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Pairwise 2018-19


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1 hour ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

PST worthy statement here. Thanks for the laugh, goodnight everyone.

I'm not sure what you are implying, but elite programs can put up more than 2 goals in a weekend on Canesius - elite programs can hold 2 goal leads - elite programs have a few guys who can score and who are in the top 50 scorers in the nation - elite programs make the tournament.  Is this temporary? - perhaps - but we have not seen much "elite" play lately.  Tell me what has been elite about the last two years.  How long a slump do we have to have before reality sets in? 

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42 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Does UND have an elite hockey team this year?  No.

Does UND have an elite hockey program?  Yes.

This I agree with - when you take into account the last 40 years we are elite.  When you look at the last several we are not.  The question was "are we still an elite program?  I agree that our fantastic history doesn't go away.  However, we have been far short of elite the last couple of years, and if next year's class doesn't pan out like we hope we will be in for a long slide.  I've been watching Sioux hockey for a long time and I can't recall a more punchless team ever.  I am stunned at the lack of scoring talent and how fast we have fallen.  We'll see - elite programs don't stay down for long.  I have my fingers crossed for a turn around.

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8 hours ago, Irish said:

I'm not sure what you are implying, but elite programs can put up more than 2 goals in a weekend on Canesius - elite programs can hold 2 goal leads - elite programs have a few guys who can score and who are in the top 50 scorers in the nation - elite programs make the tournament.  Is this temporary? - perhaps - but we have not seen much "elite" play lately.  Tell me what has been elite about the last two years.  How long a slump do we have to have before reality sets in? 

Do you have to meet all of those criteria, or are you elite if you meet just one?

As an FYI, I think there are only five teams with a "few" (I defined that as more than two, since two would be "a couple") guys in the top 50 in scoring, and I wouldn't define any of those programs as elite (Mich. St., PSU, Lake State, Quinnipiac, U Mass).  Probably only two even make the tournament this year.

By my count, 9 of Canisius' 10 conference opponents in the AHA have put up more than two goals against Canisius this year.  Do you think those programs, right now, are all more elite than ours?

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6 minutes ago, SJHovey said:

Do you have to meet all of those criteria, or are you elite if you meet just one?

As an FYI, I think there are only five teams with a "few" (I defined that as more than two, since two would be "a couple") guys in the top 50 in scoring, and I wouldn't define any of those programs as elite (Mich. St., PSU, Lake State, Quinnipiac, U Mass).  Probably only two even make the tournament this year.

By my count, 9 of Canisius' 10 conference opponents in the AHA have put up more than two goals against Canisius this year.  Do you think those programs, right now, are all more elite than ours?

I certainly didn't post a list of criteria for an elite program -I was just illustrating our play this year.  I could have easily added our inability to hold leads and our power play. These are just a few reasons that added together show that we are not an elite program this year - When you add up the scoring info it shows that we have a serious lack of talent up front - How many times do we have to watch us miss a wide open net to realize this?  As for the Canesius opponents scoring more than us, this doesn't make them elite as much as it makes us not elite this year.  Like I said previously - do we have an elite history - absolutely.  Have we been elite the last two years?  No way. 

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9 hours ago, Irish said:

I'm not sure what you are implying, but elite programs can put up more than 2 goals in a weekend on Canesius - elite programs can hold 2 goal leads - elite programs have a few guys who can score and who are in the top 50 scorers in the nation - elite programs make the tournament.  Is this temporary? - perhaps - but we have not seen much "elite" play lately.  Tell me what has been elite about the last two years.  How long a slump do we have to have before reality sets in? 

I'd say more than TWO FREAKIN' SEASONS. Goodness. If you had it your way, this nearly two year stretch would define our program, it seems. 

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15 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I'd say more than TWO FREAKIN' SEASONS. Goodness. If you had it your way, this nearly two year stretch would define our program, it seems. 

I am not attempting to define us in two seasons - I've said it before - we have an elite tradition.  I am, however, expressing concern about the shape of our program right now.  I think this is a reasonable concern.

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6 minutes ago, Irish said:

I am not attempting to define us in two seasons - I've said it before - we have an elite tradition.  I am, however, expressing concern about the shape of our program right now.  I think this is a reasonable concern.

The shape of our program is two bad seasons. One of those, is still not complete. UNDBIZ summed it up, perfectly.

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1 hour ago, SJHovey said:

Do you have to meet all of those criteria, or are you elite if you meet just one?

As an FYI, I think there are only five teams with a "few" (I defined that as more than two, since two would be "a couple") guys in the top 50 in scoring, and I wouldn't define any of those programs as elite (Mich. St., PSU, Lake State, Quinnipiac, U Mass).  Probably only two even make the tournament this year.

By my count, 9 of Canisius' 10 conference opponents in the AHA have put up more than two goals against Canisius this year.  Do you think those programs, right now, are all more elite than ours?

I think when looking at national scoring leaders one has to take into consideration the competition differences these players face during the season.

Average goals per team in conference play.

B10-3.1

AHA-3.05

ECAC-2.7

H East-2.7

NCHC-2.7

WCHA-2.55

What happens when these teams step out of conference?

B10-scoring goes up to 4.0 and allowed goes up to 3.2

AHA-scoring goes down to 2.4 and allowed goes up to 4.0

ECAC-scoring goes up to 3.1 and allowed goes up to 3.4

H East-scoring goes up to 2.9 and allowed goes up to 2.8

NCHC-scoring goes up to 3.8 and allowed goes down to 2.6

WCHA-scoring goes up to 2.9 and allowed goes up to 3.7

 

Add a goal or goal and a half a game(3-4.5 points) to a NCHC team and take away 3/4 or a goal a game(1 to 3 points) from AHA teams if they swapped schedules and tell me how the National scoring top 50 looks?

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30 minutes ago, Kermit's Luck said:

In a long career of lurking on sports message boards, this current discussion might actually be one of the most ridiculous I've had the pleasure of reading. Gripe all you want about the lack of scoring on the current squad, but to waste people's time saying we don't have an elite program is the definition of trolling. Or a colossal waste of time for all involved, tough to say.

 

I'm a UND hockey fan and roughly 58% Irish (100% on St Paddy's Day), and this guy makes me shake my head. I'm guessing he has similar struggles with the difference between weather and climate?

My definition of trolling is someone who uses personal insults instead of facts.  I have said we have an elite tradition and history.  I believe that overall we are the best program in the country.   My point is that we are not currently among the elite and it is frustrating.  If you disagree with these definitions so be it.  No need to be a tool about it. 

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9 minutes ago, Irish said:

My definition of trolling is someone who uses personal insults instead of facts.  I have said we have an elite tradition and history.  I believe that overall we are the best program in the country.   My point is that we are not currently among the elite and it is frustrating.  If you disagree with these definitions so be it.  No need to be a tool about it. 

Question for you, were we an Elite program under Dave Hakstol?   I think you know where I am going with this, in that you railed on him forever in a day and that you could accept a few down years if we won a National Championship.  

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37 minutes ago, SJHovey said:

I get that fans can become frustrated when they have higher expectations for the program than are being achieved.  But Michigan once went something like 26 years and only made the tournament once.  Minnesota went 16 years and made the tournament once.  We went ten years without making it, then a decade later we started a streak in which we only made it once out of nine years.  And that doesn't even address the streaks where the tournament was made but no title was achieved.  We are not even 3 years since our last title, and we've missed the tournament exactly one year in a row.  To say that it's early to even start searching for the panic button, let alone pushing it, is an understatement.

Thank you.

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