COMMITTED UND Recruits

[gfhockey]

41 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Livanavage is five weeks older than Spicer. 

And why aren't our knickers in a twist over losing a "local" (Gardner, from Warroad) to ... Clarkson. 

Cause as stoney Sioux says we didn’t want him

[The Sicatoka]

16 minutes ago, SIOUXELEVENS said:

Sitting in his basement wearing bulldog underwear yelling mom the meat loaf!

My mind's eye ... it just went blind!  Ga-a-a-a-h-h-h!!!

[stoneySIOUX]

22 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

Cause as stoney Sioux says we didn’t want him

in this situation, that would be correct lol.

You've gotten so predictable, GF. I miss the old GF that would keep people guessing.

You used to be such a wildcard! What happened to you?!?!

[The Sicatoka]

7 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

You used to be such a wildcard! What happened to you?!?!

 

43 minutes ago, SIOUXELEVENS said:

Sitting in his basement wearing bulldog underwear yelling mom the meat loaf!

He changed undapantz.  

... or he's showing his true colors. 

[Irish]

4 hours ago, Goon said:

No I don't. To play at UND you have to buy into the culture. If you listen to the players you don't hear the word "I" a lot. There's a reason for that. 

Yes, I like UND's culture - However Spicer is going to Duluth who has a great culture too - hard-nosed disciplined hockey from end to end and showing up strong at tournament time.  We'd do well to borrow a little bit of their culture at times.

[petey23]

2 minutes ago, Irish said:

Yes, I like UND's culture - However Spicer is going to Duluth who has a great culture too - hard-nosed disciplined hockey from end to end and showing up strong at tournament time.  We'd do well to borrow a little bit of their culture at times.

Can we let them keep the diving and flopping in Duluth?

Thank you now.

[The Sicatoka]

4 minutes ago, Irish said:

... a great culture too - hard-nosed disciplined hockey from end to end ... 

... and a Van Halen album ... 

[Kevin G]

Regarding Spicer, it seems like there are a bunch of factors that have converged to make his decision to leave UND especially impactful.

1. He's a hometown kid. Of course we want hometown kids to play for the hometown team. And when UND has already secured a commitment from that hometown kid, we expect him to ultimately play for UND. So when that kid decommits, of course it feels like something went wrong. So we conclude that someone messed up, that someone is at fault, and that someone should be blamed--the most likely candidates being either the player, the player's advisors, or the head coach. 

2. He was on the USNTDP team. Rightly or wrongly, there is an aura attached to players on this team, so losing a USNTDP recruit is especially bitter.

3. Losing Spicer--a potentially talented forward recruit--hurts especially much because UND's past few teams have lacked forwards with high-end scoring ability.

4. Losing Spicer--again, a potentially talented forward--feeds the narrative that Coach Berry can't recruit highly-skilled forwards, not even guys in his own backyard.

5. UND lost Spicer to a rival who has had more success recently (two national championships over the past five years and who beat us in the 5OT game).

6. Whether true or not, it looks like the coaching staff chose blue-collar players (like Senden and Hain) over a player whose ceiling is potentially higher.

7. We as fans have been very disappointed in the outcome of the past five seasons.

8. Finally, because the extra COVID year has distorted the normal flow of players into and out of the program, it looks like the coaching staff made the more comfortable decision to keep players they knew rather than making hard decisions and asking familiar players to leave in order to make room for younger players.

 

If a few of the above factors were absent, then Spicer's defection wouldn't be nearly the talker that it has been. In other words, maybe Spicer electing to leave is both disappointing and not quite as significant as it seems. Also, it seems like most of the mic-drop style comments ignore the complexity of building a roster--from the point of view of the coaching staff and of the recruit.

[Goon]

26 minutes ago, Kevin G said:

Regarding Spicer, it seems like there are a bunch of factors that have converged to make his decision to leave UND especially impactful.

I think that some are glossing over the value that Hain and Senden bring to the lineup. I think it's a no brainer to bring them back.  

Quote

After Hain suffered a season-ending injury against Cornell, UND lost an element to the team game they had prior to that series. Hain played on a shutdown line with Senden and Louis Jamernik. This line had the job of playing against other team’s top lines. Against Denver’s top line of Carter Savoie, Bobby Brink, and Cole Gutman, the Senden line held college hockey’s best forward line off of the score sheet. None of them got a single point all weekend long.

 

[Goon]

57 minutes ago, petey23 said:

Can we let them keep the diving and flopping in Duluth?

Thank you now.

Now that's funny.

 

1 hour ago, Irish said:

Yes, I like UND's culture - However Spicer is going to Duluth who has a great culture too - hard-nosed disciplined hockey from end to end and showing up strong at tournament time.  We'd do well to borrow a little bit of their culture at times.

One could argue that UND already has some of the same culture. Brad Berry and Scott Sandelin played on the same team from 1984-86. Both are UND guys. 

[Irish]

19 minutes ago, Goon said:

Now that's funny.

 

One could argue that UND already has some of the same culture. Brad Berry and Scott Sandelin played on the same team from 1984-86. Both are UND guys. 

True - but we really need to add tournament success back into our culture.

[SJHovey]

Seems to me that people should be happy we are in this situation, rather than angry.  Isn't it a good thing that we have two older, experienced captains coming back to try to win a title, have a bunch of talented recruits coming in, and thus aren't in a position where we are forced to bring in a kid early, out of juniors, and possibly before they are ready (like perhaps last off-season?)

[The Sicatoka]

5 minutes ago, SJHovey said:

Seems to me that people should be happy we are in this situation, rather than angry.  Isn't it a good thing that we have two older, experienced captains coming back to try to win a title, have a bunch of talented recruits coming in, and thus aren't in a position where we are forced to bring in a kid early, out of juniors, and possibly before they are ready (like perhaps last off-season?)

Quit. Making. Sense. 

But I do believe we'll have a late add this year as well ... 

[skateshattrick]

37 minutes ago, Irish said:

True - but we really need to add tournament success back into our culture.

Really? They lost in OT to BU in a game they dominated and had a goal disallowed because of a bad offsides call. They were the consensus No. 1 team in 2020 but were not allowed to prove it in the tourney because of Covid. The next year, they lost in 5 OTs to UMD. If they win, they very easily could have won the whole thing. This year, they overachieved, but still lost in OT to a good Notre Dame team that gave Mankato fits (and beat Michigan 4 times). That is the nature of the NCAA one and down tourney. Michigan had tons of blue chippers and didn't win. BU has had the same thing happen. Some people's expectations are unrealistic. 

[The Sicatoka]

DU had some grizzled, grind veterans and some young flash in 2021-22. Interesting combination ... 

[Irish]

46 minutes ago, skateshattrick said:

Really? They lost in OT to BU in a game they dominated and had a goal disallowed because of a bad offsides call. They were the consensus No. 1 team in 2020 but were not allowed to prove it in the tourney because of Covid. The next year, they lost in 5 OTs to UMD. If they win, they very easily could have won the whole thing. This year, they overachieved, but still lost in OT to a good Notre Dame team that gave Mankato fits (and beat Michigan 4 times). That is the nature of the NCAA one and down tourney. Michigan had tons of blue chippers and didn't win. BU has had the same thing happen. Some people's expectations are unrealistic. 

Wanting more than 1 regional win since 2016 is not unrealistic.

[The Sicatoka]

Think you got woes?

Boston College on line one ... 

2021-22 - did not qualify
2020-21 - lost in NCAA regional final (v SCSU) but never played regional semi because of Covid, so no win
2019-20 - (no tournament)
2018-19 - did not qualify
2017-18 - did not qualify
2016-17 - did not qualify
2015-16 - lost in NCAA semis (Frozen Four) to Q'piac in Tampa

Or Boston University on line two ... 

2021-22 - did not qualify
2020-21 - lost in NCAA regional semi game (v SCSU, see above)
2019-20 - (no tournament)
2018-19 - did not qualify
2017-18 - won regional semi (v Cornell), lost NCAA regional final (v Michigan),
2016-17 - won regional semi (v UND  ), lost NCAA regional final (v UMD)
2015-16 - lost NCAA regional semis (v DU) 

Full disclosure: North Dakota

2021-22 - lost NCAA regional semi OT v Notre Dame <-- probably will cause another rule book change
2020-21 - won regional semi (v AIC), lost NCAA regional final 5OT v UMD <-- game that caused a tourney structure change!
2019-20 - (no tournament)
2018-19 - did not qualify
2017-18 - did not quality
2016-17 - lost NCAA regional semi (v BU) <-- game caused a rule book change! 
2015-16 - "Tampa" -- National Champions 

[ChetSteadman]

9 hours ago, brianvf said:

I assumed it had more to do with what James was doing. When James scoring took off, he bumped ahead of Spicer and the coaches made the decision to bring in the more “ready” player. 
But I agree, it’ll be interesting to look back on this in a couple seasons to see if UND made the right call. 

 

9 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Player  Season    Team                                                              Lge    GP       G    A    Pts    PIM    +/-
James (turns 19 in Oct) 2021-22    Sioux City Musketeers    USHL    62    28   33   61    39   18
Spicer (turns 18 in June) 2021-22    U.S. NTD Program         USHL    26    10    6     16    10    5    

I know which I'm bringing in to the last slot. 

Lol, now do power play points and which lines each player played on.

[Irish]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Think you got woes?

Boston College on line one ... 

2021-22 - did not qualify
2020-21 - lost in NCAA regional final (v SCSU) but never played regional semi because of Covid, so no win
2019-20 - (no tournament)
2018-19 - did not qualify
2017-18 - did not qualify
2016-17 - did not qualify
2015-16 - lost in NCAA semis (Frozen Four) to Q'piac in Tampa

Or Boston University on line two ... 

2021-22 - did not qualify
2020-21 - lost in NCAA regional semi game (v SCSU, see above)
2019-20 - (no tournament)
2018-19 - did not qualify
2017-18 - won regional semi (v Cornell), lost NCAA regional final (v Michigan),
2016-17 - won regional semi (v UND  ), lost NCAA regional final (v UMD)
2015-16 - lost NCAA regional semis (v DU) 

Full disclosure: North Dakota

2021-22 - lost NCAA regional semi OT v Notre Dame <-- probably will cause another rule book change
2020-21 - won regional semi (v AIC), lost NCAA regional final 5OT v UMD <-- game that caused a tourney structure change!
2019-20 - (no tournament)
2018-19 - did not qualify
2017-18 - did not quality
2016-17 - lost NCAA regional semi (v BU) <-- game caused a rule book change! 
2015-16 - "Tampa" -- National Champions 

Minnesota Duluth

2021-22 - Lost in Regional Finals

2020-21 - Frozen Four

2019--20 - No Tournament

2018-19 - National Champions

2017-18 - National Champions

2016-17 - National Runner Up

2015-16 - Regional Final

[The Sicatoka]

UMD’s run is statistically, historically abnormal. They will return to the mean. 

[brianvf]

3 minutes ago, ChetSteadman said:

Lol, now do power play points and which lines each player played on.

Sounds cool, man! 

As I said, it'll be easy to revisit this at the end of this season and see how they compared, with both being freshmen in the NCHC.

[The Sicatoka]

8 minutes ago, ChetSteadman said:

Lol, now do power play points and which lines each player played on.

So you admit one was good enough to be top three of a USHL team and the other was a bottom six? And that’s before I mention “top three” guy’s USHL team had a substantially better record. 

Top three on a winner, or bottom six on a losing record? 

[gfhockey]

9 minutes ago, Irish said:

Minnesota Duluth

2021-22 - Lost in Regional Finals

2020-21 - Frozen Four

2019--20 - No Tournament

2018-19 - National Champions

2017-18 - National Champions

2016-17 - National Runner Up

2015-16 - Regional Final

Not a bad run at all

[ChetSteadman]

4 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

So you admit one was good enough to be top three of a USHL team and the other was a bottom six? 

Probably a little tougher to crack the top 6 on the NTDP team than Sioux City, but whatever.  Doesn’t bother me that Spicer moved on just thought it was odd to compare each others stat line.

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

24 minutes ago, Irish said:

Minnesota Duluth

2021-22 - Lost in Regional Finals

2020-21 - Frozen Four

2019--20 - No Tournament

2018-19 - National Champions

2017-18 - National Champions

2016-17 - National Runner Up

2015-16 - Regional Final