2023-24 University of North Dakota Hockey Season

[Wilbur]

The part that sucks is that they let Morrow walk to bring in Johnson, and it hasn't worked out with Johnson obviously.  That's life, it happens, we were on the wrong side of the coaches' gut feeling on something.

If we were top three in the NCHC and a playoff lock it's not as big of an issue.  We all know the current state of things though.  

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

56 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

The part that sucks is that they let Morrow walk to bring in Johnson, and it hasn't worked out with Johnson obviously.  That's life, it happens, we were on the wrong side of the coaches' gut feeling on something.

If we were top three in the NCHC and a playoff lock it's not as big of an issue.  We all know the current state of things though.  

A guy I skate with is a UMass fan and said Morrow regressed this year. I don't think he'd be the solution for our current defensive woes.

[Irish]

13 hours ago, Big A HG said:

 

Playing a brand of hockey that doesn't lend itself to improving your draft stock among mediocre players and a mediocre head coach.  Remember, we want culture kids only here now.

Any indication Berry is aware of this and has an inclination to change - because if not we could be in real trouble.

 

[AJS]

I feel a bit like some of the Football posters, where everything coming from them is negative. I can't imagine it's fun to post and I know it's not fun to read it. Same complaints over and over. I am going to pivot a bit. This being the 2023-24 thread. I do like the potential. Of the returners, freshman class, if necessary, a small impactful group of portal guys.

This might sound overly dramatic, but I think this is the most important offseason UND has had in a long time. The moves that we'll see will show if Berry "gets it" or he doesn't. Some things I'm going to watch closely.

• Portal (Exits):
  • # 6: Going to happen, so not going to dwell on it. 
  • #32: Needs to happen. This would be Berry making a tough decision. The caveat here being if they are planning on carrying 4 Goalies. #32 cannot be the #2 goalie next year.
  • #5 / #11: Guys looking for playing time. More depth guys. Hope they stay, but also wouldn't signal a huge issue if they left
  • ANYBODY ELSE: Specifically looking at 18, 21, 24, 29. This would tell me that communication was broken between the player and Coaching staff. They should have large rolls next year. This would be an indication that Berry doesn't "get it". 
• 5th Years:
  • #15: Important guy to return.
  • #28: Only if the decision was between him and going into the portal (for a player of his caliber). I would rather see 18, 21, 29 fill his spot as they could do that. This was a crucial misstep this past off season of the Coaching staff. I will never understand bringing back a player whose roll is easy filled by other guys already on roster. 
  • #13. Under no circumstance 

 

What's my hope? That UND is a program where young talent goes to develop. What's my fear? That this turns into a less successful version of Mankato. By that I mean the older the player the better. That this past year was just a speed bump and the players believe in this coaching staff. Especially the young talented ones that myself and others felt maybe didn't get the same shake as others. I'll be concerned if young talent leaves. You see those spots filled by lets be honest, average 5th years or Band-Aids from the Portal that were brought in, because the staff didn't have enough Freshman who were ready. I'm not anti-portal, I think it's important when used in certain situations. I'm very anti-portal when it's done because there wasn't foresight by the coaching staff (i.e. the defensive additions this year). 

Will be an interesting few weeks once this season ends.  

[AJS]

18 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

29 couldn't crack lineup for weeks now he's in and playing well.

18.....in and out. He's flat out skilled. Zero rope.

21 was a difference maker almost every night he played.....in one game in last 6.

26 is a flat out top 6 talent but was buried for weeks.

22 was the best forward Friday then slides down to the 4th line

The grace given to players on this team is far from equal......and unfortunately that's IMO why this team has no margin of error from here on out to make the NCAA

Would this be a fair statement. I don't know why it just recently clicked. The start of the year went so sideways that Berry started coaching scared. What I mean by that is his roster decisions became more and more focused on who he felt was less likely to make a mistake on any given shift. What does that mean? More minutes to more experienced players. Low risk / Low reward became really important. 

Look at this years Sophomore class. They might have the worst developmental curve of any class in the history of college hockey from Freshman to Sophomore year. 

This year really is a shame. The name of the game wasn't who has a higher ceiling or even who the better player is, it was who is less likely to make a mistake. Low risk / Low reward.  

[Kevin G]

2 hours ago, AJS said:

Would this be a fair statement. I don't know why it just recently clicked. The start of the year went so sideways that Berry started coaching scared. What I mean by that is his roster decisions became more and more focused on who he felt was less likely to make a mistake on any given shift. What does that mean? More minutes to more experienced players. Low risk / Low reward became really important. 

Or to put it another way, it kinda seems like he's been coaching to not lose today, with less concern about developing guys for tomorrow or next weekend or next month.

So let me pose a question: Has the expectation of the coaching staff and the fanbase to compete for a national championship every year started to hinder the program's ability to develop talent? Because developing talent can result in losing (hopefully just briefly) and/or poor play, and whenever we lose or play poorly, all the boo birds and negative Nancys come out of the woodwork and start calling for the coach to be fired. 

[siouxforce19]

4 minutes ago, Kevin G said:

Or to put it another way, it kinda seems like he's been coaching to not lose today, with less concern about developing guys for tomorrow or next weekend or next month.

So let me pose a question: Has the expectation of the coaching staff and the fanbase to compete for a national championship every year started to hinder the program's ability to develop talent? Because developing talent can result in losing (hopefully just briefly) and/or poor play, and whenever we lose or play poorly, all the boo birds and negative Nancys come out of the woodwork and start calling for the coach to be fired. 

I think Berry needs to figure out a balance between developing the younger guys and still putting the most successful team on the ice. I have felt for a few years now that we have sacrificed development of some of our younger players in favor of borderline overplaying the veterans. It’s been going on before this season but I think people overlooked it because things were going relatively well. 

[The Sicatoka]

4 hours ago, AJS said:

I feel a bit like some of the Football posters, where everything coming from them is negative. I can't imagine it's fun to post and I know it's not fun to read it. Same complaints over and over. I am going to pivot a bit. This being the 2023-24 thread. I do like the potential. Of the returners, freshman class, if necessary, a small impactful group of portal guys.

This might sound overly dramatic, but I think this is the most important offseason UND has had in a long time. The moves that we'll see will show if Berry "gets it" or he doesn't. Some things I'm going to watch closely.

• Portal (Exits):
  • # 6: Going to happen, so not going to dwell on it. 
  • #32: Needs to happen. This would be Berry making a tough decision. The caveat here being if they are planning on carrying 4 Goalies. #32 cannot be the #2 goalie next year.
  • #5 / #11: Guys looking for playing time. More depth guys. Hope they stay, but also wouldn't signal a huge issue if they left
  • ANYBODY ELSE: Specifically looking at 18, 21, 24, 29. This would tell me that communication was broken between the player and Coaching staff. They should have large rolls next year. This would be an indication that Berry doesn't "get it". 
• 5th Years:
  • #15: Important guy to return.
  • #28: Only if the decision was between him and going into the portal (for a player of his caliber). I would rather see 18, 21, 29 fill his spot as they could do that. This was a crucial misstep this past off season of the Coaching staff. I will never understand bringing back a player whose roll is easy filled by other guys already on roster. 
  • #13. Under no circumstance 

 

What's my hope? That UND is a program where young talent goes to develop. What's my fear? That this turns into a less successful version of Mankato. By that I mean the older the player the better. That this past year was just a speed bump and the players believe in this coaching staff. Especially the young talented ones that myself and others felt maybe didn't get the same shake as others. I'll be concerned if young talent leaves. You see those spots filled by lets be honest, average 5th years or Band-Aids from the Portal that were brought in, because the staff didn't have enough Freshman who were ready. I'm not anti-portal, I think it's important when used in certain situations. I'm very anti-portal when it's done because there wasn't foresight by the coaching staff (i.e. the defensive additions this year). 

Will be an interesting few weeks once this season ends.  

First, you bring in two goalies, a portal and either the recruit if he's ready or a second portal. Carrying 3 or 4 goalies is up to 32. 

Next, there are 16F. Two go. But I'm thinking of only carrying 15F (assuming 4G). If 10 and 19 and one more go you bring in 2 forwards (Perron, Emerson). More departures than that (four total) you maybe bring Croal or Panzer. A fifth, Panzer or Croal or ... portal.  

Finally, defense. Frankly I could see needing anywhere from five to eight defensemen. Yes, eight. It'd be apocalyptic, but losing them all could happen. I pray it's just five (keep 15, 4, and 24) and it's five freshies attending "Ethan's School for New NCHC Defensemen." 

[Oxbow6]

1 hour ago, Kevin G said:

Or to put it another way, it kinda seems like he's been coaching to not lose today, with less concern about developing guys for tomorrow or next weekend or next month.

So let me pose a question: Has the expectation of the coaching staff and the fanbase to compete for a national championship every year started to hinder the program's ability to develop talent? Because developing talent can result in losing (hopefully just briefly) and/or poor play, and whenever we lose or play poorly, all the boo birds and negative Nancys come out of the woodwork and start calling for the coach to be fired. 

Again this team was top 5 pre-season nationally and finished 6th in the conference. I'd say the plug and play approach this season with a few guys regardless of production and performance has resulted in losing and/or poor play.

[petey23]

36 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Again this team was top 5 pre-season nationally and finished 6th in the conference. I'd say the plug and play approach this season with a few guys regardless of production and performance has resulted in losing and/or poor play.

Similar, but not as bad as North Carolina hoops. Preseason #1 in the country...7th place in the ACC.

[Big A HG]

9 hours ago, Irish said:

Any indication Berry is aware of this and has an inclination to change - because if not we could be in real trouble.

 

 

If he hasn't figured it out by now, he's never going to.  He's had his own recruits for years now.  Notice how many blue chip recruits choose not to play here now?  Notice how you don't even hear about is in the running for many of them either?  A few here and there, but not like it was not that long ago.  Either Berry isn't recruiting as many or they don't want to play for him...both reasons are a problem.

 

A college coach's number one priority is recruiting....or at least it should be.  Your Alabamas, Georgias, Ohio States, Dukes, North Carolinas, etc of the world all focus their energy on recruiting.  Coaching is important, but you need talented players to win.  North Dakota hockey has an emberrysment of riches...where are the players?   Look at Lincoln Riley and USC football.  USC lost the ability to recruit the amount of high end talent it needed to compete nationally, so they did something about it and hired Lincoln Riley.  It changed the culture and program immediately for the better and they turned a 3-7 season into an 11-3 season in Lincoln's first year.

[jk]

18 minutes ago, Big A HG said:

 

If he hasn't figured it out by now, he's never going to.  He's had his own recruits for years now.  Notice how many blue chip recruits choose not to play here now?  Notice how you don't even hear about is in the running for many of them either?  A few here and there, but not like it was not that long ago.  Either Berry isn't recruiting as many or they don't want to play for him...both reasons are a problem.

 

This is not true.  UND has gone long stretches in the past without top national blue chips.  I'm sure I'm missing some, but there weren't many between the Oshie/Toews class and when Schmaltz and Boeser came along, and that was nearly a decade.

I actually think UND is in the running for maybe even more big names now than in the recent past.  The big 10 is on a heater right now, so UND has been the bridesmaid lately, but at least they're on the stage. And the current pipeline has a number of really promising forwards.  I think the next few years are going to be very exciting offensively.

[CarpeRemote]

24 minutes ago, Big A HG said:

 

If he hasn't figured it out by now, he's never going to.  He's had his own recruits for years now.  Notice how many blue chip recruits choose not to play here now?  Notice how you don't even hear about is in the running for many of them either?  A few here and there, but not like it was not that long ago.  Either Berry isn't recruiting as many or they don't want to play for him...both reasons are a problem.

 

A college coach's number one priority is recruiting....or at least it should be.  Your Alabamas, Georgias, Ohio States, Dukes, North Carolinas, etc of the world all focus their energy on recruiting.  Coaching is important, but you need talented players to win.  North Dakota hockey has an emberrysment of riches...where are the players?   Look at Lincoln Riley and USC football.  USC lost the ability to recruit the amount of high end talent it needed to compete nationally, so they did something about it and hired Lincoln Riley.  It changed the culture and program immediately for the better and they turned a 3-7 season into an 11-3 season in Lincoln's first year.

Every word if this is true. 

The HC’s prime directive is recruiting, in addition, every resource available to the program should be at the coach’s disposal for that purpose. Every assistant coach should be hired for his ability to recruit. And yes, culture is also an important recruiting tool if used properly. 

[Big A HG]

5 minutes ago, jk said:

This is not true.  UND has gone long stretches in the past without top national blue chips.  I'm sure I'm missing some, but there weren't many between the Oshie/Toews class and when Schmaltz and Boeser came along, and that was nearly a decade.

I actually think UND is in the running for maybe even more big names now than in the recent past.  The big 10 is on a heater right now, so UND has been the bridesmaid lately, but at least they're on the stage. And the current pipeline has a number of really promising forwards.  I think the next few years are going to be very exciting offensively.

 

Literally smack dab in the middle of Oshie/Toews and Schmaltz/Boeser was Nelson/Forbort with rosters fleshed out by other highly touted picks and undervalued talents impressively recruited, such as Frattin, Kristo, Knight, Malone, Rowney and many others.  They may not have been Oshie/Toews good, but were still very talented and were keenly scouted.  We had a minor, allowable dip for a couple of seasons (but still made the tourney and looked competitive) before going on another run of Frozen Fours.  Now more than ever do you need high end skill to consistently score.  You can't throw a decent top line and three other lines of meat grinders out there anymore and compete as effectively.  The officiating doesn't allow it and the skill gap has increased.

[tnt]

5 minutes ago, Big A HG said:

 

Literally smack dab in the middle of Oshie/Toews and Schmaltz/Boeser was Nelson/Forbort with rosters fleshed out by other highly touted picks and undervalued talents impressively recruited, such as Frattin, Kristo, Knight, Malone, Rowney and many others.  They may not have been Oshie/Toews good, but were still very talented and were keenly scouted.  We had a minor, allowable dip for a couple of seasons (but still made the tourney and looked competitive) before going on another run of Frozen Fours.  Now more than ever do you need high end skill to consistently score.  You can't throw a decent top line and three other lines of meat grinders out there anymore and compete as effectively.  The officiating doesn't allow it and the skill gap has increased.

Forbort wasn’t super great in college, and I would argue names like Sanderson, Kleven, Blake, Perron, Strathman, and possibly James and McLaughlin  could match the Malone, Frattin Rowney in the NHL and be all league type players.

[Big A HG]

1 hour ago, tnt said:

Forbort wasn’t super great in college, and I would argue names like Sanderson, Kleven, Blake, Perron, Strathman, and possibly James and McLaughlin  could match the Malone, Frattin Rowney in the NHL and be all league type players.

 

Forbort wasn't a stud, but he was still a solid piece.  First round NHL talent is going to hit more than miss, which is the whole point of this debate.  Bring in better players and you have a higher chance of success. 

[Zypher]

On 2/13/2023 at 11:29 AM, brianvf said:

Here's what I posted a few months ago in the 22/23 season thread as an outlook to 23/24:

This was all before Johnson was put on "permanent bench" status, so I guess add him to the potentially gone list as well.

Wouldn't DeRidder still have his Grad year to play since he was given an extra year due to covid?

[DL Sioux]

4 minutes ago, Zypher said:

Wouldn't DeRidder still have his Grad year to play since he was given an extra year due to covid?

This is that extra year.  He played 4 for Michigan St.

[Zypher]

10 minutes ago, DL Sioux said:

This is that extra year.  He played 4 for Michigan St.

being he played for Michigan State 2018-19 season thru 2021-2022 season, but the 2019-2020/2020-2021 (i cant remember which one) season didn't count, due to NCAA covid rules, all players got extra year allowing 5th year seniors. I was under the understanding, this did not take away the players grad student/grad transfer eligibility year. If it did, shouldn't he be listed as a grad student, not 5th year.

On a side note, I know this college football season, i heard of several players on different teams that were in their 6th year because of the covid rule.

[fightingsioux4life]

7 minutes ago, Zypher said:

being he played for Michigan State 2018-19 season thru 2021-2022 season, but the 2019-2020/2020-2021 (i cant remember which one) season didn't count, due to NCAA covid rules, all players got extra year allowing 5th year seniors. I was under the understanding, this did not take away the players grad student/grad transfer eligibility year. If it did, shouldn't he be listed as a grad student, not 5th year.

On a side note, I know this college football season, i heard of several players on different teams that were in their 6th year because of the covid rule.

Man, I cannot wait until this "extra COVID year" crap is over.

[Zypher]

12 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Man, I cannot wait until this "extra COVID year" crap is over.

I fully agree with you on this one, it's confusing as hell! I will say tho , that, I would like him for one more year, in the net FULL TIME, from the beginning oft he season. He is taken control of it, and would only be stronger next season if he can come back! 

[DL Sioux]

36 minutes ago, Zypher said:

being he played for Michigan State 2018-19 season thru 2021-2022 season, but the 2019-2020/2020-2021 (i cant remember which one) season didn't count, due to NCAA covid rules, all players got extra year allowing 5th year seniors. I was under the understanding, this did not take away the players grad student/grad transfer eligibility year. If it did, shouldn't he be listed as a grad student, not 5th year.

On a side note, I know this college football season, i heard of several players on different teams that were in their 6th year because of the covid rule.

The grad transfer rule didn't allow for a fifth full year of participation, it allowed the athlete to transfer without penalty.  They still had to have a year of eligibility remaining.  With the portal now the grad transfer rule is a moot point! Football players could be on their 6th year if they redshirted one year, had four years, plus extra covid year.

[Kevin G]

2 hours ago, Zypher said:

I fully agree with you on this one, it's confusing as hell! I will say tho , that, I would like him for one more year, in the net FULL TIME, from the beginning oft he season. He is taken control of it, and would only be stronger next season if he can come back! 

It is super confusing, and the NCAA literature often adds to the confusion. As far as DeRidder is concerned, from day one of his announced transfer, we were given the impression by Schlossman and the university that Drew had only one year of eligibility remaining.

[The Sicatoka]

You get four seasons of play/competition. 
You get five academic years to complete them. 

The 2020-21 year does not count towards either category (season of play or academic year).

[The Sicatoka]

DeRidder played four competitive years at MSU. Only three count as one was 2020-21.

 His year at UND is his fourth and final eligible year of competition. He is done.