Conference Realignments - Take 2

[dmksioux]

With all this UND to the MVFC/Summit talk might want to think about this....how is the relationship between dumbass, I mean Douple and President Kelley? Both pointed fingers at each other in the whole nickname thing. So UND going to the Summit may face that roadblock but if Douple is desperate he may kiss Kelley's ass to get his school as a member. I only see UND going as long as we get the same deal as South Dakota. Its either MVFC/Summit or no deal.

Just message board speculation and I'm guessing that's all it will ever be. The posters I've seen speculating about this tend to be bison fans. I would agree with Bin. We won't be leaving the Big Sky unless the Montana schools go...hopefully we would be a part of whatever move they make.

[jimdahl]

I've been a little surprised to read this speculation about UND to MVFC/Summit, but then noticed that almost everyone expresses a preference for Big Sky and no one has stated any significant advantages to Summit.

Do any UND fans really prefer Summit (and if so, why)? Or are we just repeating speculation from Summit affiliates who think they would benefit from UND's membership? The only benefit I could see would be the historical/geographical rivalries, but no one seems to care about those anymore.

[homer]

I'll take the Big Sky- gives us another different selling point from the other regional schools for regional recruits and a real nice selling point to recruits within the conference footprint if we choose to recruit those areas. Also, having the opportunity to play the regional schools non conference makes for a nice schedule.

The Summit footprint is expanding, not shrinking and the conference has teams lined up to exit. It has always been a revolving door and that will never change.

[Dagger]

With the ability to either go to or watch all conference games on television their is no doubt I much prefer the Big Sky. I very much like the idea of having our football, men's basketball, women's basketball and volleyball all in the same conference. Hockey is in a different conference but we don't need to worry about them. I love the Big Sky. It just looks and sounds more big time than the MVFC/ Summit. It has a lot more appealing locations.

[NDSUguy]

my 2 cents as an outsider....

1. Big Sky has a far superior TV deal to the Summit - Advantage Big Sky

2. Footprint - This really should be in favor of Summit but might vary depending on your ponit of view (i.e. timezones, "cooler" locations, "not-ncc teams"). The summit footprint (even with Denver and Oakland) is in reality much smaller than the Big Sky with far more schools to bus to.

3. Non-Football Sports - The Summit league has consistently ranked higher in conference RPI in mens basketball (and has gone back and forth in the other sports)

4. Football - I'm not going to get into a pissing match over which is the better/harder conference. For arguments sake lets call the conferences even.

Personally, I don't really care if UND stays in the Big Sky or not. I think that the addition of Denver does add to the conference (especially if Oakland is not able to jump to the Horizon League). With the improving men's basketball programs at NDSU/SDSU, I can see the "prestige" of the Summit improving over the next 5 years. I think that the overarching goal is to consistently reach the top 15 status in conference RPI.

[Dagger]

I RPI of the Summit over the years was greatly affected by having Oral Roberts in the league. They aren't there anymore. Those RPI's might take a hit. I agree that if you lose Oakland it would be a major hit.

[UND1983]

With the improving men's basketball programs at NDSU/SDSU, I can see the "prestige" of the Summit improving over the next 5 years. I think that the overarching goal is to consistently reach the top 15 status in conference RPI.

Not quite sure that NDSU is improving in basketball. As near as I can tell they have gotten worse and are now staying at that level.

[NDSUguy]

Oral Roberts did inflate the rpi in the past however with SDSU, NDSU and Oakland having good RPI's I expect that the teams have improved more than the loss of Oral Roberts.

[NDSUguy]

Not quite sure that NDSU is improving in basketball. As near as I can tell they have gotten worse and are now staying at that level.

The team has recruited very well over the past two years and will challenge for the Summit league title this year. They just won a tournament in Pittsburgh last week where they beat Youngstown and Duquesne (both quality teams from good leagues).

[zonadub]

I know this will irk the Bison posters & trolls, but the Summit is still not a destination conference. Yes, the Missouri Valley is a destination mid major conference, but the MVFC has not invited UND. The Big Sky, on the other hand is very stable.

Yes, the addition of a hockey rival to the Summit does make it a little more desirable, and familiar old rivals of the days when some of us were students are appealing, BUT the Big Sky was always a dream, and now it's a dream fulfilled. I say the Sky is the best place for UND.

[UND1983]

The team has recruited very well over the past two years and will challenge for the Summit league title this year. They just won a tournament in Pittsburgh last week where they beat Youngstown and Duquesne (both quality teams from good leagues).

You need to do more research. I take nothing away from 3 wins on the road, which is tough to do. But, Duquesne is picked dead last in their conference and James Madison is very bad. YSU is a pretty good team and was a nice win.

I was speaking off recent history of their basketball team. They have not gotten any better since making the tourney, in fact, they have gotten worse. We will see how their recruiting has gone in a few years but the tallest guy he has recruited in the past two years is 6'5" and he seems to be settling for local players with no other offers. Like I said, we will see how they turn out in a few years.

[Dagger]

I am not sure how to read this. According to most Bison fans the last couple of years UND is awful in basketball. UND did beat both NDSU and SDSU last year. Either UND is very good or NDSU might not be helping the Summits RPI as much as their fans say.

[The Sicatoka]

And the hits keep coming ...

Speculation is Tulane will be joining the Big East for all sports and that East Carolina will become a football-only member of the Big East.

[bincitysioux]

I've been a little surprised to read this speculation about UND to MVFC/Summit, but then noticed that almost everyone expresses a preference for Big Sky and no one has stated any significant advantages to Summit.

Do any UND fans really prefer Summit (and if so, why)? Or are we just repeating speculation from Summit affiliates who think they would benefit from UND's membership? The only benefit I could see would be the historical/geographical rivalries, but no one seems to care about those anymore.

I think the only North Dakota fans that really still pine for the Summit are those that still long for the Sioux-Bison rivalry. The only tangible advantage to a Summit/MVFC combo from a fan's perspective would be the ability for those living in the Dakotas and Minnesota would be more easily accessible road games. Personally, I think that's a relatively minor thing given the what the rest of the Big Sky has to offer.

Aside from the perception that the Big Sky is a more prestigous league, I was an advocate of pursing membership in that league long before an invitation was ever extended to North Dakota for two main reasons:

1. Opponent continuity. I think it is much preferable to have the same opponents in football and basketball, especially in UND's case where where the marquee program is already in its own single-sport leauge.

2. Non-conference scheduling. This year's men's basketball schedule is a perfect example. Not only are we guaranteed annual games against prominent regional schools like Montana, Montana St., and soon Idaho; a perennial mid-major power in Weber St.; and a familiar foe in Northern Colorado; but also we are playing schools with regional appeal in NDSU, SDSU, and Northern Iowa. I think this is a great recipe for building interest in the basketball programs, which sorely need it.

[bincitysioux]

Oral Roberts did inflate the rpi in the past however with SDSU, NDSU and Oakland having good RPI's I expect that the teams have improved more than the loss of Oral Roberts.

Fargo has done surprisingly well in men's basketball since the move to DI. I wonder if they will be able to keep it up. They were a perennial also-ran in the NCC days. Losing Oral Roberts and potentially Oakland one day will help keep them in the top half of the Summit standings in the future.

[FargoBison]

You need to do more research. I take nothing away from 3 wins on the road, which is tough to do. But, Duquesne is picked dead last in their conference and James Madison is very bad. YSU is a pretty good team and was a nice win.

I was speaking off recent history of their basketball team. They have not gotten any better since making the tourney, in fact, they have gotten worse. We will see how their recruiting has gone in a few years but the tallest guy he has recruited in the past two years is 6'5" and he seems to be settling for local players with no other offers. Like I said, we will see how they turn out in a few years.

Team has improved and won more games each season and they might very well win 20 games this year. AJ Jacobson was a good recruit for the Bison and had offers from multiple DI schools not named NDSU. Dexter Werner had other offers as well.

As for the other debate....I'd be interested to see how UND's admin would react to a Summit/MVFC invite. I think there would be some coaches for it, easier travel, rivals and they'd be in their recruiting footprint.

[UND1983]

Team has improved and won more games each season and they might very well win 20 games this year. AJ Jacobson was a good recruit for the Bison and had offers from multiple DI schools not named NDSU. Dexter Werner had other offers as well.

As for the other debate....I'd be interested to see how UND's admin would react to a Summit/MVFC invite. I think there would be some coaches for it, easier travel, rivals and they'd be in their recruiting footprint.

They each had one offer - from Cal-Poly. If you think your team is getting better, thats fine, but the three straight first round exits don't indicate that. As a UND fan I am all for that kind of "improvement".

[FargoBison]

They each had one offer - from Cal-Poly. If you think your team is getting better, thats fine, but the three straight first round exits don't indicate that. As a UND fan I am all for that kind of "improvement".

The basketball team was terrible after Woodside graduated, we had one good player and a bunch of role players. We lost to ORU in the Summit tournament who was far better than us, same thing happened the next year but then we at least had young talented players with no experience. The loss to WIU though was bad, getting swept by them was worse but they were the hot team at the end of the season. I fully expect to be playing SDSU in the Summit title game this year, this team is starting to click.

Werner had three offers besides NDSU...I was told that from a solid source. UNI recruited Jacobson heavily and so did Creighton, other smaller schools backed off because he was very likely going to NDSU.

[UND1983]

The basketball team was terrible after Woodside graduated, we had one good player and a bunch of role players. We lost to ORU in the Summit tournament who was far better than us, same thing happened the next year but then we at least had young talented players with no experience. The loss to WIU though was bad, getting swept by them was worse but they were the hot team at the end of the season. I fully expect to be playing SDSU in the Summit title game this year, this team is starting to click.

Werner had three offers besides NDSU...I was told that from a solid source. UNI recruited Jacobson heavily and so did Creighton, other smaller schools backed off because he was very likely going to NDSU.

Fair enough. With football recruiting coming up we will now know to count "recruited heavily" the same as an offer. BisonDan, got that? He is the one who worries most about who got offers and from whom.

[SiouxVolley]

The basketball team was terrible after Woodside graduated, we had one good player and a bunch of role players. We lost to ORU in the Summit tournament who was far better than us, same thing happened the next year but then we at least had young talented players with no experience. The loss to WIU though was bad, getting swept by them was worse but they were the hot team at the end of the season. I fully expect to be playing SDSU in the Summit title game this year, this team is starting to click.

Werner had three offers besides NDSU...I was told that from a solid source. UNI recruited Jacobson heavily and so did Creighton, other smaller schools backed off because he was very likely going to NDSU.

Last year, didn't NDSU also win a November tournament in the Bay Area and then never did anything substantial? The Canada trip in August probably helped that team a lot, as it has a couple weeks of off season practice and games. Later, as that early advantage was lost, NDSU lost its edge against other teams.

At this point, its hard to argue that the Summit isn't a better bb league than the Sky. One of the Summits cellar dwellers moved to the Sky, which balanced off the ORU loss and made the Sky worse. The Sky has had few wins over other D1 teams, while the Summit ha several. That said, when Wolters graduates an if Oakland leaves, the Summit RPI could have a big drop. In the Sky, schools other than Weber and Montana really need to pick it up.

[crashnburn]

As for the other debate....I'd be interested to see how UND's admin would react to a Summit/MVFC invite. I think there would be some coaches for it, easier travel, rivals and they'd be in their recruiting footprint.

I would tend to think the reaction would be much like getting invited back into the WCHA2.0 (island of misfit toys). Why would anyone want to be in a conference whose entire membership would prefer to be in different, "better" conferences? (MVC, Horizon, etc.)

[UNDvince97-01]

Hey at least "Denver University" fits the Summit League naming philosophy. They won't need to make them change their name.

That had to be attractive for the Summit League.

[jdub27]

Last year, didn't NDSU also win a November tournament in the Bay Area and then never did anything substantial? The Canada trip in August probably helped that team a lot, as it has a couple weeks of off season practice and games. Later, as that early advantage was lost, NDSU lost its edge against other teams.

At this point, its hard to argue that the Summit isn't a better bb league than the Sky. One of the Summits cellar dwellers moved to the Sky, which balanced off the ORU loss and made the Sky worse. The Sky has had few wins over other D1 teams, while the Summit ha several. That said, when Wolters graduates an if Oakland leaves, the Summit RPI could have a big drop. In the Sky, schools other than Weber and Montana really need to pick it up.

They are both one bid leagues no matter how you slice it. Last year, the Summit as a conference had a higher RPI than the Big Sky yet Montana got a higher seed than South Dakota State. You are talking about the difference between a 13 and 14 seed or worse pretty much every year.

[homer]

Hey at least "Denver University" fits the Summit League naming philosophy. They won't need to make them change their name.

That had to be attractive for the Summit League.

That had to be key. Chicago St., Houston Baptist or New Jersey Institute of Technology will also be prime candidates after Oakland and maybe IUPUI leave in the future. Douple's plan is unfolding perfectly.

[FargoBison]

I would tend to think the reaction would be much like getting invited back into the WCHA2.0 (island of misfit toys). Why would anyone want to be in a conference whose entire membership would prefer to be in different, "better" conferences? (MVC, Horizon, etc.)

Well I agree a Summit only offer isn't good enough but an MVFC offer is what would make things interesting. There are Summit schools that want to be elsewhere but most have nowhere to go which is a similar situation to the Big Sky.