North Dakota Roughriders?

[Fetch]

And I didnt attend the University of Robert Otis Kelley. I'd take Teddy Roosevelt well before most figures because he was forward thinking progressive, but still conservative and a conservationist before his time. A Bull Moose.

Where were you when the nickname was under attack? I sent out freedom of information requests to all the Slummit and Big Sky Presidents. There was no email discussion of the nickname at all, except by a few concerned fans. The whole Sioux nickname situation was rigged from top, beginning with Dalrymple and Stenehjam and carried out nefariously by Kelley. Kelley did not once implore the NCAA to change their stance and was effectively a double agent, while people assumed he would back the majority. The SBOHE was either total doofuses or were in on the ploy. Slummit League Commissioner Douple admitted that UND and ND wanted the name to go away, but he was slammed by the Herald, Forum, and Kelley for stating the truth. Bresciani attempted to get revenge on behalf of the SBoHE on him in retaliation. Bresciani had emails on the situations, but deleted them as the whole situation would cause the whole SBoHE and Stenehjem and Dalrymple to come crashing down as a blatant ruse with disregard for honesty. The state will have no part in retrieving those emails, and fired the women attorney who attempted to do so. But where were you when I stated these as issues? Mostly just got attacked here.

Kelley et al will eventually pay for their deceptions. So will Standing Rocks past leadership. Lord knows the people of Standing Rock have suffered enough. But in the meantime, UND is in a crisis and needs a new name and new leadership.

Good stuff I hope at the least most of this gets told

[Fetch]

https://m.facebook.com/thesiouxweresilenced

[Siouxphan27]

And I didnt attend the University of Robert Otis Kelley. I'd take Teddy Roosevelt well before most figures because he was forward thinking progressive, but still conservative and a conservationist before his time. A Bull Moose.

Where were you when the nickname was under attack? I sent out freedom of information requests to all the Slummit and Big Sky Presidents. There was no email discussion of the nickname at all, except by a few concerned fans. The whole Sioux nickname situation was rigged from top, beginning with Dalrymple and Stenehjam and carried out nefariously by Kelley. Kelley did not once implore the NCAA to change their stance and was effectively a double agent, while people assumed he would back the majority. The SBOHE was either total doofuses or were in on the ploy. Slummit League Commissioner Douple admitted that UND and ND wanted the name to go away, but he was slammed by the Herald, Forum, and Kelley for stating the truth. Bresciani attempted to get revenge on behalf of the SBoHE on him in retaliation. Bresciani had emails on the situations, but deleted them as the whole situation would cause the whole SBoHE and Stenehjem and Dalrymple to come crashing down as a blatant ruse with disregard for honesty. The state will have no part in retrieving those emails, and fired the women attorney who attempted to do so. But where were you when I stated these as issues? Mostly just got attacked here.

Kelley et al will eventually pay for their deceptions. So will Standing Rocks past leadership. Lord knows the people of Standing Rock have suffered enough. But in the meantime, UND is in a crisis and needs a new name and new leadership.

 

Nice post. 

 

Where was I?   I didn't post here then.  Thanks for your efforts.

[The Sicatoka]

UND is in a crisis and needs a new name and new leadership.

Agree. The way it looks we'll be getting a new name and new leadership.

And this war has been fought in small skirmishes for a long time, since the 1960s. The 2000 arena episode with Ralph and the SBoHE should have been definitive. I guess it was; it got the NCAA (I suspect Dr. Saigo, president at SCSU, behind some of it) to get involved in 2005.

Once this no longer was an "in house" battle (just North Dakota entities) the war was lost.

If all you know is from the 2012 settlement agreement on, you're way behind.

[darell1976]

Agree. The way it looks we'll be getting a new name and new leadership.

And this war has been fought in small skirmishes for a long time, since the 1960s. The 2000 arena episode with Ralph and the SBoHE should have been definitive. I guess it was; it got the NCAA (I suspect Dr. Saigo, president at SCSU, behind some of it) to get involved in 2005.

Once this no longer was an "in house" battle (just North Dakota entities) the war was lost.

If all you know is from the 2012 settlement agreement on, you're way behind.

New name, new leadership, it will be a breath of fresh air without any distractions and we can all concentrate on the things about the university besides a nickname. We lost the fight, get a new name and move on.

[scpa0305]

You said the only thing that matters is winning.

So winning, tradition and identity are important. Really no different than a player.

No, fs4l had mentioned that we were lagging behind the other Dakota schools because of the fact we had no nickname, my point was that we may be lacking because we weren't winning at the same rate. That has nothing to do with the nickname.

[fightingsioux4life]

No, fs4l had mentioned that we were lagging behind the other Dakota schools because of the fact we had no nickname, my point was that we may be lacking because we weren't winning at the same rate. That has nothing to do with the nickname.

You did not understand the point I was trying to make.  If we don't select a new name and logo now, this issue will come back over and over again until we do.  That is a needless distraction that will suck the energy out of the institution as a whole and make us look incompetent and indecisive.  That is not good for the overall image of UND and in today's media-obsessed culture, perception = reality.  The sooner a new name is chosen and implemented, the better.

[obborg]

People in 1930 knew the Roughriders were a Cavalry that originated in Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona, and New Mexico.   They also knew that an attempt to raise a Roughriders division in World War I, failed.  Roughriders would have never been considered by those folks as being something related to North Dakota.

 

Fast forward just 80 years, and  after a couple decades of people "learning" their ND "history" from "Legendary" ND Tourism commercials, and suddenly we're all "Bully" for Roughriders.   it would be funny if it wasn't so sad. 

 

Yeah, what he said.

[CMSioux]

This is being given way too much thought - it's a nickname. There are no wolverines in Michigan for example - not sure how USC and Trojans are related, there are plenty of high schools that have the same nickname as a nearby college.

 

Also to say that UND is in crisis (because it is changing its nickname) is overreaching. In the big picture it's less than 1% of what UND is all about and what is important for a Flagship University with a Law School and Medical School. A majority of those attending UND really don't care about the nickname. Funding from alumni is doing just fine. UND is building the largest indoor practice facility in the Midwest yet we are "lagging" other regional schools? There are plenty more examples.

 

Mountain meet mole hill. 

[scpa0305]

You did not understand the point I was trying to make. If we don't select a new name and logo now, this issue will come back over and over again until we do. That is a needless distraction that will suck the energy out of the institution as a whole and make us look incompetent and indecisive. That is not good for the overall image of UND and in today's media-obsessed culture, perception = reality. The sooner a new name is chosen and implemented, the better.

Again I don't believe the nickname has anything to do with the success on the field.

[UNDColorado]

All I would like to add to this drawn out debate is that Hazen high School is the Bison. That said, I don't pay too much attention to those who don't like Roughriders because RRHS already uses the name.

[darell1976]

All I would like to add to this drawn out debate is that Hazen high School is the Bison. That said, I don't pay too much attention to those who don't like Roughriders because RRHS already uses the name.

NDSU was renamed the Bison in 1919....Hazen High School was established in 1885, however it doesn't say if Hazen was known as the Bison prior to 1919 but its possible.

[Siouxperfan7]

People are all up in arms about the potential of Roughriders being selected as the new nickname for UND.  I get it.  It's not as good as Fighting Sioux.  And, maybe others that have been thrown out were better as well (Nokota, Explorers, Roughnecks, Reapers, etc).  Sure, 6 months ago, Roughriders was not at the top of everyones list.  There were many other options that people were backing.  But now that we are left with the final 7, there are many of us that believe that this is the best possible name remaining.  The new nickname will be one of these seven names.  If someone can make an argument for any of the other names and why it is better than Roughriders, at this point, than I am all ears. 

[jdub27]

Again I don't believe the nickname has anything to do with the success on the field.

 

It is continuously used against UND on the recruiting trail.  Whether what opposing coaches are telling recruits is true or not doesn't matter, what matters is it is another way to put doubt in recruits mind that there could be some sort of instability or future consequences down the road. This was especially true when UND didn't have a conference and was looking for one or were facing possible sanctions, but have continued on because the matter isn't settled.  It will continue to be so until the nickname issue is put to bed.  Choosing "no nickname" doesn't do this.

[The Sicatoka]

https://m.facebook.com/thesiouxweresilenced

Eunice and her crew just saw Kupchella's 2006 letter to the NCAA? And I thought some of the folks here were behind the information curve.

I remember that letter when it first was released ... in 2006. I remember it because of that second paragraph where Kupchella calls them out for what they are.

[Siouxperdouper]

Is Hazen in Fargo?

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

It is continuously used against UND on the recruiting trail. 

 

Source? This is ridiculously inflammatory and so easy to say, but damn near impossible to prove.  In fact, a few months ago I called out someone else for making the same naked allegation on another thread and the only response put forth in defense was:

 

Coaches have said so in the past.

[UND1983]

Source? This is ridiculously inflammatory and so easy to say, but damn near impossible to prove.  In fact, a few months ago I called out someone else for making the same naked allegation on another thread and the only response put forth in defense was:

 

 

What you want, an article?  People can only relay what the actual coaching staff has told them.  

[darell1976]

Source? This is ridiculously inflammatory and so easy to say, but damn near impossible to prove.  In fact, a few months ago I called out someone else for making the same naked allegation on another thread and the only response put forth in defense was:

Call up Dale Lennon and tell him to prove it.

 

http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/former-sioux-football-coach-dale-lennon-says-und-losing-recruits-already

 

In a letter to the Herald, Lennon writes that he has first-hand evidence that the ongoing controversy "is hurting (UND's) athletic programs in recruiting," and that "any future NCAA sanctions could be disastrous to the completion of the Division I transition."

 

In a telephone interview today, Lennon said, "I recruit against North Dakota from time to time and come across some of the same athletes. I have an opportunity to visit with them about the choices they make."

Those recruits "are primarily from the Chicago area," he said. "I always ask the recruits what schools they're looking at and which ones they're strongly considering. I ask if there's some reason they're not considering North Dakota.

 

"Sometimes it's distance, but sometimes it's, 'Well, coach, UND has a lot of issues with sanctions.' "

 

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

What you want, an article?  People can only relay what the actual coaching staff has told them.  

 

Context is critical here.  The word "continuously" implies that it is ongoing.  OP says it as if it's gospel truth, but it's now been thrown out there at least twice without any substantiation whatsoever.  The only person who came to OP's defense in April said explicitly that it was "in the past."

 

At what point(s) in the nickname controversy and/or transition process did the alleged use(s) occur?  Fair question.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

Call up Dale Lennon and tell him to prove it.

 

http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/former-sioux-football-coach-dale-lennon-says-und-losing-recruits-already

 

And how, exactly, is a February 2012 news article evidence of "continuous" use?

[UND1983]

Context is critical here.  The word "continuously" implies that it is ongoing.  OP says it as if it's gospel truth, but it's now been thrown out there at least twice without any substantiation whatsoever.  The only person who came to OP's defense in April said explicitly that it was "in the past."

 

At what point(s) in the nickname controversy and/or transition process did the alleged use(s) occur?  Fair question.

 

2007-2012.  Once the Big Sky move was named it stopped alot of it.  UND had the double whammy going against them with no conference and NCAA sanctions being levied if they didn't get approval from tribes.  It was bad around 2010-2012.  Local teams did whatever they could to "remind" recruits about all the issues up in Grand Forks.

 

I don't think the name issue comes up anymore since the NCAA backed off.  

[darell1976]

And how, exactly, is a February 2012 news article evidence of "continuous" use?

Dave Hakstol:

 

http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205380595

 

Hakstol said that continued usage of the nickname and logo would create "insurmountable challenges" for the UND athletics department and its student-athletes.

 

[The Sicatoka]

To believe that UND's nickname status is not used against it by opponents (everywhere from the recruiting trail to the playing surface) is naivety writ epic.

Admit it: If the tables were turned, you'd use it.

[UNDColorado]

Is Hazen in Fargo?

 

Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? 

 

I would say you had a point if they competed at the same level, but they don't.