If Big Ten Offers UND Should They Join?

[siouxkid12]

10 hours ago, UNDvince97-01 said:

Can you help me understand how you know this to be true?...

By reading, you and cratter should try it...

[UND1983]

17 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

By reading, you and cratter should try it...

Link please.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

If the B1G asks UND to join. Here's one way you compare the B1G to the NCHC.

You put UND in the middle, and compare the 7 team B1G to 7 teams left in the NCHC.

UND has been in a conference with 12 of the 14 teams.

                                        B1G                    UND                  NCHC

National Champs               23                           8                     9

Frozen 4's                          71                          22                   33

NCAA's                             139                          31                  88 

Winning %  NCAA's         .582                        .675                .470

Record in NCAA's           184-132                 52-25               79-89

Avg Yr started Div1          1958                       1947              1969

Avg Arena size                 9,565                    11,640               7,184

Last Season #'s :

Home Games                    126                          19                    122

Home Av Attendance      6,476                       11,675              4,834

Enrollment in 1,000's           50                           15                   13.7

Away Av Attendance                   

# games televised

Network ratings

Avg RPI                            .5138                       .6082             .5262

Head Coach Salary

Season Ticket Holders

I gathered most info from Wikipedia and USCHO and will try to fill in the blanks later.

B1G is probably doing better than most realize?

If anyone knows any of above missing stats, appreciate the help?

Edited May 1, 2016 by BarnWinterSportsEngelstad
Corrected winning % & RPI

[UNDvince97-01]

12 hours ago, siouxkid12 said:

By reading, you and cratter should try it...

Oh cmon, all I'm saying is that I was unsuccessful finding where it says the B1G "would never offer guaranteed affiliate membership to UND".

Maybe you can help us out by showing where you found that.

I would be more than happy to read it and then admit you were right.

[The Sicatoka]

On 4/30/2016 at 4:52 AM, Redneksioux said:

Before this season I recall Brad saying there could be an interesting situation requiring und to think out of the box regarding their tv deal. Could a big ten offer be what he was referring to?

Midco went after NDSU MBB in it's latest deal. I figured that was to get more Fargo market share. 

I wonder if Midco did that for other reasons, like what is referenced here. What would make Midco nervous? Could Fox Sports North be looking at taking a run at UND hockey filling the role Minnesota hockey used to fill for them. That would require thinking outside the box for UND. 

[tnt]

3 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Midco went after NDSU MBB in it's latest deal. I figured that was to get more Fargo market share. 

I wonder if Midco did that for other reasons, like what is referenced here. What would make Midco nervous? Could Fox Sports North be looking at taking a run at UND hockey filling the role Minnesota hockey used to fill for them. That would require thinking outside the box for UND. 

...  and like some suggested, maybe Dan Hammer saw the writing on the wall.

[The Sicatoka]

Television option being Midco, or part of the B1G, or maybe FSN. That's crazy. Crazy good!

[UND-RedSox fan]

On 4/30/2016 at 1:35 AM, Blackheart said:

So most are saying if the money is right, we go....well the money was right for the Gofers and look what they got...they gave up bus rides to long time rivals for plane rides to hockey wastelands (that's you OSU, MSU, and Penn St).  FSN contract went bye bye so they could play Monday nights at 11 pm on BTN, after women's basketball and men's lacrosse.  Oh, and the Final 5, which was the highest attended conference tourney in D1 hockey and in your backyard every year is now the B1G Mistake tourney which is now alternated between the X and Joe Louis Arena.  Let's just say the attendance has suffered a bit.  The Gofers did not have a choice here...the B1G Mistake said you are going to carry the water on this one until it's successful so until then, suck it up.  Just cash your check and keep your mouth shut.  I do not blame the Minny fans for not showing up for these games.  They know the product on the ice is not competitive on a national level and they are pissed.  So think about that, Sioux fans, before you sell your soul to a conference that is definitely not 'Hockey First'. 

Last year the B1G had 11 total games that weren't on a Friday or Saturday (excluding games over Christmas break) and every single one was on a Thursday or Sunday. Of those 11 games, 2 involved Minnesota and none involved Wisconsin. Seven of those games were non-conference games. We played more non Fri/Sat games than Wisconsin this year. So the talk about games on weird days of the week would have little to no impact on UND.

What do you think a Big 10 tournament in St. Paul with UND, Minnesota, and Wisconsin would look like? I think it would look similar to the old Final 5 days. The Big 10 would quickly realize that the most money would come from hosting the tournament in St. Paul and permanently keep it there. And the NCHC tournament would look just about as bad as the B1G tournament if UND would fail to make it there.

Ideally we would go back to how everything was prior to Penn State starting but that's never happening. I don't know if the B1G or NCHC is better for UND but week day games (not true) and poor conference tournaments (NCHC is bad too) are poor reasons to not want the B1G. 

[The Sicatoka]

This will churn on the "good old days" crowd:

UND went 13 years in the good old days without a Championship. Just 3 years of the new era ... RAISE IT. 

[Ronix]

I say we play the hand and accept an offer if and only if we become a full athletic member. Only reasonable that the states flagship university is in a Power 5. 

And the two men's teams on the chopping block (baseball & golf) are saved as the B1G sanctions both sports. 

[UNDBIZ]

1 hour ago, Ronix said:

I say we play the hand and accept an offer if and only if we become a full athletic member. Only reasonable that the states flagship university is in a Power 5. 

And the two men's teams on the chopping block (baseball & golf) are saved as the B1G sanctions both sports. 

So what you're really saying is we should never go to the B1G.

[OshieRoll]

On 5/1/2016 at 0:13 PM, UND-RedSox fan said:

Last year the B1G had 11 total games that weren't on a Friday or Saturday (excluding games over Christmas break) and every single one was on a Thursday or Sunday. Of those 11 games, 2 involved Minnesota and none involved Wisconsin. Seven of those games were non-conference games. We played more non Fri/Sat games than Wisconsin this year. So the talk about games on weird days of the week would have little to no impact on UND.

The reason we played more non Fri/Sat games than Wisconsin this year is because the only series we had at a B1G school this year was a Fri/Sun series against Mich St. when their football team was playing Penn State at home during the same weekend.  This is kind of a big detail to leave out in my opinion.

 

[Siouxperfan7]

On 5/1/2016 at 5:04 PM, Ronix said:

I say we play the hand and accept an offer if and only if we become a full athletic member. Only reasonable that the states flagship university is in a Power 5. 

And the two men's teams on the chopping block (baseball & golf) are saved as the B1G sanctions both sports. 

Hey, maybe we could finally sell out the Alerus with teams like Michigan and Ohio St. coming to town?!! 

[Ronix]

On May 1, 2016 at 6:29 PM, UNDBIZ said:

So what you're really saying is we should never go to the B1G.

Yes, there is nothing in it for UND unless they become a full athletic member and the B1G isn't looking for that. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 0:13 PM, UND-RedSox fan said:

Last year the B1G had 11 total games that weren't on a Friday or Saturday (excluding games over Christmas break) and every single one was on a Thursday or Sunday. Of those 11 games, 2 involved Minnesota and none involved Wisconsin. Seven of those games were non-conference games. We played more non Fri/Sat games than Wisconsin this year. So the talk about games on weird days of the week would have little to no impact on UND.

What do you think a Big 10 tournament in St. Paul with UND, Minnesota, and Wisconsin would look like? I think it would look similar to the old Final 5 days. The Big 10 would quickly realize that the most money would come from hosting the tournament in St. Paul and permanently keep it there. And the NCHC tournament would look just about as bad as the B1G tournament if UND would fail to make it there.

Ideally we would go back to how everything was prior to Penn State starting but that's never happening. I don't know if the B1G or NCHC is better for UND but week day games (not true) and poor conference tournaments (NCHC is bad too) are poor reasons to not want the B1G. 

I agree. 

Today, the biggest hockey rivalries are in the Boston area, because the Goof's and Wisco were forced into the B1G. This resulted in a conference separation from ND (which used to be the best 3 way rivalry).

ND has a huge alumni support base in the twin cities area and they show up for games there.  Wisconsin fans travel well to watch their hockey team in a tourney in the cities. The B1G needs their tournaments in the cities to fill the arena and ND must be part of it for that to happen. Minnesota fans, ND's traveling fans, and these ND fans in the cities are the nucleus of a full house attendance for tourneys in the cities. If ND is playing NCHC teams in the cities, the crowd isn't the same as it used to be in the WCHA tourney (old Final Five), because MN is not in it.  I'll say it again, you need both ND and MN in a tourney in the cities to get the big arena full. This won't work as well in Wisconsin or Michigan.

The home games in the Ralph will continue to have great fan support no matter what conference were in. Our road games could have an even better attendance in the B1G than the NCHC.  UND averaged 11,675 for home attendance last season (2015-16), by far college's best. 

The B1G teams averaged 6,476 (adding Notre Dame) in home attendance last season and the NCHC averaged 4,834, (from what all that is printed about the B1G attendance) this may surprise some, actually quite a difference there.  The B1G will slowly get better with or without UND, but it would help.

Also, I'm trying to figure out the network revenue differences between the 2 conferences. At this point assuming, well you know.

With UND's road game fan support, one would think this 6,476 number would increase with UND in the B1G. I would think rivalries would also grow stronger than the ones were building in the NCHC. This should also create better attendance at their home games when they play us, a successful program. There is so much more potential in the B1G, look at my chart a few posts back.  Minnesota and Wisconsin understand this. Regarding hockey, they have been pushed around by the B1G and may finally get a little support.  Also, the Notre Dam addition was a sign that they are not going to fix this from within the B1G and are looking outside the box. They need to check the ND box.

If it were up to me, I would rather have UND play conference games every year with

Minnesota       than      Duluth    

Wisconsin       than      Denver

Michigan         than     St Cloud

Michigan St     than     W Michigan

Ohio St            than     Miami of Ohio

Penn St           than     Colorado Col

Notre Dame    than      Omaha

See you at the Sioux/Bison Game at Kraft field in 12 hours.

[siouxkid12]

The nontraditional start times also have hurt in the Big Ten. It's not just the Thursday and Sunday games, it's the odd 2 p.m. or 5:30 p.m. start times that have happened on Saturdays. (covered that a long time ago but Gopher fans on here say its a non-issue)

UND was forced to play in a Big Ten Sunday game this season against Michigan State and there was no buzz from afar and no atmosphere in East Lansing, Mich., for that game. College hockey fans are used to their 7 p.m. or 7:30 p.m. starts on Friday and Saturday nights. Regularly playing on different nights and at odd times would not go over well with the North Dakota fan base.

Affiliate members in the Big Ten also shouldn't expect to see any television revenue generated by the Big Ten Network, so it doesn't promise to be a lucrative move. (Covered this too but fans seem to think other wise)

Three years into the new era of college hockey, UND is the national champion, regularly landing top recruits and averaging more than a sellout per game. Things are going well right now for the UND men's hockey team.

It will cost any NCHC team $1.5MM to leave the NCHC....That ain't happening anywhere!

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

38 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

The nontraditional start times also have hurt in the Big Ten. It's not just the Thursday and Sunday games, it's the odd 2 p.m. or 5:30 p.m. start times that have happened on Saturdays. (covered that a long time ago but Gopher fans on here say its a non-issue)

UND was forced to play in a Big Ten Sunday game this season against Michigan State and there was no buzz from afar and no atmosphere in East Lansing, Mich., for that game. College hockey fans are used to their 7 p.m. or 7:30 p.m. starts on Friday and Saturday nights. Regularly playing on different nights and at odd times would not go over well with the North Dakota fan base.

Affiliate members in the Big Ten also shouldn't expect to see any television revenue generated by the Big Ten Network, so it doesn't promise to be a lucrative move. (Covered this too but fans seem to think other wise)

Three years into the new era of college hockey, UND is the national champion, regularly landing top recruits and averaging more than a sellout per game. Things are going well right now for the UND men's hockey team.

It will cost any NCHC team $1.5MM to leave the NCHC....That ain't happening anywhere!

Yup, completely agree with everything you and Schlossman have already stated.

Why leave a great conference and pay $1.5MM to do so?

[UNDvince97-01]

46 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

Affiliate members in the Big Ten also shouldn't expect to see any television revenue generated by the Big Ten Network, so it doesn't promise to be a lucrative move. (Covered this too but fans seem to think other wise)

This is your opinion and in no way a fact of any kind.  And I respect that.

Myself and many others have respectfully tried to tell you that you dont know that for sure.  Provide a source for that and I will stand corrected.

Truth is, you could inevitably be right with your guess as to what will or will not happen.  There's also a possibility you are wrong and that it is offered to UND to get them into the B1G Hockey Conference.

Again, as myself and others have stated, if there's nothing to gain financially or otherwise, then by all means stay in the NCHC.

[Cratter]

Fox Sports (not Fox College) could pay (more) to broadcast UND games if they were playing in the Big Ten (Twin Cities media market would be interested in watching those games).

It's not just about the Big Ten network money.

[siouxkid12]

14 minutes ago, UNDvince97-01 said:

This is your opinion and in no way a fact of any kind.  And I respect that.

Myself and many others have respectfully tried to tell you that you dont know that for sure.  Provide a source for that and I will stand corrected.

Truth is, you could inevitably be right with your guess as to what will or will not happen.  There's also a possibility you are wrong and that it is offered to UND to get them into the B1G Hockey Conference.

Again, as myself and others have stated, if there's nothing to gain financially or otherwise, then by all means stay in the NCHC.

Honestly, I cant seem to find the article where I read that specific stipulation but I know it's out there. I would be willing to bet that Schlossman has seen/heard it too, since he brought it up; he isn't known to report from the cuff.

[siouxkid12]

7 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Fox Sports (not Fox College) could pay (more) to broadcast UND games if they were playing in the Big Ten (Twin Cities media market would be interested in watching those games).

It's not just about the Big Ten network money.

Of course its not about B10 money, its about UND making the most money off of their product. I honestly think UND will take all broadcasting "in-house" and sell the rights to FCS, but someone brought up the other day with all the budget cuts that UND might not be able to afford to do that.

[siouxkid12]

On 3/23/2016 at 10:44 PM, jdub27 said:

B1G cares about TV markets to force cable providers to carry their network. The ratings/attendance are an afterthought and UND, while having a bigger following than any other option, does not move the needle anywhere near enough to overcome the other things they have going against them.

 

ASU. Book it. No way the B1G didn't have someone lined up before Notre Dame was accepted, they aren't going to an odd number, and it wasn't an NCHC team, that I can guarantee with almost certainty. Wouldn't be surprised if they put in an "out"  clause of some sort that allow them to severe ties with ASU if a B1G school adds hockey in the future.

I'll be the first to admit if I'm wrong but this is the scenario I see happening based on reliable things I've heard.

Well, the B10 has said NO to ASU, so who is the other team that will round out the B10? Where does ASU go?

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, siouxkid12 said:

Well, the B10 has said NO to ASU, so who is the other team that will round out the B10? Where does ASU go?

I was wrong on the ASU to the B1G. From everything I had heard, I'm really surprised that they (the B1G) changed their mind and decided against adding them. As for going forward, maybe they will stay at an odd number of teams. The WCHA did it on and off for a handful of years, though I can't imagine its ideal.

I think the NCHC's biggest hang-up on ASU is that their arena situation is a dumpster fire. Then it becomes of a pros/cons decision on how much their brand brings to the table in terms of hockey, which is different than their overall brand. The one thing they have going for them is money, which is something a lot of schools can't say.

[siouxkid12]

32 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

I was wrong on the ASU to the B1G. From everything I had heard, I'm really surprised that they changed their mind and decided against adding them. As for going forward, maybe they will stay at an odd number of teams. The WCHA did it on and off for a handful of years, though I can't imagine its ideal.

I think the NCHC's biggest hang-up on ASU is that their arena situation is a dumpster fire. Then it becomes of a pros/cons decision on how much their brand brings to the table in terms of hockey, which is different than their overall brand. The one thing they have going for them is money, which is something a lot of schools can't say.

After everything I heard, I was with you in thinking ASU was going to the B10. Where does this leave them? Like you said, they have the money and I would think they have the power to attract other Pac12 schools in the future.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

4 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

After everything I heard, I was with you in thinking ASU was going to the B10. Where does this leave them? Like you said, they have the money and I would think they have the power to attract other Pac12 schools in the future.

Maybe it's more on the line that the B1G doesn't want ASU?