UNDvince97-01 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, jdub27 said: If true, what is going on that a motivational speaker is allowed to recommend and supply supplements to players? Holy hell that is a lack of INSTITUTIONAL control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said: OK. Here's another great portion. Not to the NCAA. The NCAA is black and white. The NCAA is not nuanced when it comes to this topic. That isn’t my point at all. I agree completely that to the NCAA they are both against the rules. But to a player’s performance, anabolic agents are a completely different level of advantage than a preworkout supplement. They are also a completely different level of intention to gain an advantage. That’s my point when I say how prevalent stimulants are vs anabolic agents(steroids, hgh and the like) One you see every single day at the local YMCA or anytime fitness and can purchase through an seemingly inifinite amount of retail stores and online(I took one before my workout this morning)and the other you have to in most cases deal with some unsavory people to acquire or have a prescription theough a medical professional. As I said, completely different universes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 "lack of institutional control" Somewhere Whiskey Joe is smiling thru this whole ordeal as he cornered the market on that during his tenure at NDSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bison06 said: They are also a completely different level of intention to gain an advantage. You just stated that an unapproved agent was used intentionally to gain an advantage. <-- What does one call that? No nuance there, no 'pre workout' qualifiers, no "stimulant v. anabolic", according to the NCAA. And they get to decide, not you or I. Next, just because you see it at the Y? C'mon, that is precisely the "everybody does it" defense. These staff and players know they're at a whole different standard (the NCAA). They failed and got caught. Own it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 If this was truly a preworkout supplement foul, I’m worried. People have been using these since the 90’s back when creatine hit the market. All coaching/strength staff members better be knowledgeable about what’s given to athletes. More importantly the ADs better know what’s going on in the program. If it turns out that a staff member gave the supplement and Larson made the statement that his staff gives no supplements. He’s not only getting fired but is going to be sued personally. Even if he didn’t know that was going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDvince97-01 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 12 hours ago, bison73 said: Nobody forced his hand. He saw a story and went after it. He did his job. Timelines???? Please 10 hours ago, Siouxphan27 said: 35 days later? Lol. Piece it together, Einstein. Exactly. On January 5th, I posted about this here in the thread that is now locked, so I couldn't quote it. ndsu played their semifinal game on December 14th, when Robbins was tested. Kolpack and Hoole knew about this way before I posted it here on January 5th. Wow, that's some accelerated sleuthing there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Oddly enough, McFeely wrote an article lauding Mr. Newman a few days before the FCS championship. Quote NDSU athletic director Matt Larsen said Newman is an independent contractor and the athletic department essentially reimburses him for travel costs. So NDSU reimburses for travel, but who's actually paying him because he isn't doing it for free. Also, again if true and that is where it came from, what is the relationship to the supplements he's allegedly recommending/providing? Is it something he is profiting by selling them to the school or student-athletes? Seems like a lot of questions that would have been a good follow-up because now there is just a ton of speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 10 minutes ago, homer said: Are all pre workout supplements banned or just the ones distributed by NDSU staff to its athletes? That’s the world of supplements man, no regulation on the contents so you can’t trust labels. You never know what you’re going to get and as an NCAA student/athlete you are educated every single year to know that every single time you put an exogenous substance in your body, you open yourself up to the consequences of that decision. Many of the preworkouts sitting on the shelves in your local GNC may have slightly too much of whatever substance the NCAA tests for in one batch vs another. Whereas another brand might have the exact same substance, but at a slightly lower concentration and it’s technically legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Quote The Bison football team has always looked to gain an edge on its opponents. You don’t win championships without attempting to better yourself every season. Whether it’s Jim Kramer’s grueling summer workout programs or Dave Ellis’s nutrition charts, the Bison are always a step ahead of the FCS field. Ben Newman: NDSU’s Secret Weapon Headline should read "Former Secret." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bison06 said: That isn’t my point at all. I agree completely that to the NCAA they are both against the rules. But to a player’s performance, anabolic agents are a completely different level of advantage than a preworkout supplement. They are also a completely different level of intention to gain an advantage. That’s my point when I say how prevalent stimulants are vs anabolic agents(steroids, hgh and the like) One you see every single day at the local YMCA or anytime fitness and can purchase through an seemingly inifinite amount of retail stores and online(I took one before my workout this morning)and the other you have to in most cases deal with some unsavory people to acquire or have a prescription theough a medical professional. As I said, completely different universes. I agree and it seems to me ridiculous that a preworkout supplement could ruin a program and people’s career athletes/coaches/administrators alike. Yet that’s where we’re at. People better be on the up and up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Bison06 said: That’s the world of supplements man, no regulation on the contents so you can’t trust labels. You never know what you’re going to get and as an NCAA student/athlete you are educated every single year to know that every single time you put an exogenous substance in your body, you open yourself up to the consequences of that decision. Many of the preworkouts sitting on the shelves in your local GNC may have slightly too much of whatever substance the NCAA tests for in one batch vs another. Whereas another brand might have the exact same substance, but at a slightly lower concentration and it’s technically legal. Why would members of the NDSU staff distribute these to its players? I don’t think he got this from GNC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said: You just stated that an unapproved agent was used intentionally to gain an advantage. No nuance there according to the NCAA. And they get to decide, not you or I. I respect you as a poster, you are always level headed. But you’re out of your wheelhouse on this topic. Because of the way the NCAA handles illegality(very vague purposely on what’s illegal) combined with the complete lack of regulation on the supplement industry by the FDA, the only truly safe way to go through college is to take no supplements at all. Players get popped for this every single day in the NCAA because supplement companies have lack of uniformity to their formulations from batch to batch. He took it, he’s responsible for it. Period. I’d be surprised if his intent was to cheat, especially given his reaction. The fact that he was lead to believe it was safe, implicity or explicitly is something I’d like to see addressed. If it was BN then I don’t want him around the team ever again. But, NCAA student athletes are specifically educated on this exact scenario at the beginning of each season and it’s unfortunate, but that’s his responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, UNDvince97-01 said: Exactly. On January 5th, I posted about this here in the thread that is now locked, so I couldn't quote it. But you can link to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Oxbow6 Posted January 31, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, Cratter said: Ben Newman: NDSU’s Secret Weapon Headline should read "Former Secret." 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bison06 said: ... the only truly safe way to go through college is to take no supplements at all. But, NCAA student athletes are specifically educated on this exact scenario at the beginning of each season ... Black and white. No nuance. And you know going in. And the coaches do too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, homer said: Why would members of the NDSU staff distribute these to its players? I don’t think he got this from GNC. That’s where we agree, this shouldn’t be happening due to the level of liability it carries with it. Every institution has the policy that “we don’t give our student athletes any supplements”. This “coach” seems to have acted contrary to that policy and should be investigated for said actions. If I’m BR and his mom, BN has a law suit on his desk by the weekend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Wondering if anyone will interview Travis Beck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, The Sicatoka said: Black and white. No nuance. And you know going in. And the coaches do too. I’m gonna move on, others are understanding the distinction I’m making, but you’re being intentionally obtuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 13 minutes ago, jdub27 said: Oddly enough, McFeely wrote an article lauding Mr. Newman a few days before the FCS championship. So NDSU reimburses for travel, but who's actually paying him because he isn't doing it for free. Also, what's the relationship to the supplements he's allegedly recommending/providing? Is he profiting by selling them to the school or student-athletes? Seems like a lot of questions that would have been a good follow-up... You ask some really ugly questions there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxphan27 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Cratter said: Wondering if anyone will interview Travis Beck. As we speak, The Forum is lining up an interview with him in 2028. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bison06 said: I’m gonna move on, others are understanding the distinction I’m making, but you’re being intentionally obtuse. No, I'm looking at this from the direction the NCAA would take. Ain't much fun to have the NCAA stink-eye on ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Siouxphan27 said: As we speak, The Forum is lining up an interview with him in 2028. I got $20 on the over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Bison06 said: I’m gonna move on, others are understanding the distinction I’m making, but you’re being intentionally obtuse. Andy Dufresne accused Warden Norton of being obtuse and he put Andy in the hole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Some people just metabolize different chemicals at different rates. Some drugs have side effects in some people and are nearly absent in others. The argument that only one bizzon tested positive for a supplement does not absolve every one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, bang said: Andy Dufresne accused Warden Norton of being obtuse and he put Andy in the hole. I’m cool with being Andy in this scenario. We know who ended up on the winning end of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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