2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

[Goon]

Just now, Hayduke1 said:

I'm a college sports fan, but face facts.  We probably spend way too much money and have way too big of an investment in them.

You want to live a life without sports? I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't. This year sucked from March 20th - August when hockey started back up. Luckily, I have two subscriptions to Floracing and Dirtvision. 

[Redneksioux]

2 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

And even with the latest CDC clarification on the unique nature of their counting of deaths, you continue to believe this?

What CDC clarification are you referring to?

[jdub27]

3 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

I can see the President's point at this stage but UND just had another testing drive yesterday for students, faculty and staff. A city wide mask mandate is irrelevant to UND and keeping the campus open and I think Bo knows that. UND will continue to get the numbers it needs to see so that they say let's shut campus down......again.

If you think UND wants to shut down campus, you're absolutely out of touch. Like, legitimately zero clue at all.

They are doing everything they can to keep it open, which is why they are doing so much testing to help slow down/prevent excess spread, not so that they can throw in the towel. Students taking a bit more responsibility would be a step in the right direction, but after being locked down and the chances of it being serious to them, I can absolutely see their point of view. 

Armacost is exactly right though, UND shutting down would have a significant impact to the Grand Forks economy, specifically many businesses who have been struggling significantly the last 5 months. He didn't ask for a mask mandate, and I'm not sure that is the answer, but to think the policies city-wide not lining up with UND's and it being irrelevant isn't accurate either. I'm also not sure that closing the bars at 11pm is much more than window dressing, but those businesses have been taking the brunt of things and shutting them down completely doesn't seem fair to them. It's almost like a really complicated answer where the information isn't strictly black and white.

[Bison06]

1 minute ago, Redneksioux said:

What CDC clarification are you referring to?

How do you think influenza deaths are counted each year? Hint: it isn't by having influenza listed on the death certificate like it is with covid.

[1972]

5 minutes ago, Goon said:

This year sucked from March 20th - August when hockey started back up. Luckily, I have two subscriptions to Floracing and Dirtvision. 

i wouldnt put too much hope in hockey starting before the first of january

[Goon]

2 minutes ago, 1972 said:

i wouldn't put too much hope in hockey starting before the first of January

Yeah, I realize that. We may also have hockey in August again next year.  

[jdub27]

17 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

And even with the latest CDC clarification on the unique nature of their counting of deaths, you continue to believe this?

What unique nature of counting deaths are you referring to? Here's a fairly balance explanation of the misinformation about that "clarification"

 

 

12 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

How do you think influenza deaths are counted each year? Hint: it isn't by having influenza listed on the death certificate like it is with covid.

Influenza deaths are counted by a mathematical model. The model takes into account everything you're claiming it doesn't, including not having influenza as the sole cause of death or listed on the death certificate at all. Regardless of your stance on the virus or the reaction (either way), how things like this becoming political is a huge part of the problem.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/how-cdc-estimates.htm

[1972]

1 minute ago, Goon said:

Yeah, I realize that. We may also have hockey in August again next year.  

if fans can start going, that will be a big step.....fingers crossed

[Goon]

18 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

Cross that one off the list for now.

When I read the Grand Forks, ND needs a mask mandate, I am not sure what else we could do? You already have to wear a mask in (almost all) the stores that I've been in around Grand Forks, ND. Seriously, I am not going to wear a mask when I am outside exercising on my bike. I am not going to wear a mask when I walk the dog outside. I see people wearing masks in their car when they're driving around town. I am not sure what that's doing? 

[Redneksioux]

8 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

How do you think influenza deaths are counted each year? Hint: it isn't by having influenza listed on the death certificate like it is with covid.

I understand that. If they counted flu deaths the same way they count Covid deaths we'd have between 3,000 to 16,000 flu deaths annually. Instead they take that actual number and multiply it by 6 due to undertesting. Still well below Covid deaths.

[Goon]

2 minutes ago, 1972 said:

if fans can start going, that will be a big step.....fingers crossed

I think fans will wear their knees out hoping and praying we have fans in the stands. 

[Bison06]

1 minute ago, jdub27 said:

What unique nature of counting deaths are you referring to? Here's a fairly balance explanation of the misinformation about that "clarification"

 

 

Influenze deaths are counted by a mathmetical model. The model takes into account everything you're claiming it doesn't, including not having influezna as the sole cause of death or listed as a cause of death at all.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/how-cdc-estimates.htm

It doesn't take into account everything I'm talking about. Influenza numbers as you say are estimated(underestimated, which is agreed upon by every expert) by a mathematical formula as you've said, that's true. But if we are counting Covid deaths as someone who dies and also has a Covid positive test, yet we have damn good evidence to support that many of these positive tests are false positives, it becomes quite clear that can lead to a serious problem.

The truth is, we wont know until 2022 or 2023 when the 2020 death statistics are compiled if these deaths being counted as Covid, because they tested positive for it, are truly causing an increase in deaths or if they are simply replacing the deaths that would be counted in other categories in previous years.

[Bison06]

2 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

I understand that. If they counted flu deaths the same way they count Covid deaths we'd have between 3,000 to 16,000 flu deaths annually. Instead they take that actual number and multiply it by 6 due to undertesting. Still well below Covid deaths.

And Covid deaths are counted when someone tests positive for the virus, even if that test is flawed, and then die from complications. 

So if they are counted in different ways why do people continue to say Covid deaths far outweigh Influenza deaths when it's not an apples to apples comparison and is somewhat irrelevant?

[Redneksioux]

2 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

It doesn't take into account everything I'm talking about. Influenza numbers as you say are estimated(underestimated, which is agreed upon by every expert) by a mathematical formula as you've said, that's true. But if we are counting Covid deaths as someone who dies and also has a Covid positive test, yet we have damn good evidence to support that many of these positive tests are false positives, it becomes quite clear that can lead to a serious problem.

The truth is, we wont know until 2022 or 2023 when the 2020 death statistics are compiled if these deaths being counted as Covid, because they tested positive for it, are truly causing an increase in deaths or if they are simply replacing the deaths that would be counted in other categories in previous years.

So are you implying we should wait 2-3 years before making any decisions on how we act/react?

[jdub27]

Just now, Bison06 said:

It doesn't take into account everything I'm talking about. Influenza numbers as you say are estimated(underestimated, which is agreed upon by every expert) by a mathematical formula as you've said, that's true. But if we are counting Covid deaths as someone who dies and also has a Covid positive test, yet we have damn good evidence to support that many of these positive tests are false positives, it becomes quite clear that can lead to a serious problem.

The truth is, we wont know until 2022 or 2023 when the 2020 death statistics are compiled if these deaths being counted as Covid, because they tested positive for it, are truly causing an increase in deaths or if they are simply replacing the deaths that would be counted in other categories in previous years.

I agree with that, testing should be better than it is. Not sure what the solution there is other than proceed with what we have and hope we keep learning at an exponential rate.

One of the things that they will go back and look at is excess deaths vs. expectations, which has exceeded the expected threshold every single week since March 28th. Absolutely no argument that there is a portion related to the fallout from the response to CoVid and without seeing cause of deaths, it is tough to tell how that breaks out. But 5 months straight of higher than expected deaths is a clear indication something is going on.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

[Redneksioux]

3 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

And Covid deaths are counted when someone tests positive for the virus, even if that test is flawed, and then die from complications. 

So if they are counted in different ways why do people continue to say Covid deaths far outweigh Influenza deaths when it's not an apples to apples comparison and is somewhat irrelevant?

What percentage of the tests are believed to be flawed? Would you agree that the White House's coronavirus task force should be more concerned about figuring this out instead of reducing the number of people tested?

[Bison06]

2 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

So are you implying we should wait 2-3 years before making any decisions on how we act/react?

No, of course not.

I simply do not buy the notion that this virus is as deadly as we are being told, I think we have massively overreacted for political reason and I'm tired of watching lives being ruined.

We can't beat death. We have to decide how much risk we are willing to take in our lives and decide to let others do the same within reason. We have to be done with this.

[Bison06]

2 minutes ago, Redneksioux said:

What percentage of the tests are believed to be flawed? Would you agree that the White House's coronavirus task force should be more concerned about figuring this out instead of reducing the number of people tested?

It's impossible to know. In my mind it's high enough to believe that the death toll is being over-counted, though I admittedly have a bias as I want to be done with this and let people get back to their lives.

[Goon]

The State Department was Spying on American Citizens

Quote

 

Read Sara’s story: Judicial Watch Investigates Claims Ousted Ukrainian Ambassador Monitored Journalists. I Was One Of Them.

In October, Judicial Watch issued a Freedom of Information Act request to the State Department asking for “any and all records regarding, concerning, or related to the monitoring of any U.S.-based journalist, reporter, or media commentator by any employee or office of the Department of State between January 1, 2019 and the present.”

At the time, this reporter spoke to sources that had confirmed that members of the media, including myself and 12 others, were having their social media accounts spied on by members of the Ukrainian embassy” against policy and using tax payer dollars to do so.

Last October, Judicial Watch’s FOIA requested “all records pertaining to the scope of the monitoring to be conducted and individuals subject to it as well as records documenting the information collected pursuant to the monitoring.”

 

 

[Kab]

What was the original estimate of deaths for North Dakota

i was thinking several thousand 

and in the millions for the US

 

[Goon]

1 minute ago, Bison06 said:

It's impossible to know. In my mind it's high enough to believe that the death toll is being over-counted, though I admittedly have a bias as I want to be done with this and let people get back to their lives.

I think we need to do an accounting of the death toll. I've also wondered if we check those numbers there was some over counting of deaths. 

[Goon]

Just now, Kab said:

What was the original estimate of deaths for North Dakota

i was thinking several thousand 

and in the millions for the US

 

Paging @Oxbow6 do you have those estimates?  

[Goon]

No more lock-downs in Florida

Quote

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis warned at a Monday press conference that his state will “never do any” lockdowns associated with COVID-19 again. He made the proclamation during a series of discussions he spoke at with President Donald Trump’s newest coronavirus task force doctor Scott Atlas, who supported DeSantis and reiterated that the shutdowns have proved more harmful overall, than other efforts to mitigate the novel virus and protect the most vulnerable.

 

[Redneksioux]

3 minutes ago, Goon said:

I think we need to do an accounting of the death toll. I've also wondered if we check those numbers there was some over counting of deaths. 

Interesting, let me guess you vote right instead of left?

The medical experts reports I've seen say we are under-counting covid deaths.

[Bison06]

3 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

I agree with that, testing should be better than it is. Not sure what the solution there is other than proceed with what we have and hope we keep learning at an exponential rate.

One of the things that they will go back and look at is excess deaths vs. expectations, which has exceeded the expected threshold every single week since March 28th. Absolutely no argument that there is a portion related to the fallout from the response to CoVid and without seeing cause of deaths, it is tough to tell how that breaks out. But 5 months straight of higher than expected deaths is a clear indication something is going on.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

I agree, the statistics clearly point to more deaths than expected. However, there can be other explanations for the increase or at least a portion of the increase. Patients stopped chemo, patients stopped controlling their diabetes diligently, patients stopped taking lifesaving medications, patients stopped seeking medical care for a lot of different conditions that could also lead to more deaths than were expected. I guess someday we'll find out, but I see what we've done as an overreaction that will have far reaching negative affects for years and years to come.