New Nickname

[Siouxperfan7]

So who should be allowed to vote when the list is narrowed down?  I think it should be UND alumni, Champions Club members, season ticket holders, UND students/staff/faculty, and Grand Forks residents.  While this is who I think should be allowed to vote, it will most likely cover a borader scope of people.  One thing that I hope they do is make voting for the name a little bit more of a process so it turns away people that voted for the name and submitted dumb/ignorant/racist suggestions and lets the people that actually care about the name to make their vote.  I don't think having a special election and physically having people come to the polls is an option.  There are many alumni out of state that make significant contributions to the University that deffinitley would want a say in the process.  My suggestion is to still make it available online, but make the process of submitting the vote easy but at the same time make it so the voter has to fill out a form with their name, email, address, etc.  I think this will turn away people that don't really have the time to fill out the online form because they don't really care and ensure that the people voting actully want to make their voice heard and take the time and effort to do so.  Not sure wha tthe best option is going to be, but this one makes the most sense, I think.

[petey23]

So who should be allowed to vote when the list is narrowed down?  I think it should be UND alumni, Champions Club members, season ticket holders, UND students/staff/faculty, and Grand Forks residents.  While this is who I think should be allowed to vote, it will most likely cover a borader scope of people.  One thing that I hope they do is make voting for the name a little bit more of a process so it turns away people that voted for the name and submitted dumb/ignorant/racist suggestions and lets the people that actually care about the name to make their vote.  I don't think having a special election and physically having people come to the polls is an option.  There are many alumni out of state that make significant contributions to the University that deffinitley would want a say in the process.  My suggestion is to still make it available online, but make the process of submitting the vote easy but at the same time make it so the voter has to fill out a form with their name, email, address, etc.  I think this will turn away people that don't really have the time to fill out the online form because they don't really care and ensure that the people voting actully want to make their voice heard and take the time and effort to do so.  Not sure wha tthe best option is going to be, but this one makes the most sense, I think.

At a bare minimum.......no, absolute bare minimum the process better be at least this difficult to enter a vote.....and I might remove Grand Forks Residents from the list of approved voters based on the fact that if they don't fall into one of the other categories they probably aren't that interested anyway.To put it another way, the list of voters should already be on file through UND  and your vote should be registered as a response to an email or postcard you receive from UND. If your email and/or physical address isn't in the UND database as a part of one of these groups you didn't make the cut.

 

Now that the sideshow part of the show is over.........

 

it is time for the committee to do their job

eliminate the crap

let Cletus and Jethro get back to their studies in Fargo and their Beavis and Butthead marathons......thanks for all the brilliant suggestions fellas! Real intelligent highbrow funny stuff!

Pick a name and logo and hope that over the next 30-40 years it catches on.

[siouxfan512]

At a bare minimum.......no, absolute bare minimum the process better be at least this difficult to enter a vote.....and I might remove Grand Forks Residents from the list of approved voters based on the fact that if they don't fall into one of the other categories they probably aren't that interested anyway.To put it another way, the list of voters should already be on file through UND  and your vote should be registered as a response to an email or postcard you receive from UND. If your email and/or physical address isn't in the UND database as a part of one of these groups you didn't make the cut.

 

Now that the sideshow part of the show is over.........

 

it is time for the committee to do their job

eliminate the crap

let Cletus and Jethro get back to their studies in Fargo and their Beavis and Butthead marathons......thanks for all the brilliant suggestions fellas! Real intelligent highbrow funny stuff!

Pick a name and logo and hope that over the next 30-40 years it catches on.

 

University of North Dakota Fighting Cornholios!?!?!? We can all through TP on the ice during games.

[Maddogg1971]

Isn't there a Clifford offspring we could hire? He and Ralph must be rolling over in their graves right now. 

[mksioux]

Thanks for the info Jim. Great logic by UND........these ones are to popular so let's pick the least popular because there are more domain options.....yikes.

Also just read the herald article and Karl does say the vote will be open to everyone.......what a complete joke. Just wait for that vote, this is going to get ALL OVER the Internet. I'm sure glad Kelly wants to be that inclusive where the whole country can vote on our schools nickname. There will end up being more people with no connection to UND voting on the name than people with a connection after deadspin and all the other sites pick it up. As a supporter I am not to thrilled about that idea.

It has been known for a while that the vote will be open to anyone.  What is not known at this point (at least not to me) is how the vote will be taken.  I hope they make it kind of hard to vote (by U.S. mail or in person for example)  Because if you combine open voting with easy internet voting, you're asking for trouble.  You're not only opening it up to rival fans, but you're opening it up to the idiots at deadspin, and the like, that just want to mess with the process.  We will have to pray that there is no weak link among the finalists, because you can bet the weak link would be chosen. 

[mksioux]

I think the publicity is actually really good for UND.  I see nothing in the process that makes the university look bad.  Publicity is a good thing.

 

If you want to strike back against The Man, though, you should start looking at the domain names that they bought, and then vote en masse for a name that's not on their list.  If there's any thought that it's a rigged contest, or even a directed contest, you can blow it out of the water.

 

Public internet votes are a very bad idea, but the p.r. firm doesn't appear to know research.  All the better, because it gives us a chance to influence the outcome.  You're all welcome to join me as I assemble and mobilize the Ermine Army, the greatest Mulstilidae force ever assembled.  We shall UNDermine all opponents!    

I'll make a deal with you - I'll consider your beloved nickname if you drop your anonymity and tell us who you are.  

[jimdahl]

It has been known for a while that the vote will be open to anyone.  What is not known at this point (at least not to me) is how the vote will be taken.  I hope they make it kind of hard to vote (by U.S. mail or in person for example)  Because if you combine open voting with easy internet voting, you're asking for trouble.  You're not only opening it up to rival fans, but you're opening it up to the idiots at deadspin, and the like, that just want to mess with the process.  We will have to pray that there is no weak link among the finalists, because you can bet the weak link would be chosen. 

 

Yep, if it's any sort of open anonymous Internet (like the name submission) the worst of the three will win. I assume they'll account for that.

[The Sicatoka]

I assume they'll account for that.

 

Have you and I ever talked about the word 'assume' ...  

[Siouxphan27]

Mr./Ms. Ermine- you seem to know a lot about the process of choosing a name- how have other schools handled the voting/decision making process? TIA

[jimdahl]

Have you and I ever talked about the word 'assume' ...

 

I meant it as a not-so-subtle reminder to the UND officials reading the thread

[Maddogg1971]

I meant it as a not-so-subtle reminder to the UND officials reading the thread

I hope UND officials are reading this thread and see what a train wreck this has become.

[CMSioux]

Seems to me everything that UND does is considered a train wreck here - I wonder how they even keep the doors open? Can someone share something that UND has done right? (I am not an employee, not a spouse, not an apologist I am a businessman who has to actually make real-life decisions and listen to wannabe responses though). 

[jimdahl]

Seems to me everything that UND does is considered a train wreck here - I wonder how they even keep the doors open? Can someone share something that UND has done right? (I am not an employee, not a spouse, not an apologist I am a businessman who has to actually make real-life decisions and listen to wannabe responses though). 

 

I think the open nickname suggestion process was very well handled. The data dump of the suggestions was also a nice touch (though perhaps should've been accompanied by a note clarifying that it was an unedited dump).

 

I expressed a couple concerns about things that I thought might go less well in the next phase (I would find an overemphasis on the availability of goXXX.com a poor reason to reject a nickname, and I worried about potential ballot stuffing if a similar anonymous voting process is used to choose from the final three); but those aren't things UND has done wrong, those are things I hope they avoid doing wrong!

[siouxfantastic]

It's already been stated that the public will be able to vote for the finalists which I don't agree with. Fine, you let every Tom, Dick, and Harry submit suggestions. But you see how many people were just throwing out derogatory or offensive names because they don't care about UND. Now their going to go ahead and allow these same people a vote to choose the winning name?!? I just don't get it. At this point, the vote should be limited to students, alumni, faculty, donors, and season ticket holders and that's it. People who have a vested interest in the University.

agreed

[CMSioux]

Jim - call me naive but if we think that ballot stuffing might be an issue don't you think it might come up during their discussions and it would be something they could address. There are plenty of on-line surveys that limit you to one vote for example. The data dump is one of the damned if you do, damned if you don't.situations. It showed it was real, it wasn't edited, it wasn't intended to be anything but a reveal of what the committee was seeing. Personally I had no issue with it because my common sense told me that what we were seeing was a cut and paste of the submissions. I think they wanted the ugly stuff to see the light of day it caused some people to chuckle, got some nation-wide publicity and was a poor reflection on those that chose to show their ignorance. 

[siouxkid12]

I think the publicity is actually really good for UND.  I see nothing in the process that makes the university look bad.  Publicity is a good thing.

 

If you want to strike back against The Man, though, you should start looking at the domain names that they bought, and then vote en masse for a name that's not on their list.  If there's any thought that it's a rigged contest, or even a directed contest, you can blow it out of the water.

 

Public internet votes are a very bad idea, but the p.r. firm doesn't appear to know research.  All the better, because it gives us a chance to influence the outcome.  You're all welcome to join me as I assemble and mobilize the Ermine Army, the greatest Mulstilidae force ever assembled.  We shall UNDermine all opponents!    

Publicity? Getting laughed at on Deadsping, talk radio in South Carolina is good publicity? No, this vote for a nickname should have not been as open as it was. We all knew there were going to be dip$H!Ts that would go in and try to be funny and what does UND do, releases those nicknames that "won't" be considered. What good does that flippin do? I'm sorry to say this but to cut out all the idiots, this vote should have been done by current students and ALUMNI only (and anyone who donates to UND). That way you can cut out all the idiotic nicknames.

[jimdahl]

Jim - call me naive but if we think that ballot stuffing might be an issue don't you think it might come up during their discussions and it would be something they could address. There are plenty of on-line surveys that limit you to one vote for example.

 

Exactly!  I raised it as a potential mistake that I think they can avoid making. Though such a comment may seem negative, I'm not being critical of something UND has done (because it hasn't even happened yet), I'm raising it saying I hope they do it right.

[Siouxperfan7]

Alumni, Champions Club members, season ticket holders, faculty, current students, Grand Forks residents.  Those groups are the most invested stakeholders to UND.  They should be the only ones allowed to vote in deciding a nickname. Anyone have Goehring's email? 

[SIOUXFAN97]

Alumni, Champions Club members, season ticket holders, faculty, current students, Grand Forks residents.  Those groups are the most invested stakeholders to UND.  They should be the only ones allowed to vote in deciding a nickname. Anyone have Goehring's email? 

yes on all the previous but just being a gf residence doesn't mean you should get a vote imo

[siouxkid12]

Alumni, Champions Club members, season ticket holders, faculty, current students, Grand Forks residents.  Those groups are the most invested stakeholders to UND.  They should be the only ones allowed to vote in deciding a nickname. Anyone have Goehring's email? 

yes

[siouxfan512]

Alumni, Champions Club members, season ticket holders, faculty, current students, Grand Forks residents.  Those groups are the most invested stakeholders to UND.  They should be the only ones allowed to vote in deciding a nickname. Anyone have Goehring's email? 

 

THIS!!

[UNDErmines]

I'll make a deal with you - I'll consider your beloved nickname if you drop your anonymity and tell us who you are.  

 

If you'll consider ermines, I'm in, but it's not an exciting story.

 

I live on another sports board, and a North Dakota resident posted the story about this.  I own a market research firm that does a fair amount of brand research for various organizations and a fair amount of work for universities (maybe 15+% of our client base), so it intrigued me.  I've done a couple of projects about names changes for universities, and one of my coworkers did some mascot/logo work for a university, so I've seen some different processes.

 

We were brainstorming mascots and pretty much determined that Ermines would be a great name.  So I came here to help plant the seed.  I'm not a fan of college sports at all and have no ulterior motive other than to support the UND Ermines, and I'm also interested in watching the process from a professional basis.  I'll respond to another post with some observations about that process.

[petey23]

yes on all the previous but just being a gf residence doesn't mean you should get a vote imo

Correct. If a Grand Forks Resident hasn't found his/her way into one of the other groups I wouldn't call them invested.

[UNDErmines]

Mr./Ms. Ermine- you seem to know a lot about the process of choosing a name- how have other schools handled the voting/decision making process? TIA

 

I provided a little background in a previous post, but I own a market research company and while we work in several sectors, we've done a variety of research projects for universities.  I've been the research consultant for a couple of university name changes (the whole university, not just the mascot), and a coworker did some research for a mascot/logo.  I also do a lot of brand research and market research for other types of organizations.  My undergrad alma mater also changed names, so I watched that.

 

My background is therefore more changes to the entire university name than picking a mascot, but it's pretty similar.  I'll offer up my two name change experiences.

 

Experience 1 - The Easy One

 

It was easy for me, I guess, because I was the researcher.  The marketing company that came after me may have had a tougher ride, but I don't think it was bad.  I got called in by a large state university in the eastern U.S. that wanted to understand their brand and was also considering a name change.  My job was to understand how the school was perceived among many stakeholders.  My team did interviews or focus groups with state legislators, major donors, faculty and staff, and current students, and we did surveys of alumni, some specific professional groups, prospective students, and the general public (in the city, not statewide).  Our goal was to figure out what the university was in the minds of these audiences, which fed into the discussion of a name change.

 

This process went relatively smoothly because the University's name strongly reflected one particular degree program, which led to misperceptions about the strength of other programs at the school.  It was pretty clear that a name change was a good idea, so I think there wasn't a lot of outcry about the concept of doing so.  I don't recall details at this point, but I don't think there was even much resistance among alumni and current students, who are almost always going to be the biggest resistance.

 

I can't talk much about how the name change occurred - I do research, not marketing - but they had a pretty strong case for a change, and made a pretty radical name change.  There wasn't any public role in the decision, though.  It was an internal committee or the Board of Trustees or some similar group (after I left the process).

 

Experience 2 - The Tougher One

 

I came in as the second researcher to a large public school in the western U.S.  The university had originally hired a marketing firm to do the research, but they lost credibility at some point.  I don't know the details.  By the time I arrived, the school had three names in mind and there had been some battles in the state legislature and with another university about them.  Somewhere in the process they had gone to the students in a suggestion process, who picked an absolutely terrible name, and when they had to veto it the students were ticked off and active.  

 

So they brought my firm in to test some elements of the three finalist names with alumni, and I think that was the only group they vetted.  I'm sure there was some behind the scenes stuff with major donors, but it wasn't research if it was done, more just vetting.  By the point I arrived, it was such a battle that they determined that it was going to be one of the three names, and so we tested support and opposition to each name and identified one that seemed to have the broadest support and the most narrow opposition.

 

It was a pretty contentious process all around for unavoidable reasons.  In the end, the name change was not radical, but it accomplished their goals.  I think the Board of Trustees made the final call, and the school handled it well.  Again, not a public decision process at all, and I think they only tested it with alumni and VIPs (legislators).

 

Experience 3 - The Mascot Logo

 

I wasn't on this one, but a coworker was.  A school had selected a new mascot (don't know how - before we arrived) and they wanted to test some logos that incorporated the mascot.  If I remember right, we just did focus groups with students to test the option.  I wish I knew how they had picked the mascot, but I think this was a school that didn't previously have a mascot, so there wasn't the trauma of losing an old one.

 

When I think about your process at UND, here are my reactions:

 

1.  I think the suggestion process is great.  It seems that some of you find it embarrassing, but I don't think it is at all.  I think it's great publicity and fun.  It's building goodwill nationally.

 

2.  Playing amateur psychologist, I don't think people are mad about the process.  They're mad about losing the old mascot.  That's understandable and it's normal.  I personally have mixed feeling about removing Native American references and think an argument can be made in both directions.  But the truth is that the old mascot has to go, and the NCAA gave it a boost.  I think anger at the selection process now is misdirected.

 

3.  Moving forward, I think that this is a wonderful opportunity to create a new tradition (ermine).  You have a once in a lifetime chance to give the university (ermine) a new identity, and whether you're mad (ermine) about the old one or not, you should be jumping at the (ermine) chance to participate in the new process.

 

4.  There's zero chance that the final selection goes to a public input process. Zero.  If they're saying that, they're going to change their minds pretty quickly.  That's a disaster waiting to happen, and surely they understand that.  I like the suggestion put up earlier that various stakeholders can "vote", but even that should just be an input, and it should be a controlled process to ensure no ballot stuffing.  While there should be input from these groups in a controlled fashion (i.e., not just an unsecured online poll), some leader or leadership group (likely the Board of Trustees) needs to make the final call.

 

There's no way this goes to a public "vote" unless it's literally on the ballot, and I don't see that happening.  At the end of the day, it's just a mascot.

 

5.  I'm biased because I'm a researcher, but I would hope that they would do some objective research at some point.  You can do ad campaign testing where you go to a different market that's neutral to test, or you can have people sign confidentiality agreements, or you can do scientific surveys (NOT online polls) to vet concepts.  I hope they're doing that, but I don't know if they have a researcher on board.  As full disclosure, I pondered making a few calls about it, but business is good and I thought it would be more fun to lobby for Ermines (which is a great name).  If somehow Ermines get eliminated, maybe I'll make a call.  Ermines, ermines, ermines.

 

6.  I've never seen it done, but you know what would be a really cool process?  You pick two random students, two random alumni, two random VIPs (donors, etc.), two random faculty or staff, two locals, and two outsiders, and put them on a "jury".  Give them the list of ten semifinalists, and sequester them like a jury.  Put white smoke out the chimney once they've made a decision.  I bet you'd get a good choice and it would be a marketing coup.

[90siouxfan]

Could the vote be held where the more you are vested in UND the more of a vote you would have. For example, student = 1 vote, alumni = 1 vote, donor = 1 vote, faculty = 1 vote. The more you are, the more votes. You could even tie residency, donation amount, etc. For the masses you could give 1/10th of a vote (or 100th), that way the goofs & bizun fans could have their fun but no actual effect.