Siouxphan27 Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Wrigley has basically just opened a can of worms. This paves the way for funding to be used anyway a school chooses, regardless of initial designation. Quote
Cratter Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 They should have a bill that allows for development of even athletic buildings. Let the university/donors decide what they wanna do with the money. Quote
jdub27 Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Wrigley has basically just opened a can of worms. This paves the way for funding to be used anyway a school chooses, regardless of initial designation. Not quite, there were a handful of things denied the first time around. But if you can sell it as a scholarship, it should be approved with the current interpretation. That being said, if it is something that gets renewed, I wouldn't be surprised to see a more specific set of restrictions put in place. Quote
CMSioux Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 If all they do is clarify the intent for the future then the cheaters get by and those that followed the rules get screwed. Just another example of "integrity" in action - those that follow the rules and the intent of the rules have it - the others don't. 2 Quote
homer Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 "We're bringing in that top-rated freshman recruit at center* because we're sure they'll be able to improve the quality of scholarly research in the physics department." *BB, hockey, or FB Said by no coach ever. Quote
Shawn-O Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/education/3679385-six-ndsu-athletic-scholarships-funded-program-set-academic-scholarships Lt. Gov. Wrigley defends use of academic grants as athletic scholarships. If the bill is renewed, UND football better be the first in line to up their scholarship dollars. Translation: "This isn't worth pissing off potential voters to go down this political rathole". 1 Quote
LkvlleUNDFan Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 As much as I think that using the grant money for athletic scholarships is shady and certainly against the spirit of the matching funds program, this falls under the category of, "You don't get what you don't ask for." UND chose to abide by the spirit of the law, while others didn't. They took advantage of vague language on the chance that their requests would go through, and they did. Now, it'd be a mess - and a political fight - to fix it. The grants have been approved - so getting that money back would be difficult. And you can't really go to UND and others that didn't get athletic scholarship money out of the program and hand them a check. All you can do is fix it going forward - and maybe approve a few extra bucks for those that took the high road the first time. Quote
jdub27 Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 UND chose to abide by the spirit of the law, while others didn't. They took advantage of vague language on the chance that their requests would go through, and they did. I get what you're saying but I would think the language in the bill is pretty clear in what the purpose was. Unless someone can explain how athletic scholarships exclusively advance academics or can point to a student-athlete who was recruited for the academic abilities alone, then I think its pretty simple. The only place scholarships are mentioned, it is specifically mentioned as related to enhancing academics. Playing football doesn't do that. Advancement of academics - Matching grants - University of North Dakota and North Dakota state university. During the period beginning July 1, 2013, and ending December 31, 2014, the state board of higher education shall award one dollar in matching grants for every two dollars raised by the institutional foundations of the university of North Dakota and North Dakota state university for projects dedicated exclusively to the advancement of academics. SECTION 6. A new section to chapter 15-10 of the North Dakota Century Code is created and enacted as follows: Definition. For purposes of this Act, projects dedicated to the advancement of enhanced academics include investments in research, scholarship, technology, endowed chairs, and investments in educational infrastructure, not to include new capital construction projects. Quote
FargoBison Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 If it was clear, then why weren't they denied? It wasn't for a great sum of money and other things were denied by the committee, so I don't think denying these things would create a big issue. In fact NDSU's requests exceeded what the state could match when it was all said and done. The fact that nobody objected to this seems to make me think a lot of people here are trying to create a controversy that does not exist and never existed outside of Rob Port's sayanythingstupid blog. Quote
jdub27 Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 In fact NDSU's requests exceeded what the state could match when it was all said and done. 1)The amount they were over is less than what the athletic scholarships were. Unless they had some donations that weren't submitted (possible), they would have been short. 2)So you are saying NDSU intentionally chose to fund athletic scholarships over academic scholarships? Quote
LkvlleUNDFan Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I get what you're saying but I would think the language in the bill is pretty clear in what the purpose was. Unless someone can explain how athletic scholarships exclusively advance academics or can point to a student-athlete who was recruited for the academic abilities alone, then I think its pretty simple. The only place scholarships are mentioned, it is specifically mentioned as related to enhancing academics. Playing football doesn't do that. Oh, I'm with you. The intent was clear. But apparently there was enough of an opening to make some schools think they had a shot at getting athletic funds out of the deal. It wasn't just one. And because it wasn't explicitly prohibited, it somehow worked. This is just the sort of stuff that should drive taxpayers absolutely crazy. Quote
SiouxFan100 Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Doesn't seem right about athletic scholarships meant for academic scholarships. That said, I just am tired of all the complaining. We complain here. We complain about coaches. We complain about officials. Complain Complain Complain. I know - I don't have to read it. I know - this is a forum to do that. Just wish we had more positive things to talk about. Quote
FargoBison Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 1)The amount they were over is less than what the athletic scholarships were. Unless they had some donations that weren't submitted (possible), they would have been short. 2)So you are saying NDSU intentionally chose to fund athletic scholarships over academic scholarships? All I am saying if the committee had an issue with athletic scholarships, they could have put money toward that instead. They could have just flat out denied all of them, like they denied other requests. I don't think NDSU intentionally did anything, other then try to get their full share of the money available. Quote
Matt Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Unless someone is taking this to the AG it seems like this has been questioned and ruled upon already by the Lt Gov. I would not be a bit surprised if UND refuses to change course and uses these grants for academics only in the future (if this program is continuing to be funded, I haven't read the bill and don't intend to do so). Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Doesn't seem right about athletic scholarships meant for academic scholarships. That said, I just am tired of all the complaining. We complain here. We complain about coaches. We complain about officials. Complain Complain Complain. I know - I don't have to read it. I know - this is a forum to do that. Just wish we had more positive things to talk about. There ARE positive things to talk about (MH having a great season so far, FB being rebuilt by Bubba and Co.). But ignoring the negative things won't make them go away or help to fix them. Only by shining a light on them will positive changes be made. Quote
FSSD Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Wow is there a lot of lying going on in this thread. Did any of you actually read the entire Challenge bill or did you just stop at the first page? Did any of you actually read the entire list of Challenge grants from each school? To me, it looks like the UND Foundation got greedy. They finished their own slice of pie and started eying the slice of the person sitting next to them. When the person sitting next to them finished eating their slice of pie just before the café closed, they got upset because they had planned to eat it off the plate just after the other person left. Because UND's fundraising campaign was in full swing when the Challenge Grants were created, UND used up a big chunk of their money right away. There were a bunch of applications in Dec 2013 and more throughout the first half of 2014. By the end of 2014, UND had requested about $8.8M of their $10M. During the last two months(Nov & Dec 2014), UND put in requests for the final $1.2M. In NDSU's case, they didn't have a major fundraising campaign going on, so the donations came in slower. NDSU didn't have any 2013 requests, and only a moderate amount of requests during the first half of 2014(about $2M worth). But the second half of 2014 came with a flood of requests. About another $2M in the late summer and fall. And Dec 2014 brought in about $4.5M. The last $450k was requested just after the first of the year. Personally, I think some of the reason for the lateness was due to the leadership problems in the NDSU Development Foundation. I know the $3M + $1.5M donation by Doosan/Bobcat was in the works long before the end of 2014, but the actual donation was held until the last minute and the announcement was delayed even more until Mayo's resignation was announced. Still, of the six athletic scholarship requests, none were part of the January request. So to say NDSU needed the athletic scholarships to fill out the last of the grant money is incorrect at best, lying at worst. But I think the UND Development Foundation was watching the NDSU requests and thought NDSU was going to leave about $5M on the table. According to the Challenge bill, UND could have put in requests for that money. By NDSU coming in at the 11th hour with requests covering the entire amount, I bet some hopes were dashed quite rudely. It gives the comments coming from DCZ a real sour grapes feel. In any case, grant money going to athletic scholarships at NDSU amounted to $0.15M. That means $9.85M went to non-athletic areas. (going by the names of the scholarship funds) That is a interesting take.. it sounds like more of a problem at FU versus anything going on at UND. I do think that FU appears to be a bit tone deaf politically.. is the couple of hundred thousand added by the fund really worth it in the big picture? And just because the chairman doesn't have a problem with athletic scholarships doesn't mean others in the legislature will approve of it. I think that it would have been a much better move for all schools to stay away from athletic scholarships given the recent Higher Education battles that have taken place in the legislature and recent softening of the oil market. Quote
Hammersmith Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 You know, it's a good thing NDSU didn't try to use this program to buy art for the new STEM building. Can you imagine the outrage? Quote
homer Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 You know, it's a good thing NDSU didn't try to use this program to buy art for the new STEM building. Can you imagine the outrage? When can we expect the first scholarship offer to the athlete based on ACT score? 4 Quote
niouxsiouxfan Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 "projects dedicated to the advancement of enhanced academics, including...." How do you interpret this as having anything to do with athletics? I don't. I unfortunately work in an environment where people find money thru different avenues to fund something that it was not intended to. It happens because of an oversight on initial setup. Had the bill writers been specific and denied athletics specifically, then this wouldn't have happened 1 Quote
geaux_sioux Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Don't athletes have a higher average GPA than the non athlete students? Quote
niouxsiouxfan Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 And maybe it will provide a convenient excuse for the Legislature to not fund the program this session. Because of the low oil prices they are looking for programs to cut. Have you ever heard of anyone using enhanced academics in the same sentence as athletic department? See above post... But the NCAA classifies the players as student-athletes. They fight for that belief constantly. So, we are stuck giving athletes scholarship money not intended for them. I agree it is not the spirit of the law, but it's where we are in this fd up world today Quote
homer Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Don't athletes have a higher average GPA than the non athlete students? No they are all free to fail or pass as many courses as they would like. Quote
geaux_sioux Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 No they are all free to fail or pass as many courses as they would like. I'm pretty sure the average gpa of athletes at UND is higher than the general student population. Quote
homer Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I'm pretty sure the average gpa of athletes at UND is higher than the general student population. So it has to be? Quote
CMSioux Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I'm pretty sure the average gpa of athletes at UND is higher than the general student population. Well first of all it's a smaller sample size, second of all the general student population doesn't have assigned tutors and designated study time - all specifically designed to make sure they make the grade. Not complaining because we've had great athletes in the past that even these perks didn't help. Yes those that are "making progress toward a degree" are student-athletes, those that are just attending school to play aren't - they often end up as signature gatherers. . Quote
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