2023-24 University of North Dakota Hockey Season

[BusinessSoot]

30 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Guilty as charged.

The prior irrational exuberance has been noted and tamped down for this year. 

This year consider me from "Missurah" -> Show Me. 

It is ok Young Grasshopper, opinions and views make the engine on this  forum run!! 

[Wilbur]

3 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Guilty as charged.

The prior irrational exuberance has been noted and tamped down for this year. 

This year consider me from "Missurah" -> Show Me. 

Me three.  I can't believe that with the guys that we had back it was so sketchy.....Frisch, Kleven, Jandric, Moore, Farmer, Sidorski....DeRidder plenty of experience......

I'm anxious to see how the new Swede will do with a better team in front of him.  I hope he isn't one of those goalies that needs a ton of shots to be really really good, and when he only faces 16-20 he's average.....

  

[Irish]

On 5/19/2023 at 12:53 PM, Wilbur said:

Either Moore kills it and takes off with Q's system, or Pecknold kills the kid and he's in a suit for turning the puck over. 

I still can't quite understand how with the crapshow our defense was last year that the 3 players we lost in the portal went to National Champion Quinnipiac, Minnesota Duluth, and Ohio State.  What am I missing?

[The Sicatoka]

11 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I hope he isn't one of those goalies that needs a ton of shots to be really really good, and when he only faces 16-20 he's average.....  

I worried exactly that about DeRidder. ( @stoneySIOUX can attest.) 
He was seeing about 35 shots at MSU.
UND goalies tend to only see 25. 

[The Sicatoka]

1 minute ago, Irish said:

I still can't quite understand how with the crapshow our defense was last year that the 3 players we lost in the portal went to National Champion Quinnipiac, Minnesota Duluth, and Ohio State.  What am I missing?

1. Q bled numbers at D nearly as bad as UND; and he's moving home to CT (probably a cheap* get). 
2. UMD had issues on the back end last year too.
3. And he just may be a better fit in the OSU system (more down the middle; less along the wall). 

And given what's coming in, those guys are now small, even compared to the freshmen (save for Livanavage). 
Methinks part of the defensive overhaul was to bulk up yet stay mobile. 

*Never forgot about scholarships and dollars. 

[stoneySIOUX]

1 hour ago, Irish said:

I still can't quite understand how with the crapshow our defense was last year that the 3 players we lost in the portal went to National Champion Quinnipiac, Minnesota Duluth, and Ohio State.  What am I missing?

All three have incredible upside offensively, but haven't shown enough steadiness defensively. Picking upside out of the portal is smart to do, especially if they feel like they have enough defense to cover the risk. Low risk, high reward. Particularly with guys like Moore and Johnson.

[skateshattrick]

1 minute ago, stoneySIOUX said:

All three have incredible upside offensively, but haven't shown enough steadiness defensively. Picking upside out of the portal is smart to do, especially if they feel like they have enough defense to cover the risk. Low risk, high reward. Particularly with guys like Moore and Johnson.

I would add that Moore was very good the previous year, and wasn't as bad this year as some would have you believe--he became the scapegoat for everyone, despite the fact that forwards also need to defend, and goalies need to make routine stops. Moore is very good at breaking out the puck and very good offensively. Johnson is also very talented, especially offensively, but ended up in the coaches' doghouse for reasons that are not entirely clear. I like Bast, but I don't view him as a big loss. 

[stoneySIOUX]

2 minutes ago, skateshattrick said:

I would add that Moore was very good the previous year, and wasn't as bad this year as some would have you believe--he became the scapegoat for everyone, despite the fact that forwards also need to defend, and goalies need to make routine stops. Moore is very good at breaking out the puck and very good offensively. Johnson is also very talented, especially offensively, but ended up in the coaches' doghouse for reasons that are not entirely clear. I like Bast, but I don't view him as a big loss. 

I mean, I think the reasons for Johnson being in the doghouse were very clear lol. He just wasn't a player who just ever really picked up his defensive side as quickly as needed. I think Moore had a good sophomore year, but I never saw him as anything but an average defender at best. He wasn't the god-awful player people were making him out to be this season, however. Totally agree he was scapegoated. 

Frankly, with whom we picked up, all four may be (in my opinion) better players than Bast and that's not even a knock on Bast. Three of them definitely are. 

[Oxbow6]

So gone are the days of recruiting kids, developing them and coaching them up?

[petey23]

2 hours ago, Wilbur said:

Me three.  I can't believe that with the guys that we had back it was so sketchy.....Frisch, Kleven, Jandric, Moore, Farmer, Sidorski....DeRidder plenty of experience......

I'm anxious to see how the new Swede will do with a better team in front of him.  I hope he isn't one of those goalies that needs a ton of shots to be really really good, and when he only faces 16-20 he's average.....

  

Wasn't great to start the year. Frisch and Kleven were solid most of season. Jandric's improvement on D from the previous season was great. Once we got Sidorski in the lineup that helped. Farmer was less than advertised but not terrible and Moore was messy quite a bit. That said, an overhead picture of our goals given up early in the year would show 3 forwards above the dots or trailing a guy into a scoring area. That also improved as season went on.

[fightingsioux4life]

12 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

So gone are the days of recruiting kids, developing them and coaching them up?

It better not be.

[Kevin G]

2 hours ago, skateshattrick said:

I would add that Moore was very good the previous year, and wasn't as bad this year as some would have you believe--he became the scapegoat for everyone, despite the fact that forwards also need to defend, and goalies need to make routine stops. Moore is very good at breaking out the puck and very good offensively. Johnson is also very talented, especially offensively, but ended up in the coaches' doghouse for reasons that are not entirely clear. I like Bast, but I don't view him as a big loss. 

 

1 hour ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I mean, I think the reasons for Johnson being in the doghouse were very clear lol. He just wasn't a player who just ever really picked up his defensive side as quickly as needed. I think Moore had a good sophomore year, but I never saw him as anything but an average defender at best. He wasn't the god-awful player people were making him out to be this season, however. Totally agree he was scapegoated. 

Frankly, with whom we picked up, all four may be (in my opinion) better players than Bast and that's not even a knock on Bast. Three of them definitely are. 

I thought he was a disaster defensively. But surely there were times when he looked bad because others weren't in proper position. 

[Esoteric]

2 hours ago, Kevin G said:

 

I thought he was a disaster defensively. But surely there were times when he looked bad because others weren't in proper position. 

Being in a coaches doghouse for half the season.  

[Irish]

This whole defensive disaster last year to retooling totally this year seems to be a player development issue.  What's going on that we missed on so many players that other good teams want?  Looking at the roster for next year we seem to have some real blanks where previous recruiting classes should be.  If it wasn't for the portal we would be in deep doo doo.  Are we identifying the talent we want and coaching them up in an orderly fashion.  Doesn't look like it.  We have a veteran staff and I am surprised that here we are.  However, I am surprised that we can't recruit and develop good young goalies anymore too.  Hopefully we are back on track.

[brianvf]

Sounds like the lineup is set (as we kind of expected) from this article...doesn't look like a 16th forward will be added:

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-hockey/und-expecting-dane-montgomery-to-be-ready-for-start-of-2023-24-season

Quote

But Montgomery is making progress with his recovery and UND is expecting him to be ready for the start of the 2023-24 season.

"He's doing well," UND coach Brad Berry said. "It was a tough year for him. He didn't see any action. He took a couple steps forward, then a step back. Now, after talking to (athletic trainer) Mark Poolman, Dane feels comfortable to keep moving forward. He's been skating on his own and working out. He hasn't missed a beat. We're optimistic he can get back in the lineup and be part of our group."

Quote

"We toyed around with adding a 16th forward," Berry said. "But we're expecting (Montgomery) to be healthy. We have 15 now and we want to give those guys an opportunity to play."

 

[Big A HG]

1 hour ago, Irish said:

This whole defensive disaster last year to retooling totally this year seems to be a player development issue.  What's going on that we missed on so many players that other good teams want?  Looking at the roster for next year we seem to have some real blanks where previous recruiting classes should be.  If it wasn't for the portal we would be in deep doo doo.  Are we identifying the talent we want and coaching them up in an orderly fashion.  Doesn't look like it.  We have a veteran staff and I am surprised that here we are.  However, I am surprised that we can't recruit and develop good young goalies anymore too.  Hopefully we are back on track.

Don't question Brad Berry on these forums.  We've only won one NCAA game in seven years, but One More Year™!

[The Sicatoka]

9 hours ago, brianvf said:

Sounds like the lineup is set (as we kind of expected) from this article...doesn't look like a 16th forward will be added:

No disrespect intended, but worst case (say if Monty can't go, has a setback, in August) in a Portal world finding a 4th/5th liner is not "find" but "pick" the one you want and can get enrolled for fall. Harsh? Yes. Truthful? Yes. 

[The Sicatoka]

10 hours ago, Irish said:

This whole defensive disaster last year to retooling totally this year seems to be a player development issue.  What's going on that we missed on so many players that other good teams want?  Looking at the roster for next year we seem to have some real blanks where previous recruiting classes should be.  If it wasn't for the portal we would be in deep doo doo.  Are we identifying the talent we want and coaching them up in an orderly fashion.  Doesn't look like it.  We have a veteran staff and I am surprised that here we are.  However, I am surprised that we can't recruit and develop good young goalies anymore too.  Hopefully we are back on track.

Development or fit? Moore and Johnson (and Bast at times) just didn't adapt to the style of defensive play. They would make poor puck management decisions (i.e. "up the middle" instead of "high off the glass"). They seemed to be playing a USHL style in an NCHC (next stop: pros) world. Did they get outstanding support from mature defensive forwards? Undoubtedly no. But when you are a defenseman, your job is defense and smart puck decisions and coverage and positioning first. Can you say that's how they consistently played. 

As far as next year (roster fall 2024), I'll finally say the roster seems to be stabilizing:

• At defense we'll lose the three Portals but we have Strathmann, Jubenvill, and either Ausmus or McInnis, or who knows if Berry-winkle has another recruit-rabbit in his hat. The defense names that don't come '24 will be fall '25s (as I won't be surprised if Zmolek and/or Wiebe are just two year guys with UND). 
• At forward we'll only "time out" one guy (Portal Johannes), and I'm not sure who'll stay or go beyond that. I doubt Albrecht stays for fall '24 but even he has eligibility. Ness, Jamernik, Gaber all have Covid seasons they could use in fall '24. Could one or more leave early? I could see needing 2 up to 8 forwards fall of '24. The pipeline, including Singleton (questionable) and Pilgrim (projected fall '25) is presently eight. I'd say that's finally getting back to "normal". 
• At goalie, it's goalie. Let's hope Persson and Hedquist are the two year and four year solutions. That means they need a backup to Hobie fall of '25 (plus a third G to replace Johnson). That's more than manageable. 

Has it been a ugly "scramble to the Portal for needs" run? Undoubtedly. But to my eye things are returning to stability and there are no glaring "blanks" in recruiting classes, the pipeline, for fall 2024 and what's needed for fall 2025 seems to be a D, a couple F, and a starting G. 

[stoneySIOUX]

10 hours ago, Irish said:

This whole defensive disaster last year to retooling totally this year seems to be a player development issue.  What's going on that we missed on so many players that other good teams want?  Looking at the roster for next year we seem to have some real blanks where previous recruiting classes should be.  If it wasn't for the portal we would be in deep doo doo.  Are we identifying the talent we want and coaching them up in an orderly fashion.  Doesn't look like it.  We have a veteran staff and I am surprised that here we are.  However, I am surprised that we can't recruit and develop good young goalies anymore too.  Hopefully we are back on track.

For every Brent Johnson or Cooper Moore, there are the Dylan Jameses and Ben Strindens..... feels like maybe we're being a little bit of prisioners in the moment. 

[petey23]

15 hours ago, Kevin G said:

 

I thought he was a disaster defensively. But surely there were times when he looked bad because others weren't in proper position. 

Johnson should be entering his freshman season this year after two additional years in USHL which were needed. Mistakes were made by coaching staff and the player and his advisors.

Moore was wildly inconsistent and did not handle aggressive forechecks very well.

[I Ranger]

22 minutes ago, petey23 said:

Johnson should be entering his freshman season this year after two additional years in USHL which were needed. Mistakes were made by coaching staff and the player and his advisors.

Moore was wildly inconsistent and did not handle aggressive forechecks very well.

I have mentioned this many times on this board but I agree this was a very hypocritical move by the staff in not brining in one much more highly touted freshman because they wanted and thought he needed a year in the USHL (yes I know other factors as well) for another that clearly was never close to ready for college hockey. And after this season, they clearly realized there mistake as he didn't get a sniff in the second half of the season. 

[AJS]

10 hours ago, brianvf said:

Sounds like the lineup is set (as we kind of expected) from this article...doesn't look like a 16th forward will be added:

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-hockey/und-expecting-dane-montgomery-to-be-ready-for-start-of-2023-24-season

 

Huge. I was really harping on this after the season, I thought it was crucial to get back to the standard roster construction of 15F, 8D, 3G. Now, play and develop talent. That's the second part to the equation. To me there's a pretty clear 12 / 3 divide. What I'm going to be watching is how many of the 3 find themselves in the lineup. 

[The Sicatoka]

49 minutes ago, petey23 said:

Johnson should be entering his freshman season this year after two additional years in USHL which were needed. Mistakes were made by coaching staff and the player and his advisors. 

To your point, three of the four incoming 2023 freshmen defensemen are DOB-older than Brent Johnson. 

Heck, Jubenvill, coming in 2024(!) is only three months younger than Johnson. 

[tnt]

55 minutes ago, AJS said:

Huge. I was really harping on this after the season, I thought it was crucial to get back to the standard roster construction of 15F, 8D, 3G. Now, play and develop talent. That's the second part to the equation. To me there's a pretty clear 12 / 3 divide. What I'm going to be watching is how many of the 3 find themselves in the lineup. 

It's pretty clear to you, but playing in the USHL or other junior hockey is not college hockey, so there may be transition time.  I think when Ness came out of the USHL after putting up very good numbers people were penciling him into the lineup as well.  

[SpudsSioux]

I think we all agree the Brent Johnson situation was mismanaged. Honestly, if you look at a few of the decisions made since then, I think the coaches have even looked in the mirror and know that bringing him in too early was a mistake on their part. If they continued to do it over and over again I would be concerned they weren't learning. The fact they had Wiebe play another year in the BCHL and they aren't rushing Strathmann in tells me that they learned from that mistake as well.