Some Thoughts on UND's FB Program

[jdub27]

14 minutes ago, Bison Dan said:

You seem to always forget your university supports your athletic dept to the tune of 10M EVERYYEAR.  

And haven't had a problem making their budget since things were addressed 7 years ago.
Unlike other institutions that continuously decided kicking the can down the road while watching their enrollment continue to decline was the right answer.
Does that $5 million bailout actually do anything except bridge this budget cycles gap? Doesn't sound like there were a whole lot of tough decisions made that will fix things in the future....

[SiouxHawkGuy]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

From the link:

If this passes the size of the Alerus Center just became a non-factor. 

The Alerus Center could probably fit the average MAC attendance 

[The Sicatoka]

These potential changes ... if they happen are quite interesting. 

Key points:
- 16 sports (not new)
- $6M in grants (90% of scholarships allowed, 210 grants)
- drop the attendance requirements

UND is at $5.94M now and doing 17 sports.
NDSU is doing 16 sports but is at $5M.
SDSU is at $4.25M and 20+ sports.
Montana St is almost $6M like UND but only 15 sports.
Montana is $5.5M but only 15 sports. 

The knock on UND is "Alerus is too small". If that is no longer an issue, UND seems to have the smallest lift, namely just fund the additional FBS grants. 

Most curious. 

Data: https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/f3039088 

[nodak651]

Argument could be made that NDSU should bump their equestrian team up to the NCAA level.  Surprised there hasn't been a lawsuit yet, especially after failing to cut the club program.  3rd prong of title 9.

[The Sicatoka]

Imagine the number "$5M" haunting you two ways:
- it's all you're doing in athletic grants and raising that will get some Title IX eyeballs to verify all is well, or not
- it's what the NDSU academic bailout was -- imagine the press: $5M academic bailout used as FBS FB buy-in 

I stand by my observation:
Of the MTs, SDs, and NDs, UND has the smallest lift under the proposed rule, followed by NDSU. 

[FSSD]

7 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Child's play: https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/99e13586 

I agree on the scholarships..  but I thought that NDSU fully funded all sports.  And if moving to FBS is going to require an additional 22 for football.  Would NDSU need to add a sport? Which could mean an additional 22 or so for a women's sports to get to the $6 number.  And at what point are the FBS schools who are making up their own rules going to drop the two approaches to title IX.  And go with equal opportunity.  The day that comes you would see a sizable shift in resources at NDSU.  All things to be considered prior to making the move.

[FSSD]

5 hours ago, Bison Dan said:

You seem to always forget your university supports your athletic dept to the tune of 10M EVERYYEAR.  

I think the difference you are talking about is around $5 million.  But, you need to consider the differences in programs supports by the department.  NDSU has taken a very strategic approach to moving into FCS much like the Montana schools.  But, moving up to FBS and MW could change some of those approaches.

NOTE:  Source USA Today Database.

 

[FSSD]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Imagine the number "$5M" haunting you two ways:
- it's all you're doing in athletic grants and raising that will get some Title IX eyeballs to verify all is well, or not
- it's what the NDSU academic bailout was -- imagine the press: $5M academic bailout used as FBS FB buy-in 

I stand by my observation:
Of the MTs, SDs, and NDs, UND has the smallest lift under the proposed rule, followed by NDSU. 

You also need to remember that the SDs have mortgages on those new facilities to be paid.

[The Sicatoka]

9 minutes ago, FSSD said:

You also need to remember that the SDs have mortgages on those new facilities to be paid.

Yikes.

[The Sicatoka]

30 minutes ago, FSSD said:

I agree on the scholarships..  but I thought that NDSU fully funded all sports.  And if moving to FBS is going to require an additional 12 for football. 

That's where NDSU at $5M for grants doesn't make sense. Both MT schools, with fewer sports, are dollars ahead. I wonder if @nodak651 has some data. 

And FBS means going 63 -> 85 FB scholarships (plus whatever Title IX adjustments must also be made). 

EDIT: I look elsewhere and what do I find @nodak651 has posted. 

Quote

 

NDSU Athletically Related Student Aid
Men's Teams Women's Teams Total
Total $3,089,937 $1,934,777 $5,024,714
Ratio (percent) 61 39 100%

Unduplicated Count of Participants 273 Men 158 Women (63/37)

 

Their overall campus enrollment can't be that male dominated. 

[The Sicatoka]

15 minutes ago, FSSD said:

NOTE:  Source USA Today Database.

More up to date.

https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports 

[Mama Sue]

What a mess. Maybe just radio games, outdoor stadiums, and pay cash at the gate should come back. Too many fingers in the pie and every one of them wants to make money off college sports, IMHO.

[Hawkster]

1 hour ago, FSSD said:

I agree on the scholarships..  but I thought that NDSU fully funded all sports.  And if moving to FBS is going to require an additional 12 for football.  Would NDSU need to add a sport? Which could mean an additional 12 or so for a women's sports to get to the $6 number.  And at what point are the FBS schools who are making up their own rules going to drop the two approaches to title IX.  And go with equal opportunity.  The day that comes you would see a sizable shift in resources at NDSU.  All things to be considered prior to making the move.

Moving to FBS requires an additional 22 scholarships going from 63 to 85

[FSSD]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

That's where NDSU at $5M for grants doesn't make sense. Both MT schools, with fewer sports, are dollars ahead. I wonder if @nodak651 has some data. 

And FBS means going 63 -> 85 FB scholarships (plus whatever Title IX adjustments must also be made). 

EDIT: I look elsewhere and what do I find @nodak651 has posted. 

Their overall campus enrollment can't be that male dominated. 

It is not, per Department of Education Numbers

EF Male Count: 4590 approximately 51%

EF Female Count: 4397 approximately 49%

EF Total Count: 8987 

[FSSD]

1 minute ago, Hawkster said:

Moving to FBS requires an additional 22 scholarships going from 63 to 85

Well that was embarrassing 

[SiouxFan100]

What would be the effect on UND football if Sanford came to town?

[SIOUXFAN97]

On 6/29/2023 at 8:43 AM, UND-FB-FAN said:

It also means NDSU will certainly go FBS then. Hopefully UND learned from their previous mistakes and leads the way to FBS.

fixed

[SIOUXFAN97]

On 6/29/2023 at 2:00 PM, The Sicatoka said:

Imagine the number "$5M" haunting you two ways:
- it's all you're doing in athletic grants and raising that will get some Title IX eyeballs to verify all is well, or not
- it's what the NDSU academic bailout was -- imagine the press: $5M academic bailout used as FBS FB buy-in 

I stand by my observation:
Of the MTs, SDs, and NDs, UND has the smallest lift under the proposed rule, followed by NDSU. 

"smallest lift"....explain for the guys in the back

 

[The Sicatoka]

Least work to do; shortest check list. 

[iramurphy]

5 hours ago, SiouxFan100 said:

What would be the effect on UND football if Sanford came to town?

Initially it was $10,000,000 but it included the Sports Med contract. The $10,000,000 was left “dangling “ for quite some time. I have no idea anymore but if I were UND, both issues would be on page one. 

[petey23]

On 6/29/2023 at 4:20 PM, The Sicatoka said:

That's where NDSU at $5M for grants doesn't make sense. Both MT schools, with fewer sports, are dollars ahead. I wonder if @nodak651 has some data. 

And FBS means going 63 -> 85 FB scholarships (plus whatever Title IX adjustments must also be made). 

EDIT: I look elsewhere and what do I find @nodak651 has posted. 

Their overall campus enrollment can't be that male dominated. 

It's not. I have said this for a few years, or at least going back to when we dropped women's hockey and I did a little research. The A.D.'s office probably breaks into a cold sweat whenever they see 4-5 females coming into the office to discuss opportunity...whether it be Hockey, Rugby, Wrestling or something else.

Looking at some of the bigger schools in the country it seems that women's rowing seems to be the way to even out the participation prong. Looking at the sheer numbers on B10 rowing rosters and I would wager there are 20-30 girls walking around campus who are unaware they are even on the team.

[Mama Sue]

14 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Initially it was $10,000,000 but it included the Sports Med contract. The $10,000,000 was left “dangling “ for quite some time. I have no idea anymore but if I were UND, both issues would be on page one. 

Not so sure…..corporate healthcare is not what it is cracked up to be. Although the GF area is large enough to support all specialties and sub specialities. It is the gobble-gobble of smaller area hospitals and clinics that change the small community landscape…forever.

[northernraider]

13 hours ago, petey23 said:

It's not. I have said this for a few years, or at least going back to when we dropped women's hockey and I did a little research. The A.D.'s office probably breaks into a cold sweat whenever they see 4-5 females coming into the office to discuss opportunity...whether it be Hockey, Rugby, Wrestling or something else.

Looking at some of the bigger schools in the country it seems that women's rowing seems to be the way to even out the participation prong. Looking at the sheer numbers on B10 rowing rosters and I would wager there are 20-30 girls walking around campus who are unaware they are even on the team.

Pick one of these sports and call it a great day for UND women's sports

Varsity Blues scandal - Wikipedia

[JohnboyND7]

15 hours ago, petey23 said:

It's not. I have said this for a few years, or at least going back to when we dropped women's hockey and I did a little research. The A.D.'s office probably breaks into a cold sweat whenever they see 4-5 females coming into the office to discuss opportunity...whether it be Hockey, Rugby, Wrestling or something else.

Looking at some of the bigger schools in the country it seems that women's rowing seems to be the way to even out the participation prong. Looking at the sheer numbers on B10 rowing rosters and I would wager there are 20-30 girls walking around campus who are unaware they are even on the team.

I am sure they are aware they are on the team. My cousin went to Columbia for track. Went out to visit her and she introduced me to a friend who was on the rowing team. Turns out, the girl did not row in high school. Just had a solid build and the coach told her they'd teach her how when she got there. I'm sure the B1G schools engage in similar conduct lol. Coach needs to put a team together after all...

[petey23]

5 hours ago, JohnboyND7 said:

I am sure they are aware they are on the team. My cousin went to Columbia for track. Went out to visit her and she introduced me to a friend who was on the rowing team. Turns out, the girl did not row in high school. Just had a solid build and the coach told her they'd teach her how when she got there. I'm sure the B1G schools engage in similar conduct lol. Coach needs to put a team together after all...

I was being a little sarcastic. But for an event that usually requires 20 athletes I find it a little strange that the average D1 roster is 47 athletes and schools like Iowa and Wisconsin have 70-80 members listed on the teams.

Just saying it seems to be a good way around one of the title 9 prongs or requirements.

Just think at Wisconsin where they had 80 listed on their roster last season, someone is like 65th string.