Golf

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

Hoge on the first page of the leaderboard, end of day 1 at the PGA.

[SIOUXFAN97]

https://nypost.com/2022/06/07/saudi-backed-liv-golf-tour-presser-ends-with-ap-reporter-booted/

 

money over morals

[SWSiouxMN]

4 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

https://nypost.com/2022/06/07/saudi-backed-liv-golf-tour-presser-ends-with-ap-reporter-booted/

 

money over morals

I want to know the legitamcy of the 1 billion dollar offer the LIV made to Tiger Woods. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

7 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

I want to know the legitamcy of the 1 billion dollar offer the LIV made to Tiger Woods. 

probably true

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

LIV is much ado about nothing.

During most PGA tour events, there are only a handful of the world's top players in attendance.  Often as few as 3 in the top 10 in that week's FedEx standings.  In recent years, the sport's biggest stars have NEVER come out en masse for regular tournaments.  Simple fact of life.

Hell, Tiger is far and away the biggest star in the game and the all-time money leader, and during his peak he would play 12-15 events per year.  No-name journeymen were playing 25-35 (or more).  The fields of 125-150 were full of regular Joes, week-in and week-out.  And what are there, some 200-300 guys with cards/exemptions?

All of this whining makes the PGA look petty...and afraid of competition.  If their product is superior (which I believe it is), they will prevail.  And it's not like visibility will hurt golf.  

I'm old enough to remember the CART/IRL split, and despite some hurt feelings and bruised egos, reunification eventually happened there, too, and much has been forgiven/forgotten.  But there were also more races, new personalities rose to fame, and from a fan's perspective, the leagues complemented one another with respect to ovals and road courses.

The PGA should just shut up and watch.

[SIOUXFAN97]

10 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

LIV is much ado about BILLIONS OF DOLLARS

During most PGA tour events, there are only a handful of the world's top players in attendance.  Often as few as 3 in the top 10 in that week's FedEx standings.  In recent years, the sport's biggest stars have NEVER come out en masse for regular tournaments.  Simple fact of life.

Hell, Tiger is far and away the biggest star in the game and the all-time money leader, and during his peak he would play 12-15 events per year.  No-name journeymen were playing 25-35 (or more).  The fields of 125-150 were full of regular Joes, week-in and week-out.  And what are there, some 200-300 guys with cards/exemptions?

All of this whining makes the PGA look petty...and afraid of competition.  If their product is superior (which I believe it is), they will prevail.  And it's not like visibility will hurt golf.  

I'm old enough to remember the CART/IRL split, and despite some hurt feelings and bruised egos, reunification eventually happened there, too, and much has been forgiven/forgotten.  But there were also more races, new personalities rose to fame, and from a fan's perspective, the leagues complemented one another with respect to ovals and road courses.

The PGA should just shut up and watch.

fixed....LIV is more than just a fart in the wind.

[SIOUXFAN97]

https://nypost.com/2022/06/08/bryson-dechambeau-patrick-reed-latest-to-defect-to-saudi-backed-liv-golf-tour/

[Siouxperfan7]

Lost all respect for any golfer who takes a dime from the LIV Tour.  Money over morals.  You are literally being payed with blood money.  Good riddance to all of them.  Hope the PGA permanantly bans these guys from ever coming back to the PGA tour when the LIV inevitable folds.  

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

6 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Lost all respect for any golfer who takes a dime from the LIV Tour.  Money over morals.  You are literally being payed with blood money.  Good riddance to all of them.  Hope the PGA permanantly bans these guys from ever coming back to the PGA tour when the LIV inevitable folds.  

Because somehow sports are (or should be) completely immune from geopolitical and economic realities, right?  How selective are people being with their armchair forensic accounting as a fandom qualifier? 

Shall we open the books on PGA title sponsors next?  Apparel and equipment managers?  Golf course ownership?

Maybe the Olympics are your gold standard for economic purity free of political or unsavory influence.

For many of us, sports are entertainment, not a personal moral barometer.

[Siouxperfan7]

10 minutes ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Because somehow sports are (or should be) completely immune from geopolitical and economic realities, right?  How selective are people being with their armchair forensic accounting as a fandom qualifier? 

Shall we open the books on PGA title sponsors next?  Apparel and equipment managers?  Golf course ownership?

Maybe the Olympics are your gold standard for economic purity free of political or unsavory influence.

For many of us, sports are entertainment, not a personal moral barometer.

Do yourself some research and look into the dealings of Mohammed bin Salman and the Saudi goverment.  Nothing any sponser, equipment company, or golf course owner has ever done compare to what the Saudi government and Salman have done.  Disagreeing with someones opinion and boycotting a business is one thing.  But if getting paid hundreds of millions of dollars to a man and country that commits human rights violations and crimes they have done is inexcusable.  

[SIOUXFAN97]

51 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Do yourself some research and look into the dealings of Mohammed bin Salman and the Saudi goverment.  Nothing any sponser, equipment company, or golf course owner has ever done compare to what the Saudi government and Salman have done.  Disagreeing with someones opinion and boycotting a business is one thing.  But if getting paid hundreds of millions of dollars to a man and country that commits human rights violations and crimes they have done is inexcusable.  

or you could just do the greg norman defense........yeah the saudi's suck but the usa sucks bc we HAD slavery.....

another guy with no self awareness

[Yote 53]

I have REALLY gotten into golf the last couple of years for several reasons.  The largest one being is these guys are out there hunting and keeping what they kill.  They earn every penny.  There are no holdouts, contract disputes, pay me more money, NIL, fair share, etc, etc.  These PGA guys go out, play, make the cut, finish as high as they can and get paid.  There is something democratic about it all. 

Another reason being I can (kind of) simulate what these guys do out there.  There is no chance for me to play football again.  Pickup hockey, huff n puff leagus, slow pitch softball, maybe, amateur baseball.  Theoretically I could work on my golf game, enter a US Open qualifier, get to the US Open, win it, and end up on Tour.  I know, not realisitc, but I saw quit a few guys on Monday qualify that will be teeing it up with the big dogs next week.  Can't do that in other sports. 

All this talk of money and these guys selling out to the Saudi Tour, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  I used to like some of these guys, no more.  But let's also take a look at the guys that have crossed over.  Some of these guys lack character, have been accused of cheating, and some we've know to always be egotistical and all about the money.  I've lost a lot of respect for these guys and am disappointed, especially in Bryson, I actually liked that guy.  I thought he had a good personality, kind of a big oaf, but sincere, and worked hard.  Now look at the guys who have stayed and are speaking out like Rory, JT, and Scheff.  Confirms to me who I should be pulling for.

The irony is that these defectors who claim to be "contractors" have in essence sold out their individual contractor rights to become contracted employees of the Saudi Tour and some have pledged to the tour full time.  That's an employee.

I'll be watching the RBC Canadian Open starting tomorrow.  Will not watch a single LIV event.

[petey23]

3 hours ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Do yourself some research and look into the dealings of Mohammed bin Salman and the Saudi goverment.  Nothing any sponser, equipment company, or golf course owner has ever done compare to what the Saudi government and Salman have done.  Disagreeing with someones opinion and boycotting a business is one thing.  But if getting paid hundreds of millions of dollars to a man and country that commits human rights violations and crimes they have done is inexcusable.  

We went to China for the Olympics.

[Snake]

2 hours ago, petey23 said:

We went to China for the Olympics.

I hear the NBA is real big there too. 

[Yote 53]

18 hours ago, petey23 said:

We went to China for the Olympics.

And then we went back again.  Ugh.

[Siouxperfan7]

PGA Tour suspends all players taking part in first LIV Golf tournament

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34063037/pga-tour-suspends-all-players-taking-part-first-liv-golf-tournament

[siouxfaninseattle]

While it's not possible to condone what Saudi Arabia has done in the past, and continues to do, here is something to consider. It's not OK for the players to take the money but it's OK for every single person in America to buy Saudi oil? FWIW I don't like the idea of this tour, nor do I like the idea of players joining it, nor do I think it will last long. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

1 hour ago, siouxfaninseattle said:

While it's not possible to condone what Saudi Arabia has done in the past, and continues to do, here is something to consider. It's not OK for the players to take the money but it's OK for every single person in America to buy Saudi oil? FWIW I don't like the idea of this tour, nor do I like the idea of players joining it, nor do I think it will last long. 

but we don't have to buy saudi oil.........we have ENOUGH OF OUR OWN

[Yote 53]

19 hours ago, siouxfaninseattle said:

While it's not possible to condone what Saudi Arabia has done in the past, and continues to do, here is something to consider. It's not OK for the players to take the money but it's OK for every single person in America to buy Saudi oil? FWIW I don't like the idea of this tour, nor do I like the idea of players joining it, nor do I think it will last long. 

Buying Saudi oil is not my choice.  I have no control of imports/exports.  I have no control over whether the American government does business with the Saudis.  I'd prefer we get out of that area of the world and stay out of it but that is not practical either from a geopolitical standpoint.  Just so happens the world runs on oil and a crapload of it is located in the worst region in the world.  I can tell you this, I vote for people that are pro-energy independence when it's my opportunity to vote and I'll just leave it at that.

These professional golfers do have a choice and there lies the difference.

[zonadub]

The thing that made me chuckle was the US Open press conferences where the players, for instance Mickelson, said they are joining LIV so they could play less. Did they not read their contract? They are going to be required to play 14 “tournaments” next year and something like 20 eventually. These guys can set their own schedules and skip as many PGA Tour events as they want to and stay members of the PGA Tour. Do they really think they are going to be able to skip events on the LIV calendar without repercussions? Good luck with that. Tiger can stay in good standing on the PGA Tour and only play the majors, if that is all his body will allow. Granted, of the current LIV roster, only Mickelson and DJ have permanent status on the PGA Tour, but the rest have more latitude in setting their schedules now than they will over the next 3 - 5 years on LIV.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

2 hours ago, zonadub said:

The thing that made me chuckle was the US Open press conferences where the players, for instance Mickelson, said they are joining LIV so they could play less. Did they not read their contract? They are going to be required to play 14 “tournaments” next year and something like 20 eventually. These guys can set their own schedules and skip as many PGA Tour events as they want to and stay members of the PGA Tour. Do they really think they are going to be able to skip events on the LIV calendar without repercussions? Good luck with that. Tiger can stay in good standing on the PGA Tour and only play the majors, if that is all his body will allow. Granted, of the current LIV roster, only Mickelson and DJ have permanent status on the PGA Tour, but the rest have more latitude in setting their schedules now than they will over the next 3 - 5 years on LIV.

Let's unpack that a little bit.

The PGA requires 15 events per year.

Have you read the standard LIV contract?  If so, please share a link, because I would love to.

14 events x 3 rounds each = 42 rounds = 10.5 PGA events

"Something like 20 eventually" presumes that LIV will reach that level and still be in existence.  If this year's LIV signees signed a 3-year deal (the number I heard commonly reported), that still might not be enough time for the LIV to reach maturation.

The up-front and guarantee money is dollars in the bank.  PGA tour events pay nothing if you miss the cut.  So even a gradual increase in the LIV schedule is sure to be offset by an increase in compensation.

Don't get swallowed up in the soundbites and the anti-LIV rhetoric...as with everything, there are two sides to the story.  I suggest sitting back and enjoying the golf, politics-free.

[zonadub]

OK, LIV has 10 events planned for 2023 and 14 for 2024 and 2025. I stand corrected on that.

another question, from the other side… Robert Garrigus was the first to request permission to play LIV. He wasn’t in the LIV field and wasn’t playing in Canada. So what was the deal there? His request was denied, and he respected the tour’s denial, but he still was not high enough in the pecking order to play in Canada? I smell something fishy there.

I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other, but questions keep coming to mind.

[The Sicatoka]

So LIV is the Saudis.
The NBA defers to the wishes of Chinese Communist Party. 

Plenty of bad-actors to go around. 

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

(Non LIV-related) STAT OF THE WEEK:

Since winning at Pebble, and ascending to No. 2 in the FedEx standings, ND's Tom Hoge has logged finishes of:

T14, CUT, T32, T33, T58, T39, CUT, CUT, T17, T9 (PGA!), CUT, CUT, and is in danger of missing the cut in this weekend's US Open.  He has also settled back down to 11th in the FedEx Cup.

Hoping he can recapture some of the early season magic, and a little more consistency.  Still likely to be a factor down the stretch in terms of a high finish for the Cup.

[SIOUXFAN97]

23 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

(Non LIV-related) STAT OF THE WEEK:

Since winning at Pebble, and ascending to No. 2 in the FedEx standings, ND's Tom Hoge has logged finishes of:

T14, CUT, T32, T33, T58, T39, CUT, CUT, T17, T9 (PGA!), CUT, CUT, and is in danger of missing the cut in this weekend's US Open.  He has also settled back down to 11th in the FedEx Cup.

Hoping he can recapture some of the early season magic, and a little more consistency.  Still likely to be a factor down the stretch in terms of a high finish for the Cup.

he might be the carson wentz of the pga before long...