Some Thoughts on UND's FB Program

[UND-FB-FAN]

The athletics priorities in GF and at UND are messed up. Been that way for a couple decades, at least. Culture change any other direction will take another couple decades. 

[Frozen4sioux]

On 4/5/2023 at 12:31 PM, Walsh Hall said:

Charitable gaming should be a high priority.  With the massive increase of proceeds from “electronic pull tabs” that’s a big miss.  Many charities are purchasing liquor establishment just to “lock down” the gambling $.

I believe the current cases the AGs office is involved in will have some major shifts on how the entire landscape of charitable gaming in ND operates going forward.

I would be willing to bet you won't see alot of changes or moves made until after the dust settles.

Some big knockers are under the microscope right now.

[Frozen4sioux]

On 4/7/2023 at 6:23 PM, UND-FB-FAN said:

The athletics priorities in GF and at UND are messed up. Been that way for a couple decades, at least. Culture change any other direction will take another couple decades. 

In what way?

Would love to hear this pontification....

[nodak651]

On 4/7/2023 at 8:35 AM, forksandspoons said:

This is a bummer and I would love to know who dropped the ball and why. Not expecting you to tell us, I just can’t believe someone would let any sort of grass roots fundraising effort slip away. Do you have any ideas for work arounds that this group could use to contribute in a similar way as LHB? 

https://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/31528-lets-help-bubba-hpc2/?do=findComment&comment=1236872

[Mama Sue]

2 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

I believe the current cases the AGs office is involved in will have some major shifts on how the entire landscape of charitable gaming in ND operates going forward.

I would be willing to bet you won't see alot of changes or moves made until after the dust settles.

Some big knockers are under the microscope right now.

Big knockers?  Like from Young Frankenstein? Or other knockers?

I would not change any beer label with this topic….just my opinion.

Say, do we sell Bud beer at the Alerus?

[UND Fan]

I posted the below message a couple of months ago.  Since then, I have heard from quite a few of you, some wondering if health problems might be prompting me to pull back on my ss.com, Wiki updates, Let's Help Bubba, etc. activity.   I appreciate the concern and am pleased to say that health is not the issue.  As stated, I am tired of the constant arguments and smart-ass posts on ss.com.  But a bigger reason is my concern about UND's athletic fundraising, especially the Champion's Club.  The upcoming facility improvements will help recruiting and player retention but, until we have the money to truly compete with our competition, we will not be able to consistently challenge for championships in non-hockey sports. 

I am going to contact Armacast, Zink, Chaves, etc. with examples of my concerns.  Other ss.com members have indicated that they weren't contacted to continue CC membership and others have indicated that they had expressed interest in CC or other athletic fundraising efforts but did not hear back from UND.  If any of you can provide me (either on this thread or by PM) with specific examples, it would be appreciated.  Please don't exaggerate your example.  I will not use any names in my discussions with the UND brass.   

I live far from ND and have one generic question about CC membership efforts.  There are obviously many businesses (inside and outside of GF) who are CC members, many at higher levels.  That is great but are we actively encouraging the owners and upper management of these businesses to be CC members?  I get the impression that many of these individuals feel that their companies' involvement means that they do not need to individually become CC members.  These folks are likely quite well-off and/or are well-paid.  I am not implying that these folks don't care about UND's athletics needs.  I just don't think they understand how much the need is and, if enlightened, many would become CC members, some at higher levels.

Heck, I guess another question is: do we know if anyone from UND is actively knocking on doors soliciting CC memberships.

The bottom line is that CC does not come close to providing enough $ to cover all UND's scholarship costs on an annual basis.  And UND seems satisfied/proud to raise about the same amount of $ every year even though tuition increases every year let alone helping with the ever-increasing costs of running a DI program.

One other item - I have been asked about future Let's Help Bubba campaigns.  My involvement in LHB efforts (and other personal contributions) will be dependent on the result of my discussions with UND management.

On 3/31/2023 at 4:22 PM, UND Fan said:

I was one of the first ss.com members – joining almost 21 years ago.  I won’t be on the site much going forward but will give some thoughts regarding UND football on a few topics first.  I will try not to make this too long and I have no interest in debating my thoughts with anyone.

Recruiting

I have followed our recruiting efforts for many years and was the guy doing the Wiki updates for the last 10 years or so until turning the job over to Hardcore Hawk (who is doing a good job) last year.  During that time frame, I followed thousands of potential recruits during the recruiting process.  This included kids who attended our camps, prospects we offered or were offered by other conference schools, prospects listed in recruiting websites (247 Sports, etc.), kids whose dads played for us, etc.  I have followed these prospects during the recruiting process via their social media as well as other teams’ fan websites.

Our recruiting classes of the last 15 years or so have not been great.  If you look at the limited number of:  signees we get that other top teams wanted, players contributing as true freshmen, players making all-conference teams, UND players in the NFL (or even getting good looks), etc.  We are getting lots of kids without any, or very few, FCS offers.  These are good, hard-working kids with some talent but turn out to be average-to-very good FCS players.  This needs to change - we need more high-end FSC level recruits before we can expect to be truly competitive year in and year out.

There has been a lot of talk about UND’s location (geography and weather) with many saying that it doesn’t have any negative effect on recruiting.  Those who think that location isn’t an issue are very much mistaken!  Most kids want to play somewhere that their parents, grandparents and/or girlfriends can attend most games.  Although it is improving, the number of talented prospects from ND and NW Minnesota is limited.  When you are recruiting kids from Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, etc., there are so many other FCS schools much closer than we are – including all the Dakota teams.  The two SUs are getting most of the kids they really want.  It’s not just NDSU we have to worry about now, SDSU has been winning just as many battles as NDSU (geography is helping them with some kids).  I would like to see us recruit the Winnipeg market (heck, all of Canada) harder.

Facilities are improving but are not there yet.  If you had ever seen the offices and locker room under Memorial, they were worse than you can imagine.  It was surprising any talented kids chose UND back then.  In a couple of years, we should have facilities equal to (maybe better) than the other Dakota schools.  That will help a great deal but there is still the distance issue.

I will talk about NDSU a little later but, as the Fargo/West Fargo metro area continues to prosper and grow, the number of talented FB players in this market will continue to grow.  We need to get a decent share of those kids.  If SU lands the lion’s share, it will be easier for their dominance over UND to continue.

Bubba    

Bubba and I are pretty good friends but I truly don’t have a great handle on his ability to lead us to the point where we consistently challenge for conference and national championships.  I certainly have disagreed with some of his decisions at critical times in important games over the last 2-3 years.   However, based on our inability to land many top-notch prospects, Bubba might be doing a hell of a job!

Athletic Department Funding      

Funding remains a major issue.  At this point, we are unable to pay our coaches competitively nor are we able to provide many of the “bells & whistles” for players provided by other programs. 

The latter is one of the reasons I organized seven “Let’s Help Bubba” campaigns over the last few years.  We raised $60,000+ for first class knee braces, Guardian helmet caps, computer equipment for breaking down film, quality cold-weather jackets for outside games, etc.

I offered to run a LHB8 last fall.  I was not pleased when it did not happen.  It was not anyone in the FB program who dropped the ball.  I will leave it at that!

I won’t get into details but I have some real concerns about our athletic fund-raising efforts especially related to the Champions Club. 

It makes common sense that averaging attendance of 10,000+ will create more revenue and a better game day experience – this needs to happen soon.  We all agree that winning and a positive fan experience at the Alerus will have a positive effect on attendance.

Lastly, on the topic of money, many have stated that the Engelstads only care about hockey.  I have wanted to post this for a few years but understood it was not to be made public.  Just recently, it did become public - Kris Engelstad has written a check paying for all FB players' summer school tuition for many years.  That is not a small check as most FB players are taking classes during the summer.     

NDSU

I attended UND when the rivalry was much more intense than it is today.  I dislike the Bison as much as (probably more than) any other ss.com member.  That said, it is ludicrous to continuously put down their FB program as well as the rest of their athletic department.  Now that their womens BB team as back to being good, SU is very competitive in every sport.  That certainly can’t be said for UND.  Their expectations are to be successful and nothing else is acceptable.  They do what is necessary to remain successful!

Team Makers fundraising efforts pay for 100% of all athletic scholarships at SU every year.  The Champions Club funds less than one-half of UND scholarship needs.  Just think about what UND Athletics could do with an extra $2+ million every year.

SS.com

The constant bantering back and forth is getting real old and is one of the reasons I won’t be visiting the site much going forward.  Too often, neither party knows what they were talking about in these “infantile” discussions.  My recommendation – if iramurphy posts a comment (FB or otherwise), you can be confident that it is factual.  He has the most knowledge and experience of UND athletics (and athletics in general) of any active ss.com member.

Lastly, if you aren’t supporting UND athletics financially as best as you can through Champions Club membership or one of the other funding programs, don’t bitch about our coaching salaries, our bidding for home playoff games, etc.

 

Reviewing the above, it probably came across a bit too negative.  I think the program continues to make progress.   Hopefully, we will soon be able to seriously compete for league championships and first round playoff spots annually.   The new facilities should help a great deal!

You will see me posting once in a while but, guys – please grow up and stay away from the juvenile discussions.  Some prospective recruits (and often their parents) check out a school’s fan websites.  Anyone reading ours would not be impressed.  I fully realize that a lot of this is common on fan websites but that doesn't mean we need to follow their lead!

 

[Benny Baker]

On 4/21/2023 at 9:38 AM, Frozen4sioux said:

I believe the current cases the AGs office is involved in will have some major shifts on how the entire landscape of charitable gaming in ND operates going forward.

I would be willing to bet you won't see alot of changes or moves made until after the dust settles.

Some big knockers are under the microscope right now.

BHB still under the microscope?  It’s embarrassing to see how much charitable money they raise that goes towards perhaps members’ pet projects instead of hockey.

[Mama Sue]

On 6/10/2023 at 4:25 PM, UND Fan said:

I posted the below message a couple of months ago.  Since then, I have heard from quite a few of you, some wondering if health problems might be prompting me to pull back on my ss.com, Wiki updates, Let's Help Bubba, etc. activity.   I appreciate the concern and am pleased to say that health is not the issue.  As stated, I am tired of the constant arguments and smart-ass posts on ss.com.  But a bigger reason is my concern about UND's athletic fundraising, especially the Champion's Club.  The upcoming facility improvements will help recruiting and player retention but, until we have the money to truly compete with our competition, we will not be able to consistently challenge for championships in non-hockey sports. 

I am going to contact Armacast, Zink, Chaves, etc. with examples of my concerns.  Other ss.com members have indicated that they weren't contacted to continue CC membership and others have indicated that they had expressed interest in CC or other athletic fundraising efforts but did not hear back from UND.  If any of you can provide me (either on this thread or by PM) with specific examples, it would be appreciated.  Please don't exaggerate your example.  I will not use any names in my discussions with the UND brass.   

I live far from ND and have one generic question about CC membership efforts.  There are obviously many businesses (inside and outside of GF) who are CC members, many at higher levels.  That is great but are we actively encouraging the owners and upper management of these businesses to be CC members?  I get the impression that many of these individuals feel that their companies' involvement means that they do not need to individually become CC members.  These folks are likely quite well-off and/or are well-paid.  I am not implying that these folks don't care about UND's athletics needs.  I just don't think they understand how much the need is and, if enlightened, many would become CC members, some at higher levels.

Heck, I guess another question is: do we know if anyone from UND is actively knocking on doors soliciting CC memberships.

The bottom line is that CC does not come close to providing enough $ to cover all UND's scholarship costs on an annual basis.  And UND seems satisfied/proud to raise about the same amount of $ every year even though tuition increases every year let alone helping with the ever-increasing costs of running a DI program.

One other item - I have been asked about future Let's Help Bubba campaigns.  My involvement in LHB efforts (and other personal contributions) will be dependent on the result of my discussions with UND management.

 

Also please ask what UND is doing with the Name Image Likeness funding…the 5 Ws

who, what, when, where, and why

 

[SiouxForever]

A new nickname and logo is an idea to bring in more revenue. 

[gundy1124]

Solution to most issues-

NIL Collective

I want to win yesterday.  Giving to a specific player could be an immediate impact.(Like maybe drop $20K to the Wisconsin RB that went to the Cats)  NIL Collective helps-

1. Recruiting and talent - yep (take the Jacks/Bison roster, switch a few star players with UND and everything changes)  I am saying we are 4-5 high level players away most seasons.

2. Bubba - yep (coaches look smarter with better players)

3. Athletic Department Funding - Create the wins and the funding will come

We should focus on the NIL paying for players 1st and the rest will follow.  I have given my 2 cents to the athletic department and FB staff.  There is some communication challenges but nobody really follows them.  (like how does the Collective know what player to target/pay without someone telling them)  Show me a squeaky clean Title 9 and no NIL school and most times I'll show you a perennial .500 program.

[UNDBIZ]

43 minutes ago, gundy1124 said:

Solution to most issues-

NIL Collective

I want to win yesterday.  Giving to a specific player could be an immediate impact.(Like maybe drop $20K to the Wisconsin RB that went to the Cats)  NIL Collective helps-

1. Recruiting and talent - yep (take the Jacks/Bison roster, switch a few star players with UND and everything changes)  I am saying we are 4-5 high level players away most seasons.

2. Bubba - yep (coaches look smarter with better players)

3. Athletic Department Funding - Create the wins and the funding will come

We should focus on the NIL paying for players 1st and the rest will follow.  I have given my 2 cents to the athletic department and FB staff.  There is some communication challenges but nobody really follows them.  (like how does the Collective know what player to target/pay without someone telling them)  Show me a squeaky clean Title 9 and no NIL school and most times I'll show you a perennial .500 program.

Concerns re: locker room issues stemming from money being directed only to certain players?

[Walsh Hall]

1 hour ago, gundy1124 said:

Solution to most issues-

NIL Collective

I want to win yesterday.  Giving to a specific player could be an immediate impact.(Like maybe drop $20K to the Wisconsin RB that went to the Cats)  NIL Collective helps-

1. Recruiting and talent - yep (take the Jacks/Bison roster, switch a few star players with UND and everything changes)  I am saying we are 4-5 high level players away most seasons.

2. Bubba - yep (coaches look smarter with better players)

3. Athletic Department Funding - Create the wins and the funding will come

We should focus on the NIL paying for players 1st and the rest will follow.  I have given my 2 cents to the athletic department and FB staff.  There is some communication challenges but nobody really follows them.  (like how does the Collective know what player to target/pay without someone telling them)  Show me a squeaky clean Title 9 and no NIL school and most times I'll show you a perennial .500 program.

Do many FCS programs have a NIL program?  What would a successful NIL collective look like for a FCS team?  I'm having a hard time visualizing what/who would be specifically targeted which would materially help the team.   For a FBS team it's pretty straight-forward, but for a FCS program it would need to be dramatically different.  It seems to me the effort would need to be targeted, not some blanket payment to a specific position group, but what players could be reasonable targeted and persuaded by a FCS NIL deal?

[nodak651]

If you guys are going to talk about NIL programs, it's helpful to clarify whether you are speaking about NIL "Collectives" or legit NIL programs, where players are compensated for their actual name image and likeness (such as merch sales or participation in advertisements).  Some NIL programs are essentially pay for play and others are more geared towards finding student athletes legit NIL deals with local companies.  There's a lot of grey area, obviously, but I think it's more accurate to say collectives rather than just NIL, if that's what you mean, because schools can legitimately work with companies like Opendorse or Brandr group to start NIL programs, whereas they can't be involved with collectives.

[geaux_sioux]

2 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

Concerns re: locker room issues stemming from money being directed only to certain players?

Not if we’re winning.

[gundy1124]

50 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

If you guys are going to talk about NIL programs, it's helpful to clarify whether you are speaking about NIL "Collectives" or legit NIL programs, where players are compensated for their actual name image and likeness (such as merch sales or participation in advertisements).  Some NIL programs are essentially pay for play and others are more geared towards finding student athletes legit NIL deals with local companies.  There's a lot of grey area, obviously, but I think it's more accurate to say collectives rather than just NIL, if that's what you mean, because schools can legitimately work with companies like Opendorse or Brandr group to start NIL programs, whereas they can't be involved with collectives.

Just pay to play which is legit isn't it??  

In 30 seconds of thought this off season we should have targeted the portal for a RB, Safety, D-Line, LB.  Pick your top 3 for each.  Offer $20,000 to your number 1 target at each position, give them 10 days, move onto the next after 10 days and so on.

For incoming recruiting, take your top 20 prospects and throw $10,000 in top of each offer, take as many as you can get. (maybe you get 5 of these that you wouldn't get without)

Rough budget of $120,000 to pretty much instantly make the program better (in theory).  Stack W's then everything will fall in place.  This process is so simple in my mind, but takes some balls to just call it what it is......paying for top players.

[gundy1124]

2 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

Concerns re: locker room issues stemming from money being directed only to certain players?

Nicer locker room vrs top safety to start next season........I am writing a check for one and making excuses for the other.

[nodak651]

6 minutes ago, gundy1124 said:

Just pay to play which is legit isn't it??  

In 30 seconds of thought this off season we should have targeted the portal for a RB, Safety, D-Line, LB.  Pick your top 3 for each.  Offer $20,000 to your number 1 target at each position, give them 10 days, move onto the next after 10 days and so on.

For incoming recruiting, take your top 20 prospects and throw $10,000 in top of each offer, take as many as you can get. (maybe you get 5 of these that you wouldn't get without)

Rough budget of $120,000 to pretty much instantly make the program better (in theory).  Stack W's then everything will fall in place.  This process is so simple in my mind, but takes some balls to just call it what it is......paying for top players.

Yeah I was just saying in general, because a lot of people just say NIL when they are referring to NIL Collectives, specifically.  Interestingly, UND missed on transfer RB recruits who commited to Youngstown and Montana State, both of which have NIL Collectives.  I'm not sure how much of a factor they played into the player's decisions though (don't know if they were offered $$).

[gundy1124]

1 hour ago, Walsh Hall said:

Do many FCS programs have a NIL program?  What would a successful NIL collective look like for a FCS team?  I'm having a hard time visualizing what/who would be specifically targeted which would materially help the team.   For a FBS team it's pretty straight-forward, but for a FCS program it would need to be dramatically different.  It seems to me the effort would need to be targeted, not some blanket payment to a specific position group, but what players could be reasonable targeted and persuaded by a FCS NIL deal?

Other FCS teams are doing Collectives.  I think stories like Theilen going to Mankato for $500.00 is telling.  A couple grand goes a long ways to a kid that has $50.00 in his checking account.

[gundy1124]

1 minute ago, nodak651 said:

Yeah I was just saying in general, because a lot of people just say NIL when they are referring to NIL Collectives, specifically.  Interestingly, UND missed on transfer RB recruits who commited to Youngstown and Montana State, both of which have a NIL Collectives.  I'm not sure how much of a factor they played into the player's decisions though (don't know if they were offered $$).

Frustrating........

Just assuming these players did receive bonus funds.

[nodak651]

One other thing to mention is that the NCAA changed a rule and schools are now allowed to provide about 6K in additional payments, above and beyond schollarship and cost of attendance costs..  https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33684066/only-21-130-ncaa-fbs-level-schools-say-plans-provide-allowed-academic-bonus-payments-athletes-year

UND might be working on this with something called The 701 fund?  This would essentially allow the school to pay key players directly if they get good grades, but I'm not sure if they are allowed to pick and choose if certain players get the money (based on athletic contribution).  

https://undalumni.org/giving-impact/colleges-programs/athletics.html

That's new, right?

[SIOUXFAN97]

how is that UND doesn't have anything at the Betty, the Ralph, or the Al named after either Phil Jackson, Jimmy K, Dave Fennell, and Chipman?

especially at the Betty......not one thing named after Phil?  scoreboard...court?...weight  room?  nothing.

[SiouxHawkGuy]

14 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

how is that UND doesn't have anything at the Betty, the Ralph, or the Al named after either Phil Jackson, Jimmy K, Dave Fennell, and Chipman?

especially at the Betty......not one thing named after Phil?  scoreboard...court?...weight  room?  nothing.

Those people aren’t Engelstads 

[SIOUXFAN97]

15 minutes ago, SiouxHawkGuy said:

Those people aren’t Engelstads 

phil jackson couldn't pay for a nice scoreboard or two?

[SIOUXFAN97]

20 minutes ago, SiouxHawkGuy said:

Those people aren’t Engelstads 

dr death couldn't afford to buy some weights or upgraded lockers?

[UND08]

1 hour ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

phil jackson couldn't pay for a nice scoreboard or two?

To be fair...has anyone from UND asked him??