Conference Realignments - Take 2

[CMSioux]

Love how when UND was invited to a western conference (that rejected their team) the trolls talked about how expensive travel would be, not a good fit geographically, hurt regional recruiting, etc. Now they are faced with a conference that is crumbling around them and starting to look west and seem to have none of these issues.

[bincitysioux]

I can't figure out the Denver move in the first place considering they said they knew going in that UMKC was leaving, that's why I thought there was more going on behind the scenes that nobody knew about, but as of now nothing new so...

Me thinks that may have been a bit of BS from Denver's AD on that subject.

[jodcon]

Me thinks that may have been a bit of BS from Denver's AD on that subject.

As it goes on I'm thinking you're right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hNIX7V21pU&feature=player_detailpage

[darell1976]

Who knows. My guess is that Denver is coveted enough by both the Summit and WAC that they could afford to wait it out and see what happens to the Summit. If it falls apart, they'd likely be immediately re-admitted to the WAC.

I don't think the Big Sky is going to look at anybody unless they have defections, which seems unlikely right now. Fullerton's #1 priority right now is to get Idaho football into the league with the rest of their sports.

If you look who's in the WAC for basketball..I don't know if DU would want to go back, its not the conference they are playing in now.

[bincitysioux]

If you look who's in the WAC for basketball..I don't know if DU would want to go back, its not the conference they are playing in now.

If there is no Summit, they may have no choice.

Even with Creighton apparently staying in the MVC, alot still needs to play out. It will be interesting to see what the A-10 does. Even if the Catholic 7 doesn't take Detroit Mercy (which I personally think is unlikely), they may end up being a target of the A-10 once the Catholic 7 gets done plundering them. That is when the Horizon may start looking at Summit schools.

[darell1976]

If there is no Summit, they may have no choice.

Even with Creighton apparently staying in the MVC, alot still needs to play out. It will be interesting to see what the A-10 does. Even if the Catholic 7 doesn't take Detroit Mercy (which I personally think is unlikely), they may end up being a target of the A-10 once the Catholic 7 gets done plundering them. That is when the Horizon may start looking at Summit schools.

Very true. Why do I see USD being left out. They have had little to no success yet and are in a bad spot if the Summit dissolves into nothing. I think turning away the BSC killed any chance to join unless the schools forgive them.

[zonadub]

Who knows. My guess is that Denver is coveted enough by both the Summit and WAC that they could afford to wait it out and see what happens to the Summit. If it falls apart, they'd likely be immediately re-admitted to the WAC.

I don't think the Big Sky is going to look at anybody unless they have defections, which seems unlikely right now. Fullerton's #1 priority right now is to get Idaho football into the league with the rest of their sports.

Very true. Why do I see USD being left out. They have had little to no success yet and are in a bad spot if the Summit dissolves into nothing. I think turning away the BSC killed any chance to join unless the schools forgive them.

The Big Sky is full... waiting for Idaho. (see bincity's post above)

More likely that the Summit will end up looking to the WAC for a merger.

[iramurphy]

Big Sky schools should never schedule anything in any sport with NDSU after Gene Taylor's idiotic remarks. Talk about an AD that seems to be stressed out and out of control. In the future before he says anything he should stop and think for a second. He has made some very poor verbal decisions in the last few months.

That would be as dumb as Taylor whining about the Big Sky. Big Sky schools want good competition. Dealing with Taylors arrogance can be a pain, but who cares? The contract should protect them if Taylor does it right and also if done right protect the Big Sky school. If they don't wish to deal fairly, then ignore them til the next guy or gal replaces him. They (and the SD schools) would still be good additions to the Big Sky and they may need the Big Sky in the future. They don't want that right now and the Big Sky doesn't care. I would still leave that door open. The Big Sky may be the vehicle to move up to FBS for UND and NDSU especially if the WAC wants to survive. That would mean an occasional big bowl game but no more National Championships. It would mean playing at the highest level which both schools need to be prepared to do. Probably not in the near future but can't rule it out.

[VMeister]

They (and the SD schools) would still be good additions to the Big Sky and they may need the Big Sky in the future. They don't want that right now and the Big Sky doesn't care. I would still leave that door open.

If they needed the Big Sky (and UND's help to get in), it would be almost impossible to imagine the entertainment value. #EatingaShitSandwich#

[The Sicatoka]

I'm spending more time lately out and reading other forums and learning about potential conference realignment goings-on. (I miss "star2city" because he'd normally be that guy around here.)

What I've seen recently (and there's enough smoke to believe there's something to it, especially when eastern newspapers are writing about it):

The Big Can't Count (aka B1G) has the University of Virginia as their next target, with the University of North Carolina next up after that.

Crazy talk you say? From 16 they'd go to 18 with Georgia Tech and maybe Duke.

Why those four? They're all Association of American Universities schools.

The approach wouldn't surprise me. The B1G is playing a game of tactics not driven by football, but by money, money from the B1G Network, and from Federal funds via the Association of American Universities (AAU) and the B1G's CIC.

The real issues here have nothing to do with football and everything to do with revenue streams of which Federal Grant money is the biggest, bigger even by far than TV revenue.

The Big 10 is talking Southern expansion not to gain football recruiting grounds, or even competitive football powers. They are talking Southern expansion because of the census. They will lose about 5 to 7 more house seats in their footprint by the time the next census is taken. The House controls appropriations. The AAU is looking to shrink not to grow. The SEC has 4 AAU schools no threat to the projected 13 when this latest round of Big 10 expansion is over. The Big 10 has 1 existing school, Indiana, that might find itself on the bubble should the AAU contract. The Big 12 has three AAU schools of which Kansas and Iowa State would be very close to being on the bubble if the AAU contracts. That leaves Texas as a solid AAU member in the Big 12. The present ACC has Duke, UNC, Virginia, Pittsburgh, and Georgia Tech solidly in the AAU. Miami is on the bubble to get in.

What Delany is doing, besides the stated market expansion for the BTN, which is really a smokescreen, is trying to insure a controlling vote in the AAU at a time when contraction may occur. Federal Grant money for research is a huge priority and lifeline for the Big 10. Should Duke, UNC, Pittsburgh, and Virginia ever wind up in the SEC and further SEC expansion include Georgia Tech and Texas, then all of the sudden the SEC's version of the CIC (and they do have one just not many many members that add to it at present) becomes very competitive for those Federal research dollars.

The Big 10 looks to be very offensively minded in expansion, but even that is not entirely the reality. Their move after 4 Southern AAU schools is purely defensive from the standpoint of grant money. When the South has more House seats it will have more leverage with which to obtain those funds, some at the Big 10's expense. If Delany wraps up those 4 AAU schools he seeks then the Big 10 maintains leverage within the membership of the AAU which helps to protect Indiana, and to exclude future Southern members by vote. It's all about maintaining access to the Federal teat. And I sure can't blame them for trying to do that.

...

I realize you know this stuff, but many new posters here who are touting SEC supremacy or Big 10 supremacy never bother to consider that forces well beyond football roused these conferences from their comfort zones to start all of this mess. And it's not greed that drives them, it's fear.

[FargoBison]

So some thoughts.... Perhaps UMKC moved to the WAC with inside knowledge that the Summit is going collapse. It appears that Creighton will not be leaving the MVC. WashingtonPost

Now if that happens, there will be no going to the MVC for the xDSUs. Perhaps Taylor's words aimed at the BigSky and the commissioner are not so much a result of MSU backing out, but rather a result of the BigSky turning down NDSU recently...

Who knows... Just some thoughts. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

That article kind of loses its credibility when the writer starts talking about adding Siena and Detroit to the Catholic Seven League, never going to happen. ESPN had a completely different take on what they were going to do.

Seems to be that Butler and Xavier are the only sure things right now, both of those schools have been caught touring other Catholic Seven facilities. Plus they are still battling with Fox over have 10, 12 or even 14 teams.

[bincitysioux]

That article kind of loses its credibility when the writer starts talking about adding Siena and Detroit to the Catholic Seven League, never going to happen.

I don't know, I can kind of see why Siena would be in play. This season aside, they've been pretty good in recent years, have a great facility, draw 7,000 per game, located in New York (C7 will want their tournament at Madison Square Garden), are private (and catholic to boot), and are basketball-centric.

I don't know anything about Detroit. But the "midwestern division" will need someone in that area.

I think it's unlikely that the C7 takes both Xavier and Dayton.

[FargoBison]

I don't know, I can kind of see why Siena would be in play. This season aside, they've been pretty good in recent years, have a great facility, draw 7,000 per game, located in New York (C7 will want their tournament at Madison Square Garden), are private (and catholic to boot), and are basketball-centric.

I don't know anything about Detroit. But the "midwestern division" will need someone in that area.

I think it's unlikely that the C7 takes both Xavier and Dayton.

I think Siena could be an option down the road, I just think the C7 would want to see them prove themselves in a better conference like the A10 first. They have been pretty bad over the past few years. I could see the same going for Detroit, except I don't think Detroit has really done much since the 90s which is why I really doubt them being added.

I think that is part of the reason why the schools only wanted to go to 10 schools. They don't want to add a so-so program but Fox is pushing them to go bigger so they have more inventory.

The crazy thing about realignment, that writer says that and ESPN says this on basically the same day...Who do you believe?

The new league, yet to be formed, is expected to have 12-to-14 members. The most likely candidates to join the Catholic schools, sources have told ESPN, are Butler, Xavier, Creighton, Dayton, Saint Louis, Richmond and VCU

http://espn.go.com/c...fer-sources-say

[farce poobah]

I'm spending more time lately out and reading other forums and learning about potential conference realignment goings-on. (I miss "star2city" because he'd normally be that guy around here.)

What I've seen recently (and there's enough smoke to believe there's something to it, especially when eastern newspapers are writing about it):

The Big Can't Count (aka B1G) has the University of Virginia as their next target, with the University of North Carolina next up after that.

Crazy talk you say? From 16 they'd go to 18 with Georgia Tech and maybe Duke.

Why those four? They're all Association of American Universities schools.

The approach wouldn't surprise me. The B1G is playing a game of tactics not driven by football, but by money, money from the B1G Network, and from Federal funds via the Association of American Universities (AAU) and the B1G's CIC.

Thanks for posting.

Kind of interesting to go through the Association of American Universities and note those to which UND has had some form of connection in athletics. A foot in the door toward research funding, so to speak, which is, as you note, where the real money is.

[zonadub]

I'm spending more time lately out and reading other forums and learning about potential conference realignment goings-on. (I miss "star2city" because he'd normally be that guy around here.)

What I've seen recently (and there's enough smoke to believe there's something to it, especially when eastern newspapers are writing about it):

The Big Can't Count (aka B1G) has the University of Virginia as their next target, with the University of North Carolina next up after that.

Crazy talk you say? From 16 they'd go to 18 with Georgia Tech and maybe Duke.

Why those four? They're all Association of American Universities schools.

The approach wouldn't surprise me. The B1G is playing a game of tactics not driven by football, but by money, money from the B1G Network, and from Federal funds via the Association of American Universities (AAU) and the B1G's CIC.

Bringing credence to the axiom that it is university presidents, not athletic directors and coaches and especially not fan board trolls, that decide who gets in to a conference and who doesn't. As has often been said about the Montana's pulling strings to get UND into the Big Sky - they are looking to add schools with the same mission. And probably a big part of why Denver did not want to stay in the new WAC.

[bincitysioux]

I think Siena could be an option down the road, I just think the C7 would want to see them prove themselves in a better conference like the A10 first. They have been pretty bad over the past few years. I could see the same going for Detroit, except I don't think Detroit has really done much since the 90s which is why I really doubt them being added.

I think that is part of the reason why the schools only wanted to go to 10 schools. They don't want to add a so-so program but Fox is pushing them to go bigger so they have more inventory.

The crazy thing about realignment, that writer says that and ESPN says this on basically the same day...Who do you believe?

http://espn.go.com/c...fer-sources-say

I don't know that I believe any of them at this point!

If FOX has enough pull to influence the number of teams, they will certainly massage the geography of it as well. As I said, I don't see both Dayton and Xavier making it in, because there is too much market overlap. If Richmond truly is a candidate, then VCU certainly is not. Not only is there market overlap, but they are not private either.

[GFG]

There's been quite a few reports going around Twitter today that the Big Ten has extended an invite to North Carolina to join the conference. Still looking between Virginia and Georgia Tech for the next.

[darell1976]

There's been quite a few reports going around Twitter today that the Big Ten has extended an invite to North Carolina to join the conference. Still looking between Virginia and Georgia Tech for the next.

Just how many teams does that conference need? Why don't they suck up the rest of the Big 12.

[Bison Dan]

Just how many teams does that conference need? Why don't they suck up the rest of the Big 12.

Sounds to me that the B1G network is driving this.

[darell1976]

Sounds to me that the B1G network is driving this.

But by adding more schools doesn't that eat into the revenue pot that the schools get.

[The Sicatoka]

Sounds to me that the B1G network is driving this.

It's being driven by money, but not the money you may expect.

http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/16061-conference-realignments-take-2/page__st__1200#entry609846

[The Sicatoka]

If the B1G were able to get UVa and UNC they'd have done some major things:

- effectively killed the ACC (VaTech, NC State, and Miami would go begging to the SEC; FSU and Clemson would probably call the Big XII)

- added two AAU schools to the B1G's CIC -- additional lobbying power in Congress

- added a ton of new TVs to the B1G Network

- set up their next targets: 2 of 3 of Duke, GaTech, and Notre Dame

Delany and the B1G are playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers.

[darell1976]

If the B1G were able to get UVa and UNC they'd have done some major things:

- effectively killed the ACC (VaTech, NC State, and Miami would go begging to the SEC; FSU and Clemson would probably call the Big XII)

- added two AAU schools to the B1G's CIC -- additional lobbying power in Congress

- added a ton of new TVs to the B1G Network

- set up their next targets: 2 of 3 of Duke, GaTech, and Notre Dame

Delany and the B1G are playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers.

Talk about a huge footprint from UNC to Nebraska.

[Smoggy]

What's better between 16 or 14? 14 leaves all division for fb with two rivals from other division. 16 leaves one extra rivalry from other division. But it can't be a coincidence that B1G has been talking upping their conference games. What works better for bball? I would think you want to do home and home with division while playing each non-division once. Too many with 16? How they make divisions will be the interesting bit. The new guard will want to be paired with old, but old will also want old.

[jodcon]

Think of the credibility they could gain with UNC and Duke basketball, they would be what the SEC is to football.

Notre Dame's hangup as always would be their TV contract, but if they could get around that the B1G would be pretty impressive (at the top anyway).