Moo U Dumpster Fire Thread

[Hawkster]

1 hour ago, Gothmog said:

Well. SDSU has beaten the Bison multiple times in the regular season, what good has it done them?

Playoff wins and Championships are all that matters. Beating a rival in the regular season is just one win in a long season. No more no less. 

At least someone here gets it.   I'll say it again, one game does not a season make, but one good season gets you into the playoffs.

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, Gothmog said:

Well. SDSU has beaten the Bison multiple times in the regular season, what good has it done them?

Playoff wins and Championships are all that matters. Beating a rival in the regular season is just one win in a long season. No more no less. 

Well it seems to have served them well, as they have like the 2nd longest playoff streak in the country, have been seeded multiple times, and just made it to the semi finals.  They havent knocked off NDSU in the playoffs yet, but their experiences in beating them has undoubtedly given them confidence, and they have consistently given NDSU some of their most competetive games in the playoffs.  Its hard to say that beating the Bison doesn't matter when there is a 99% chance that we will be placed on the same side of the bracket as them.  Besides, beating NDSU puts UND in the drivers seat for a top two seed in the playoffs, which would mean an eventual matchup in the Alerus vs the Fargo Dome or any other stadium.  Any argument that beating the Bison doesn't at least partly translate to playoff success, or at least better odds of playoffs success is ludicrous, especially with the game coming so early in the season.  A win against NDSU so early in the year would also be huge for recruiting, considering we lose nearly all head to head battles.  THAT has to change, and a win vs the Bison is worth more than any other game on the schedule when it comes to recruiting our back yard, and future playoff success.

[Gothmog]

2 hours ago, nodak651 said:

Well it seems to have served them well, as they have like the 2nd longest playoff streak in the country, have been seeded multiple times, and just made it to the semi finals.  They havent knocked off NDSU in the playoffs yet, but their experiences in beating them has undoubtedly given them confidence, and they have consistently given NDSU some of their most competetive games in the playoffs.  Its hard to say that beating the Bison doesn't matter when there is a 99% chance that we will be placed on the same side of the bracket as them.  Besides, beating NDSU puts UND in the drivers seat for a top two seed in the playoffs, which would mean an eventual matchup in the Alerus vs the Fargo Dome or any other stadium.  Any argument that beating the Bison doesn't at least partly translate to playoff success, or at least better odds of playoffs success is ludicrous, especially with the game coming so early in the season.  A win against NDSU so early in the year would also be huge for recruiting, considering we lose nearly all head to head battles.  THAT has to change, and a win vs the Bison is worth more than any other game on the schedule when it comes to recruiting our back yard, and future playoff success.

That's just silly. SDSU has occasionally beaten NDSU over the last few years because they've been committed to doing what is necessary to build and maintain a solid program, not vice versa. The quality program comes first, then the wins.  

Beating NDSU, or any other team, is not magic. You gotta do the hard work first. Otherwise, you're just hoping that pure luck will jumpstart your program. That's not likely to ever happen. 

[Mama Sue]

8 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Kids bought me Alexa for Christmas. They claim she is smart and helpful.

I plugged her into 110 AC, downloaded the app on my phone, connected her to wifi, and gave her my first try. '"Alexa, what's the weather forecast?"

Alexa, 'In GF there is a winter storm warning in effect till December 28 9:00 am .............. Local schools including UND closed for tomorrow.'

 

Next question: "Alexa, next September 7th, can our UND Sioux beat the NDSU Bison in college football?"

Alexa, 'It's now the Fighting Hawks verses Bison in a thrill filled sellout in the MP.  Without a ticket, one can watch on NBC ND, or catch the results/game high points in the GF Hearld the following Tuesday.'

 

I absolutely LOVE the newspaper the “ following Tuesday.” Man..... even computers recognize a little delay!

[UND-FB-FAN]

11 hours ago, Gothmog said:

Well. SDSU has beaten the Bison multiple times in the regular season, what good has it done them?

Playoff wins and Championships are all that matters. Beating a rival in the regular season is just one win in a long season. No more no less. 

I disagree. I think you completely missed the point. Also, to your strange point, does that mean NDSU is the only relevant FCS program since they’ve won 6 of the past 7 titles? No. Only in your heavily biased reality is NDSU the only relevant program. 

What is the current state of the South Dakota State football program? SDSU has been able to beat NDSU in Fargo during NDSU’s title streak. Most UND fans would kill to be where SDSU is as a football program. I do think UND can get there with improved facilities and coaching. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

9 hours ago, Hawkster said:

At least someone here gets it.   I'll say it again, one game does not a season make, but one good season gets you into the playoffs.

“You play to win the game.”

- Herm Edwards

Win the damn game, UND, and reap the benefits.

No one here is claiming that UND’s season is over if they lose to NDSU, but big things are on the horizon if they win. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

7 hours ago, Gothmog said:

That's just silly. SDSU has occasionally beaten NDSU over the last few years because they've been committed to doing what is necessary to build and maintain a solid program, not vice versa. The quality program comes first, then the wins.  

Beating NDSU, or any other team, is not magic. You gotta do the hard work first. Otherwise, you're just hoping that pure luck will jumpstart your program. That's not likely to ever happen. 

I disagree. Head-to-head victories matter and obviously SDSU has some against NDSU.

Yes, SDSU is building the program the right way to be able to do that, but they’ve also gained a lot from being able to compete with and occasionally best NDSU.  

Ultimately your argumentative point is moot. No one thinks you can just show up in Fargo and beat NDSU, but if you do win, you have a major chance at having a very good season.

That is what UND fans care about in the context of 2019. Win that second game of the season in Fargo, and UND will be set for a huge 2019 along with a potential program changing recruiting class. 

[bang]

21 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

“You play to win the game.”

- Herm Edwards

Win the damn game, UND, and reap the benefits.

No one here is claiming that UND’s season is over if they lose to NDSU, but big things are on the horizon if they win. 

Here’s somebody that gets it. 

[tnt]

Let's not forget how fortunes changed after Mike Mooney's fumble recovery that ended the Bison 14 game win streak against us.  Once you get over the unbeatable mindset, things can change, and maybe even put a chink in their armor.   It certainly wouldn't hurt for in state recruiting and recruiting all around for that matter. 

[Dustin]

10 hours ago, shep said:

In STATE rivalry. 

BIG difference in my opinion.

Agree.  Would SDSU rather beat NDSU, but lose to USD?   I doubt it.  Or think of the reverse scenario - would USD rather beat NDSU, but lose to SDSU.  Also, no.  UND has an advantage over SDSU and USD by having NDSU as the in-state rival.  Once you've toppled your state, you've also toppled the whole FCS.  For a long time I've held the belief (and still do) that UND will be the school to take down NDSU.  I just don't see it any other way.  No school is going to be as motivated to do it as much as UND.  No school would it mean as much to as UND.  Not saying the process is going to be easy, but it's easy to focus on.  

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

4 minutes ago, Dustin said:

Agree.  Would SDSU rather beat NDSU, but lose to USD?   I doubt it.  Or think of the reverse scenario - would USD rather beat NDSU, but lose to SDSU.  Also, no.  UND has an advantage over SDSU and USD by having NDSU as the in-state rival.  Once you've toppled your state, you've also toppled the whole FCS.  For a long time I've held the belief (and still do) that UND will be the school to take down NDSU.  I just don't see it any other way.  No school is going to be as motivated to do it as much as UND.  No school would it mean as much to as UND.  Not saying the process is going to be easy, but it's easy to focus on.  

^^^            History has proven this, will happen again.

[Midwestern Hawk]

53 minutes ago, tnt said:

Let's not forget how fortunes changed after Mike Mooney's fumble recovery that ended the Bison 14 game win streak against us.  Once you get over the unbeatable mindset, things can change, and maybe even put a chink in their armor.   It certainly wouldn't hurt for in state recruiting and recruiting all around for that matter. 

It's coming like a freight train.  If we would win in Fargo next September it will be a huge paradigm shift for both programs.

[nodak651]

9 hours ago, Gothmog said:

That's just silly. SDSU has occasionally beaten NDSU over the last few years because they've been committed to doing what is necessary to build and maintain a solid program, not vice versa. The quality program comes first, then the wins.  

Beating NDSU, or any other team, is not magic. You gotta do the hard work first. Otherwise, you're just hoping that pure luck will jumpstart your program. That's not likely to ever happen. 

I don't see anyone making that straw man argument.

Improving the program and/or beating NDSU isn't a bianary option.

Yes, building the program puts us in a better position to beat NDSU, but beating NDSU also puts us in a better position to build the program.

 

[Midwestern Hawk]

53 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

I don't see anyone making that straw man argument.

Improving the program and/or beating NDSU isn't a bianary option.

Yes, building the program puts us in a better position to beat NDSU, but beating NDSU also puts us in a better position to build the program.

 

With an average OC/QB coach last season, we win 8-9 games and are a seed in the playoffs.  With a good OC we win 10 games and are playing the Bison in a week and half.  The program is there.  We will beat NDSU next season.

[bang]

16 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

With an average OC/QB coach last season, we win 8-9 games and are a seed in the playoffs.  With a good OC we win 10 games and are playing the Bison in a week and half.  The program is there.  We will beat NDSU next season.

I do like your optimistic attitude. I hope you’re right. 

[Siouxperfan7]

1 hour ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

With an average OC/QB coach last season, we win 8-9 games and are a seed in the playoffs.  With a good OC we win 10 games and are playing the Bison in a week and half.  The program is there.  We will beat NDSU next season.

 

[Gothmog]

3 hours ago, nodak651 said:

I don't see anyone making that straw man argument.

Improving the program and/or beating NDSU isn't a bianary option.

Yes, building the program puts us in a better position to beat NDSU, but beating NDSU also puts us in a better position to build the program.

 

No it's not a straw man argument. The original argument was that beating NDSU would help UND to build its program to the point that it it can become a championship caliber team. NDSU is obviously already a championship caliber team and the OP stipulates, or at least implies, that UND is not. If that is true, what other than luck would at this point allow UND to beat NDSU?

The whole idea is, unfortunately, bass ackwards.

[WiSioux]

On 12/24/2018 at 4:31 PM, UND-FB-FAN said:

Really? Really!

Of course UND fans would care *if* UND beats NDSU.

If it happens next year, it would perhaps be the biggest win in the history of UND football.

Also, to your point, if UND beats NDSU in Fargo I’m quite sure UND would then be capable of winning a playoff game .....

As a non North Dakota UND alum I never understood the infatuation with NDSU. Maybe because when I was in college we didn't play NDSU in anything.  Never did, and still don't care what the school an hour south does.

[Dustin]

31 minutes ago, WiSioux said:

As a non North Dakota UND alum I never understood the infatuation with NDSU. Maybe because when I was in college we didn't play NDSU in anything.  Never did, and still don't care what the school an hour south does.

Will you say the same thing when UND starts playing NDSU multiple times per year in multiple sports (one of which will be football) with conference standings and potential conference championships on the line?  That's the way it was until 2004.  That's why we care.  NDSU historically has been the biggest thorn in UND's side (and the reverse is true as well) to accomplishing those standings or championships.  That's why we care.  The fact that it's the in-state school means you know people who went to, go to, or root for the other one, so it's a point of pride among friends and family.  That's why we care.

[Texas rancher]

3 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

With an average OC/QB coach last season, we win 8-9 games and are a seed in the playoffs.  With a good OC we win 10 games and are playing the Bison in a week and half.  The program is there.  We will beat NDSU next season.

Someone has been hitting the eggnog a little to hard this holiday season!

[nodak651]

1 hour ago, Gothmog said:

No it's not a straw man argument. The original argument was that beating NDSU would help UND to build its program to the point that it it can become a championship caliber team. NDSU is obviously already a championship caliber team and the OP stipulates, or at least implies, that UND is not. If that is true, what other than luck would at this point allow UND to beat NDSU?

The whole idea is, unfortunately, bass ackwards.

Looking back, the below posts seem to be the ones that started this discussion.  Not sure where anyone implies that beating NDSU is what will cause UND to become a championship caliber team.  Would it help?  Of course it would.  How would beating the best team in the country not help in that regard?  A win vs NDSU would improve our resume more than a win VS any other team, it would create huge hype and greatly improve attendance (which would improve our home field advantage), it would give us the chance to stay at home in the playoffs (even vs NDSU), and it greatly help with recruiting (NDSU signs more UND offerees than any other FCS school).  SDSU was booted from the playoffs in for of their last 7 playoff appearances, by the way.  So how exactly does beating NDSU not help UND build it's program?  UND hasn't done anything to show that they are a currently a championship team, but they may have the potential to be, and a win vs NDSU (the perennial champs) would actually provide evidence that UND is moving in that direction.  You have to beat the best to be the best, and really, what better benchmark is there? 

We compete directly with NDSU in everything - athletics, academics, fan support, and enrollment - and with a fixed amount of potential recruits, WINS, CHAMPIONSHIPS, students, sponsorship money, a win vs NDSU means our biggest competitor looks worse and we look better, and we have a better chance at succeeding.  Sorry for the ramble, and I forget the economics term I was trying to think of (basically the opposite of a rising tide lifts all boats, but applied to athletics).

On 12/24/2018 at 8:34 AM, gfhockey said:

Win over ndsu

 

On 12/24/2018 at 4:21 PM, Hawkster said:

Who the heck cares if we beat them or not.   Look at the big picture, I'd much rather settle for a playoff appearance followed with a playoff win.   One game doesn't determine our season, but one season determines our playoffs.

 

On 12/24/2018 at 5:31 PM, UND-FB-FAN said:

Really? Really!

Of course UND fans would care *if* UND beats NDSU.

If it happens next year, it would perhaps be the biggest win in the history of UND football.

Also, to your point, if UND beats NDSU in Fargo I’m quite sure UND would then be capable of winning a playoff game .....

 

[Gothmog]

On 12/25/2018 at 10:12 AM, UND-FB-FAN said:

NDSU is currently the best program in the history of FCS football. It’s not necessarily wise to be ignorant of that fact.

UND beating NDSU in Fargo would set UND up for huge things in 2019. Merely getting into the playoffs and winning a playoff game actually pales in comparison to the possibilities that beating NDSU would produce. UND beating NDSU would mean national title potential for UND. 

Merry Christmas! 

Here is the post I was responding to. I certainly interpret it as beating NDSU in 2019 will be the catalyst for UND's emergence as a championship caliber team. 

IMO, it wouldn't be any more than it was for SDSU, UNI, Indiana State, or USD. That's my point.

[Midwestern Hawk]

33 minutes ago, Texas rancher said:

Someone has been hitting the eggnog a little to hard this holiday season!

Losses:

Idaho State - lost by 4, shutout in 2nd half

Need to go 2-2 in last 4 games to make the playoffs.

Weber State - lost by 5, scored field goal on first drive of second half other wise offense shutout in 2nd half.

Idaho - lost by 4, after taking 27-17 lead early in 4th quarter ran 14 play on 4 drives for 6 net yards.

Portland State - won by 7, down 10-7 at half, defense scores a TD and offense manages a FG with :54 to go. Other than FG drive(14 plays-70 yards)UND managed 11 plays on 3 drives for -11 yards.

Northern Arizona - lost by 15(one score game 'til 1:01 left) UND second half drives with UND season on the line:

3 plays for 5 yards(punt)

10 plays for 30 yards(FG)

2  plays for 0 yards(pick 6)

9 plays for 49 yards(FG)

3 plays for 3 yards(punt)

3 plays for -8 yards(punt)

3 plays for 7 yards(punt)

3 plays for -3 yards(EOG)

UND offense was outscored 7-6 in 2nd half without NAU offense ever touching the field.

I think the case could be made that with an AVERAGE OC, UND wins 8-10 games.

 

[Gothmog]

24 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Here is the post I was responding to. I certainly interpret it as beating NDSU in 2019 will be the catalyst for UND's emergence as a championship caliber team. 

IMO, it wouldn't be any more than it was for SDSU, UNI, Indiana State, or USD. That's my point.

NDSU has lost about 1 regular season game per year during its championship run. So far only YSU has had an appearance in Frisco after beating NDSU in the regular season and that was years later. 

It just doesn't follow that beating NDSU would somehow be magic for UND's playoff prospects.

[nd1sufan]

4 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

It's coming like a freight train.  If we would win in Fargo next September it will be a huge paradigm shift for both programs.

A win in Fargo next year for UND could happen, very doubtful but could happen, however, it would NOT put UND in any drivers seat for a top 2 playoff seed. NDSU has only had one and possibly two undefeated years in their run. Meaning somebody beat them most years. It didn’t mean a huge playoff run or program changing year for USD, Indiana State, UNI or Montana. UND will not be a playoff seed next year win or lose Sept. 7th.

I like how people think that because UND caught NDSU in the 90’s that it will happen soon again. The 90’s to now is like apples to oranges. Neither team had a national profile back then. They weren’t on national TV at all. They weren’t playing or beating Power 5 teams. They were playing D2 football that nobody outside this region cared about. Most kids on the Twin Coties didnt even care. Who won the last 2 D2 championships? Nobody knows because nobody cares.

Like it or not, quite a few HS kids know about NDSU football all over the country. Not many know about UND fb. NDSU keeps getting some of the top athletes that play FCS fb every year. They just signed their best recruiting class ever this year in a year with coaching staff changes. 5 of their top 10 ranked kids they have ever signed are coming in next year, including the large school offensive and defensive players of the year from Wisconsin. The hill keeps getting steeper and steeper that UND needs to climb. 

NSDU will not go undefeated next year and could possibly lose to UND, but it will not change the balance of power in fb in the state.