COMMITTED UND Recruits

[scpa0305]

12 hours ago, Wilbur said:

I don't think its outside reality for the local three who just verbaled to all make the USDT in the next few years.  I think if they all stay healthy they'll be good if not great college players. 

Absolutely.  They all are already on the NTDP radar. 

[petey23]

33 minutes ago, siouxforcefans said:

 

@Irish I think Rick's comment is more to the point that Benson & Lizzote are being brought up like they were gods and the only UND players mentioned in that conversation are guys some feel under perform - meaning they aren't brought up when we're talking about one of the Poolman brothers or Ladue.  St. C has had some elites recently (mostly former Force players that end up in LA), but they weren't "local" kids.  The locals they have pulled haven't been the 5 star variety at the time they committed.

Lizzotte was a walk on at St. Cloud I believe.

[Wilbur]

5 minutes ago, petey23 said:

Lizzotte was a walk on at St. Cloud I believe.

You are correct.  A very late addition but a great find for them. 

[Irish]

31 minutes ago, siouxforcefans said:

 

@Irish I think Rick's comment is more to the point that Benson & Lizzote are being brought up like they were gods and the only UND players mentioned in that conversation are guys some feel under perform - meaning they aren't brought up when we're talking about one of the Poolman brothers or Ladue.  St. C has had some elites recently (mostly former Force players that end up in LA), but they weren't "local" kids.  The locals they have pulled haven't been the 5 star variety at the time they committed.

I agree with your assessment - however, he mentioned that stats speak for themselves and I wanted to show another stat that should speak for itself - The fact that St. Cloud had 8 people scoring more than our top scorer should alarm Sioux fans regardless of how highly rated our recruiting classes are.  There is a serious disconnect somewhere that needs to be fixed.  If someone posted 4 years ago that this would be the case I think collectively we would move for a commitment to an institution.  Yet here we are. 

[tnt]

47 minutes ago, Irish said:

I agree with your assessment - however, he mentioned that stats speak for themselves and I wanted to show another stat that should speak for itself - The fact that St. Cloud had 8 people scoring more than our top scorer should alarm Sioux fans regardless of how highly rated our recruiting classes are.  There is a serious disconnect somewhere that needs to be fixed.  If someone posted 4 years ago that this would be the case I think collectively we would move for a commitment to an institution.  Yet here we are. 

If we are having this same conversation next year, then I think that will be a big problem, but I have a feeling if we do better,  you might be comparing us to another team next year then.  

[AJS]

I know some don't like how the college landscape has changed over the years with the young verbals, but as someone who really enjoys college hockey recruiting, I personally love it. I like watching a recruit develop, seeing how they progress from year to year. These three '04 players are a perfect example, see how the perform this summer at the US Development Camp, how they progress next year in high school, Ausmus and Spicer as Sophomores and Panzer as a Freshman. Then as others have said, potential NTDP Camp. It's fun to follow. 

[scpa0305]

4 hours ago, AJS said:

I know some don't like how the college landscape has changed over the years with the young verbals, but as someone who really enjoys college hockey recruiting, I personally love it. I like watching a recruit develop, seeing how they progress from year to year. These three '04 players are a perfect example, see how the perform this summer at the US Development Camp, how they progress next year in high school, Ausmus and Spicer as Sophomores and Panzer as a Freshman. Then as others have said, potential NTDP Camp. It's fun to follow. 

Agreed.  Some laugh but there are other teams with 04 commits.  That’s about as young as you should go however.

[tnt]

7 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

Agreed.  Some laugh but there are other teams with 04 commits.  That’s about as young as you should go however.

Don’t mind taking a flyer on some exceptional local talent that have a great work ethic and know what the program means. At the very least they can probably be role players and the scholarship depends on development.  I have more of an issue with getting a bunch of role players earlier than you need to when you don’t know how the young talent is going to pan out.  Then you have an overabundance of role players.  Don’t know if we get Harrison Blaisdell if we didn’t recruit him early, but who knows.  Hope Ethan Bowen benefits us for recruiting him early as well.

 

 

[siouxforce19]

40 minutes ago, tnt said:

Don’t mind taking a flyer on some exceptional local talent that have a great work ethic and know what the program means. At the very least they can probably be role players and the scholarship depends on development.  I have more of an issue with getting a bunch of role players earlier than you need to when you don’t know how the young talent is going to pan out.  Then you have an overabundance of role players.  Don’t know if we get Harrison Blaisdell if we didn’t recruit him early, but who knows.  Hope Ethan Bowen benefits us for recruiting him early as well.

 

 

Blaisdell committed early because of the WHL draft. He knew he wasn’t going that route so he committed before so the team’s knew his plans. The WHL draft probably has a something to do with some of the early recruiting we see. 

(Personally, I find it amusing when I see some WHL fan complain about college early recruiting when they have a Bantam Draft.) 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

Gaber scores twice for Dubuque tonight while Donovan continues to struggle in the USHL. Mitchell Mattson 2.0.

[yzerman19]

It takes a few games to adjust...Donovan's far from my boyfriend, but almost everyone needs an adjust from high school to USHL.

[stoneySIOUX]

On 4/4/2019 at 8:17 PM, Siouxlite said:

The stats speak for themselves, we are getting just as good hockey players as any other team in the nation as recruits. It comes down to taking a very talented player and being able to take that players ability to the next level and make a team that is able to succeed, not just 5 skaters on the ice. That seems to be the problem as of late in my opinion.

Again, our best players, as whole have been our defensemen and Sophs (Pooly, Guch, Kierstad and Mash when healthy). These guys now become the top of the classes and the team. Any expectation of top scoring from guys like Yon, Bowen, Johnson is and was nothing but unrealistic. 

Now, we look to have some high end scoring touch coming in. These kinds of players are the ones that should be ones we "judge" in terms of Bubbs' recruiting chops and development, IMO.

[stoneySIOUX]

On 4/4/2019 at 5:18 PM, Irish said:

Speaking of stats and facts - according to NCHC overall scoring stats, St. Cloud has 8 players (count em, 8) who had more points than our leading scorer.  So I do wonder where that silly idea started. 

And they are out in the first round and no longer have their top 5 (6? I can't remember) going into next season. The discussion was a perception of a lack of development, right? Also a discussion of local players and their impact? We're expecting top scoring from Yon, Bowen and Johnson? Our top scorers seem to be developing just fine, to me. 

[stoneySIOUX]

2 hours ago, yzerman19 said:

It takes a few games to adjust...Donovan's far from my boyfriend, but almost everyone needs an adjust from high school to USHL.

We were all very upset when he decommitted because some expected him to perform immediately at the college level as a true freshman. Seems like maybe Bubbs knew what he was doing when Donavon was told (from what we seem to know) that he needed another year of work. 

He didn't light it up in his senior year and is dropping in all scouting rankings. Definitely seems like he needed another year. 

Could he go to Wisconsin and prove me wrong? Absolutely. He's very talented. But, early on, looks like Bubbs was right. I wish him the best. I really do.

[scpa0305]

5 hours ago, yzerman19 said:

It takes a few games to adjust...Donovan's far from my boyfriend, but almost everyone needs an adjust from high school to USHL.

Agreed completely.

However I was one (prior to the decommit) who was definitely interested in what the plan was for him in 19-20 as he’s never done well in the big tourneys with team USA nor had he performed well in junior games.  The USHL is downright nasty however it isn’t as tough as college hockey.  So the fact he’s currently at 16 straight games without a point is telling.  Playing in the ushl next season should be the path for him. He hasn’t rushed development whatsoever, he shouldn’t start now.

[Sioux1988]

22 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

Agreed completely.

However I was one (prior to the decommit) who was definitely interested in what the plan was for him in 19-20 as he’s never done well in the big tourneys with team USA nor had he performed well in junior games.  The USHL is downright nasty however it isn’t as tough as college hockey.  So the fact he’s currently at 16 straight games without a point is telling.  Playing in the ushl next season should be the path for him. He hasn’t rushed development whatsoever, he shouldn’t start now.

Exactly what I was thinking. He has never scored outside of Minnesota high school hockey statisically speaking. That's why I'm higher on the recruits we have coming in. Not saying he won't be good in the future but he probably won't produce until his late sophomore or early junior year. That seems to be the opposite of what we need and would end support for him based on our fan base me included. I haven't given up on guys like Adams but I expected much more.

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

6 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I wish him the best. I really do.

Exactly, the hard feelings are reserved for his HS coach. Someone here or on Twitter shared a video a little before he decommitted where he compared himself to Bjugstad and Tufte. He didn't think of those examples on his own. 

[jk]

I don't know how good a player he will eventually be, but he is one heck of a skater.  Good luck except against UND.  

[90siouxfan]

1 hour ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

Exactly, the hard feelings are reserved for his HS coach. Someone here or on Twitter shared a video a little before he decommitted where he compared himself to Bjugstad and Tufte. He didn't think of those examples on his own. 

Tufte is not even listed in the Hockey News top 100 prospects, several team mates are though.  

[fsioux]

1 hour ago, 90siouxfan said:

Tufte is not even listed in the Hockey News top 100 prospects, several team mates are though.  

Talk about a player that has not developed.  I was more impressed with him as a freshman than I am now.  He looks to be regressing.

[tnt]

6 hours ago, scpa0305 said:

Agreed completely.

However I was one (prior to the decommit) who was definitely interested in what the plan was for him in 19-20 as he’s never done well in the big tourneys with team USA nor had he performed well in junior games.  The USHL is downright nasty however it isn’t as tough as college hockey.  So the fact he’s currently at 16 straight games without a point is telling.  Playing in the ushl next season should be the path for him. He hasn’t rushed development whatsoever, he shouldn’t start now.

That’s so true, why rush it, if that is indeed the reason he chose to go elsewhere.  In contrast to Donovan’s zero points in 16 games, Bryce Brodzinski has 16 in 16.  Doesn’t mean Donovan won’t end up better, but if he rushes it and loses his confidence, was not waiting a year worth it in the long run?

[AJS]

Pinto has really been consistent this year, 8 goals in his past 8 games (only one two goal game). Current stat line is 28 goals 28 assists 56 points in 53 games (13th in the USHL). Held off the score sheet 14 times this year. 

[scpa0305]

On 4/6/2019 at 11:24 AM, fsioux said:

Talk about a player that has not developed.  I was more impressed with him as a freshman than I am now.  He looks to be regressing.

Yeah, that one is odd.  18 in 40 as a junior on a very good team.....not great.  Significant drop off from last year.

[TheFlop]

On 4/6/2019 at 1:58 AM, stoneySIOUX said:

And they are out in the first round and no longer have their top 5 (6? I can't remember) going into next season. The discussion was a perception of a lack of development, right? Also a discussion of local players and their impact? We're expecting top scoring from Yon, Bowen and Johnson? Our top scorers seem to be developing just fine, to me. 

So just making the tournament every year isn't good enough?

I think the point made with Lizotte and Benson is that they were nice players in high school but not high end recruits.  St Cloud took two non-descript ND players and made them into solid 4 year contributors.  If St Cloud can do that, then UND should be able to take their higher end recruits and have them produce even more, but that hasn't happened lately.

[stoneySIOUX]

4 hours ago, TheFlop said:

So just making the tournament every year isn't good enough?

I think the point made with Lizotte and Benson is that they were nice players in high school but not high end recruits.  St Cloud took two non-descript ND players and made them into solid 4 year contributors.  If St Cloud can do that, then UND should be able to take their higher end recruits and have them produce even more, but that hasn't happened lately.

Who's your example that that hasn't happened yet? Other than Mismash, who's been injured for large chunks and is only a junior this year, who would you say is higher end? 

JBD and Johnny are the two high enders and both had very good years. Gooch is our leading scorer. Scheel? Would have been an all league player had he not gotten injured. 

I don't understand.