US vs Canada - Women's Hockey

[gfhockey]

Philly wants him fired lol. 

[Siouxperfan7]

2 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

This whole thing is an unintended consequence of allowing professional athletes into the Olympics. It has trickled down to the IIHF level as well. Get professionals out of the Olympics and things will even out.

Aren't the members of the womens National team considered professionals?  Especially now that they are getting a substantial salary?  Are you proposing these women should not be on the national team now?!

[fightingsioux4life]

Just now, gfhockey said:

Philly wants him fired lol. 

The fans are being impatient. Hakstol doesn't have enough talent to win at a high level. That is something management needs to work on.

[WiSioux]

13 hours ago, Ranger said:

does this tournament get butts in seats?

I know a handful of people going and if I still lived in Michigan I would be there.

[Yote 53]

Just now, Siouxperfan7 said:

Aren't the members of the womens National team considered professionals?  Especially now that they are getting a substantial salary?  Are you proposing these women should not be on the national team now?!

In the 60's, 70's, and 80's we complained how the USSR racked up Gold medals in hockey by sending, basically, a professional team over, the Red Army team.  After yesterday, the USWNT just became the equivalent of the Red Army, paid professional women who will be taking the ice against other country's amateur women's teams. 

[fightingsioux4life]

Just now, Siouxperfan7 said:

Aren't the members of the womens National team considered professionals?  Especially now that they are getting a substantial salary?  Are you proposing these women should not be on the national team now?!

I don't think the salaries in this agreement can be compared to the millions of dollars that professional men's basketball and hockey players get. Get the NHL and NBA players out of international competition and offer amateur men's athletes a similar deal to what the women's hockey players got. That would level the playing field and allow our amateur athletes who have full-time jobs to be able to afford to compete in international tournaments.

Bottom line: I want the best athletes the United States has to compete on the international stage in every sport. Winning is good for national pride and for the development of sports at the youth level (the 1980 Miracle on Ice did that for hockey in a big way).

[fightingsioux4life]

1 minute ago, Yote 53 said:

In the 60's, 70's, and 80's we complained how the USSR racked up Gold medals in hockey by sending, basically, a professional team over, the Red Army team.  After yesterday, the USWNT just became the equivalent of the Red Army, paid professional women who will be taking the ice against other country's amateur women's teams. 

Apples and oranges. The USWNT has a fraction of the resources the Red Army teams did. The USSR spared literally no expense to prove that Communism was the superior system (which it wasn't).

[mksioux]

17 minutes ago, AJS said:

I've ripped Hakstol in a couple of my posts on this subject since I saw his tweet. It all comes back to my feeling that it's really easy to spend other peoples money. Hakstol (like Schlossman) want to play hero. Not look at things objectively and kind of pick it apart (i.e. wanting Travel / Companion to equal men's makes sense, the $70,000 salary doesn't). Hak isn't brave for his stance, he just wanted to feed his own ego by having tell everyone what a great guy he is for standing up. I mean who cares who has to pay for it, it's not coming out of my paycheck.

100% agree.  The last person's opinion that matters to me on stuff like this is someone making a 7-figure income.  Hakstol can play hero, tow the politically correct stand, endear himself to media and lose nothing.  Same goes for the NHL players.  Why do they care if USA Hockey starts paying women?  They're making millions.  It's the little guy with young kids in hockey that pays for it.  I care about the family that chooses not put their kids in hockey because it's too damn expensive.  Yes, I realize that this ONE issue is not going to make or break someone deciding whether to play hockey, but it's the mentality of spending other people's money and making the sport more expensive based on deception and obfuscation by wrongfully claiming that the women weren't being treated fairly.  

[mksioux]

17 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

This whole thing is an unintended consequence of allowing professional athletes into the Olympics. It has trickled down to the IIHF level as well. Get professionals out of the Olympics and things will even out.

It's not about whether professional athletes should be allowed to compete in the Olympics.  It's about whether the governing body should be the employer.  I have no problem with an athlete who is paid by a private company being allowed to compete.  But I do have a problem with the governing body being the employer.  

[Siouxperfan7]

8 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I don't think the salaries in this agreement can be compared to the millions of dollars that professional men's basketball and hockey players get. Get the NHL and NBA players out of international competition and offer amateur men's athletes a similar deal to what the women's hockey players got. That would level the playing field and allow our amateur athletes who have full-time jobs to be able to afford to compete in international tournaments.

Bottom line: I want the best athletes the United States has to compete on the international stage in every sport. Winning is good for national pride and for the development of sports at the youth level (the 1980 Miracle on Ice did that for hockey in a big way).

So what is preventing other national teams from demanding the same type of compensation?  The Olympic curling teams train all year round and all of them have full time jobs.  Their compensation is next to nothing.  Do they deserve $70,000 a year?  

 

[mksioux]

12 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I don't think the salaries in this agreement can be compared to the millions of dollars that professional men's basketball and hockey players get. Get the NHL and NBA players out of international competition and offer amateur men's athletes a similar deal to what the women's hockey players got. That would level the playing field and allow our amateur athletes who have full-time jobs to be able to afford to compete in international tournaments.

Bottom line: I want the best athletes the United States has to compete on the international stage in every sport. Winning is good for national pride and for the development of sports at the youth level (the 1980 Miracle on Ice did that for hockey in a big way).

Don't your two paragraphs directly contradict each other?  Maybe I missed your point.  

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

32 minutes ago, AJS said:

I've ripped Hakstol in a couple of my posts on this subject since I saw his tweet. It all comes back to my feeling that it's really easy to spend other peoples money. Hakstol (like Schlossman) want to play hero. Not look at things objectively and kind of pick it apart (i.e. wanting Travel / Companion to equal men's makes sense, the $70,000 salary doesn't). Hak isn't brave for his stance, he just wanted to feed his own ego by having tell everyone what a great guy he is for standing up. I mean who cares who has to pay for it, it's not coming out of my paycheck.

The easy thing for Hak to do would have been to keep quiet about it which is why no one of consequence has spoken outside of a generic NHLPA and a vague statement that the men's team may boycott as well. People with the Flyers have connections in USA hockey as I'm sure Hakstol does and he won't hold onto that 7 figure job or gain any job security by 'feeding his ego' as you claim. In fact, this probably does more to hurt Hakstol as far as future job prospects in the league by upsetting other GMs with close connections to USA hockey. I don't see how him supporting the initiative(whether or not you agree with it) with a tweet is so terrible. No one's saying pin a Purple Heart on the guy, are they?

[Yote 53]

16 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Apples and oranges. The USWNT has a fraction of the resources the Red Army teams did. The USSR spared literally no expense to prove that Communism was the superior system (which it wasn't).

Not really.  The comparison is not what the USWNT receives versus the Red Army teams.  The comparison is what the USWNT receives compared to the women's national teams in other countries they compete against.  Those other teams receive practically nothing.

The Olympics were already considering dropping Women's Hockey because there is a lack of competition in the two team field.  That gap just got bigger. 

[UND GUY]

Pandor's Box opened here. A large consequence of this that conveniently none of the proponents has brought up.

When do the rowers get paid? They work really hard. Title IX, women's rights, it's unfair.

When do the curlers get paid? They work really hard (not to mention draw a lot better)? Title IX, women's rights, it's unfair.

When do the rifle competition people get paid? They work really hard. Title IX, women's rights, it's unfair.

Etc, etc, etc.

Money doesn't grow on trees. Huge problem with society today. Simple concept - supply and demand. Supply and demand isn't a Title IX issue. Instead it's a fact of life. When supply and demand is ignored things go in the wrong direction real quick.

[mksioux]

1 hour ago, Yote 53 said:

100% agree. 

I pay about $100 a year in registration fees for my son's player membership and my coaching membership.  Add in the cost of Level 1-4 coaching certifications, with Level 4 costing me about $300 in registration not to mention 2 nights hotel and travel expenses (probably close to another $500), and paying for coaching modules at each age level, enough is enough.  I guess I just look at it as the cost of playing/coaching and am willing to bear it.  You know who isn't?  Mites.  New families.  They see a $50 registration fee to USA Hockey and they gripe.  Heck, we only charge new Mite skaters $50 for the season (which our foundation picks up the tab so it is essentially $0) and $100 for returning Mite players...but USA Hockey requires $50?  What the heck?  Something is not right with that picture.

 

In case you're scratching your head at the low cost of Mite hockey, fundraising picks up the difference.  All included we need to generate about $500/year to put a Mite player on the ice for a season.

Trust me, I know.  I spent more money and had to spend almost as much time to become a certified mite hockey coach as I did to get licensed to practice law.  It's ridiculously out of control.  USA Hockey seems to go out of their way to try and make hockey as expensive as possible.  Yes, some associations are able to subsidize mite players, or at least first year mites, but others aren't wealthy enough to have much of a subsidy.  Either way, it eventually catches up and it gets really expensive. I don't have a problem with mite subsidies.  If we're going to subsidize any group of hockey players, it should be mites.   That's why on all of these issues about lack of support of the elite athletes in hockey (boys and girls, men and women), I just roll my eyes.  

[AJS]

9 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

The easy thing for Hak to do would have been to keep quiet about it which is why no one of consequence has spoken outside of a generic NHLPA and a vague statement that the men's team may boycott as well. People with the Flyers have connections in USA hockey as I'm sure Hakstol does and he won't hold onto that 7 figure job or gain any job security by 'feeding his ego' as you claim. In fact, this probably does more to hurt Hakstol as far as future job prospects in the league by upsetting other GMs with close connections to USA hockey. I don't see how him supporting the initiative(whether or not you agree with it) with a tweet is so terrible. No one's saying pin a Purple Heart on the guy, are they?

I'm standing by it. I think when it comes to hot button issues, where something isn't necessarily black and white (like this shouldn't have been) and you jump in as a crusader for the "underdog", I don't think it's as a selfless act. We live in a very narcissistic society, everyone wants to look good. I absolutely think for this issue, it would have been brave to go against what the media / heroes thought as unjust and came at it from a more common sense perspective like most on this board have. That there are things they had to work on, but maybe USA Hockey has a point about not employing athletes and maybe what they asked for was absurd. How many people in the media / politicians / athletes (coaches) came out and publically stated that? 0. How many were crusaders? Everyone else.

[cberkas]

The women's hockey national team has now made it impossible for college players to play for the national team. Since these women are getting paid, I see the NCAA saying you got paid and now your eligibility is gone.

i think Hakstol was asked his thoughts on it while the meetings between the women and USA Hockey were going on in Philadelphia. Is Hakstol playing hero? Not to me, because this is the first time I've heard him talk about it. Now Brad has been playing hero for a long time. 

 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

6 minutes ago, AJS said:

I'm standing by it. I think when it comes to hot button issues, where something isn't necessarily black and white (like this shouldn't have been) and you jump in as a crusader for the "underdog", I don't think it's as a selfless act. We live in a very narcissistic society, everyone wants to look good. I absolutely think for this issue, it would have been brave to go against what the media / heroes thought as unjust and came at it from a more common sense perspective like most on this board have. That there are things they had to work on, but maybe USA Hockey has a point about not employing athletes and maybe what they asked for was absurd. How many people in the media / politicians / athletes (coaches) came out and publically stated that? 0. How many were crusaders? Everyone else.

Gonna agree to disagree, feels like you're making more of it than it is.  Using words like hero, selfless, crusader seem extreme and were never used by Hakstol or anyone else explaining him.  I'm not arguing whether or not the women's team had a legitimate gripe(don't have enough information) but, to me, Hakstol supporting their cause isn't a terrible thing. Especially if he has more information about it than I do.

[WiSioux]

USA women are winning 2-0

[KoolGuy2K]

Go Canada Eh!!

[sioux rube]

24 minutes ago, WiSioux said:

USA women are winning 2-0

And that's the final 

[MafiaMan]

Saw a couple of Team USA flops and dives that would make a UMD Bulldog fan proud.

[brianvf]

12 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

Saw a couple of Team USA flops and dives that would make a UMD Bulldog fan proud.

The UMD players don't get paid to flop and dive though. 

[Rebel_Sioux]

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 10:32 AM, gfhockey said:

Philly wants him fired lol. 

Hmm. The two Philly friends I have like him but that's a small sampling size. Firing him would be incredibly short sighted at this point...especially considering they made the playoffs last year.

[John W.]

Women's National Team...10 current and former Gophers on the team.  6 for US, 2 for Canada and 2 for Finland...that tells you  a big reason for the demise of UND women's hockey....recruiting...recruiting...recruiting...!!!!