now both ND teams are hosting playoff games, who is going to fall back to earth and who is going to stay up in the clouds? We shall see.

[Hardcore Hawk]

32 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

The 80's showed NDSU's dominance and UND knocking on the basement door with Morningside, the 90's showed how UND rose and how NDSU fell. You didn't fall as hard as UND did in 81-92, but you fell out of national title appearances, undefeated seasons and starting in 93 you fell out of home playoff games. UND capped off their rise in 01 and 03 with NC appearances and a title. Your rise to fame didn't come until you bolted, and now UND is rising again, so now both ND teams are hosting playoff games, who is going to fall back to earth and who is going to stay up in the clouds? We shall see.

Does a team have to fall back to earth? Since the two are not in the same conference, I don't think the success of one and the lack of success of the other is as intertwined as it used to be

[Texas rancher]

27 minutes ago, Hardcore Hawk said:

Does a team have to fall back to earth? Since the two are not in the same conference, I don't think the success of one and the lack of success of the other is as intertwined as it used to be

Leave him alone on his little island of make believe, he is obviously very happy there.

[Siouxperman8]

1 hour ago, darell1976 said:

The 80's showed NDSU's dominance and UND knocking on the basement door with Morningside, the 90's showed how UND rose and how NDSU fell. You didn't fall as hard as UND did in 81-92, but you fell out of national title appearances, undefeated seasons and starting in 93 you fell out of home playoff games. UND capped off their rise in 01 and 03 with NC appearances and a title. Your rise to fame didn't come until you bolted, and now UND is rising again, so now both ND teams are hosting playoff games, who is going to fall back to earth and who is going to stay up in the clouds? We shall see.

Not really fair to say that UND was a bottom dweller 81-84.  We didn't fall off the map until 85.  

Records in the early 80's weren't terrible and a couple of 3 loss seasons:

• 1980 - 6-4
• 1981 - 6-4
• 1982 - 7-3
• 1983 - 6-5
• 1984 - 8-3
•  

[darell1976]

9 hours ago, Texas rancher said:

Leave him alone on his little island of make believe, he is obviously very happy there.

What's make believe about what I said? You worried NDSU will go into a title funk with UND starting to get into the playoffs? History loves repeating itself.

[darell1976]

9 hours ago, Hardcore Hawk said:

Does a team have to fall back to earth? Since the two are not in the same conference, I don't think the success of one and the lack of success of the other is as intertwined as it used to be

Fall back to earth just meaning back with the pack like NDSU did from the 80's to the 90's. Now they lost in the playoffs at home will that continue or will they be in Frisco next season. The different conferences is a twist in this part of history.

[darell1976]

9 hours ago, Siouxperman8 said:

Not really fair to say that UND was a bottom dweller 81-84.  We didn't fall off the map until 85.  

Records in the early 80's weren't terrible and a couple of 3 loss seasons:

• 1980 - 6-4
• 1981 - 6-4
• 1982 - 7-3
• 1983 - 6-5
• 1984 - 8-3
•  

We were good til the fallout of Behrns and the start of the Thomas era. Those seasons were rough.