Kennedy vs. Engelstad Foundation: GF herald feature

[UND-FB-FAN]

  On 5/17/2018 at 6:02 PM, Frozen4sioux said:

Literally the definition of welfare. Lets not try to make entities stand for themselves but rather just provide to them from others.

They ARE being enhanced NOW with some of the fortunate revenue generated by REA. When is it ever going to be enough? 50%.... 75%... 100%... 

 

 

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The entire point of negotiations ... can you prove that the Englestads don't pocket some of the revenue that truthfully belongs to UND via their student-athletes? Don't worry, your precious hockey is maxed out and a 50/50 split (hell even a 75/25 split) won't sink the mighty UND hockey program. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

  On 5/17/2018 at 6:06 PM, Frozen4sioux said:

This is a fantasy.

I've lived the opposite. Others were treated like !@#$ on toast by the FB program and that was BEFORE they went on the D1jv run. Can't imagine the genuflecting that is required now. 

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D1jv run? You realize UND plays at the same level, right? You are really showing your true colors towards "other" UND athletics; it's impossible for attitudes like this to ever actually help UND athletics. 

[SiouxVolley]

  On 5/17/2018 at 10:34 PM, UND-FB-FAN said:

The entire point of negotiations ... can you prove that the Englestads don't pocket some of the revenue that truthfully belongs to UND via their student-athletes? Don't worry, your precious hockey is maxed out and a 50/50 split (hell even a 75/25 split) won't sink the mighty UND hockey program. 

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The tax returns don’t show that the REA Foundation is getting a charitable donation from the REA arena.  One has to accuse all those boards of tax evasion or charitable fraud for that to be happening.

An agreement between McGarry and Kennedy should be easy.  No Fighting Hawk logo on the REA ice for the remaineder of the contract with a stipulation that the Betty court will be changed to include a Fighting Hawk.  Also reduce the REA’s share of football ticket money to just the handling fee.

[Oxbow6]

Revenue in MBB and FB needs to increase.....period. However anyone wants to make that happen I'm all for it.

[UND-FB-FAN]

  On 5/17/2018 at 10:49 PM, Oxbow6 said:

Revenue in MBB and FB needs to increase.....period. However anyone wants to make that happen I'm all for it.

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 Impossible for the University of North Dakota to make that happen though, right?  It would have to be from an outside donor apparently.  No way the available funds internally could be renegotiated and redistributed, right? Some people have really strange views on how collegiate athletics work; the extraordinarily rare gift of the REA has really skewed people's ability to understand this.

[Oxbow6]

  On 5/17/2018 at 10:53 PM, UND-FB-FAN said:

 Impossible for the University of North Dakota to make that happen though, right?  It would have to be from an outside donor apparently.  No way the available funds internally could be renegotiated and redistributed, right? Some people have really strange views on how collegiate athletics work; the extraordinarily rare gift of the REA has really skewed people's ability to understand this.

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Impossible.......not at all. How about figuring out how to continually put a product on the field and court that makes fans want to buy a ticket and attend...i.e. MBB and FB. Hockey does it....although this past season was rough. That would be a good start and we could go from there. I do agree there needs to be some renegotiations as to dollars and their redistribution but at some point the FB and MBB programs do need to take the lead in carving out their own way financially.

[nodak651]

  On 5/17/2018 at 11:04 PM, Oxbow6 said:

Impossible.......not at all. How about figuring out how to continually put a product on the field and court that makes fans want to buy a ticket and attend...i.e. MBB and FB. Hockey does it....although this past season was rough. That would be a good start and we could go from there. I do agree there needs to be some renegotiations as to dollars and their redistribution but at some point the FB and MBB programs do need to take the lead in carving out their own way financially.

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Both FB and MBB have such a low budget they they lose assistants to peer institutions (FB 1, MBB 2).  How can you honestly expect them to compete if they don't even pay their coaches enough to stay at UND, and not move to another school within their own conference?  How would hockey do if we lost someone like Brad Berry to Duluth before Hak left?  

[Oxbow6]

  On 5/17/2018 at 11:30 PM, nodak651 said:

Both FB and MBB have such a low budget they they lose assistants to peer institutions (FB 1, MBB 2).  How can you honestly expect them to compete if they don't even pay their coaches enough to stay at UND, and not move to another school within their own conference?  How would hockey do if we lost someone like Brad Berry to Duluth, before Hak left?  

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 Very valid points but at what point are those 2 sports somewhat responsible for generating revenue? 

[nodak651]

  On 5/17/2018 at 11:45 PM, Oxbow6 said:

 Very valid points but at what point are those 2 sports somewhat responsible for generating revenue? 

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Football does generate revenue, but the Ralph takes over half of it, apparently.

[nodak651]

  On 5/17/2018 at 7:52 PM, jdub27 said:

Here is 2017's information:

Note that this is an oversimplification
The REA got $2.4 million in revenue, another $769,000 in advertising revenue, $247,000 for box office revenue and charged UND another $1.1 million to UND for other expenses, so basically earned $4.5 million in revenue related to UND (not including concessions/merchandise shop/etc). 

UND got $2.2 million in ticket revenue, $432,000 in advertising revenue and $750,000 in "extra revenue".  Net effect, UND saw $3.4 million in revenues before paying the REA $1.3 million for a net of around $2 million.

I'm having a hard time with the $1.1 million charged to UND for "utilities, maintenance staff, phone service and other expenses" without knowing all the details behind it. Seems like that should be covered in the "rent" payment. That is separate from the REA getting a cut of football ticket revenue. Even if these numbers are close, I can see why UND is asking for the contract to be looked at. 

This also paints a bit of a different picture than what KEM made it look like when she said UND should sign the usage agreement and sit back and collect their check. UND is doing plenty of heavy lifting.

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And this doesn't even count food and drinks, right?  Which UND gets none of?

[jdub27]

  On 5/17/2018 at 11:45 PM, Oxbow6 said:

 Very valid points but at what point are those 2 sports somewhat responsible for generating revenue? 

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Can you give me one way the current usage agreement with the REA is beneficial to the football program? They pay rent at the Alerus Center and give 52% of their ticket revenue to the REA. Plus I think they get dinged for some of the expenses to run the HPC. The REA has a lot of money in reserves, I'm having a hard time buying that they continue to need football ticket revenue or that they ever should have to begin with. 

I concede the basketball program is benefiting but it's fair to point out the exposure potential is greater than anything on campus and it's not really close.

[geaux_sioux]

  On 5/17/2018 at 11:45 PM, Oxbow6 said:

 Very valid points but at what point are those 2 sports somewhat responsible for generating revenue? 

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Hasn’t a point been made that UND hockey wouldn’t be where it is without a massive gift?

[Oxbow6]

  On 5/18/2018 at 12:12 AM, jdub27 said:

Can you give me one way the current usage agreement with the REA is beneficial to the football program? They pay rent at the Alerus Center and give 52% of their ticket revenue to the REA. Plus I think they get dinged for some of the expenses to run the HPC. The REA has a lot of money in reserves, I'm having a hard time buying that they continue to need football ticket revenue or that they ever should have to begin with. 

I concede the basketball program is benefiting but it's fair to point out the exposure potential is greater than anything on campus. 

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It's not beneficial towards FB.....not here to argue that. The current agreement should be renegotiated but even under the current agreement, that been in place for awhile, it's not like FB has come close to maxing out it's revenue generating capabilities. 

Correct on your MBB take but BJ has not done much to build a program for exposure sake minus the one NCCA game and not sure what bump that gave the university as a whole.

  On 5/18/2018 at 12:16 AM, geaux_sioux said:

Hasn’t a point been made that UND hockey wouldn’t be where it is without a massive gift?

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To the extent that it is now? Most likely not but it still would be the highest revenue generating sport at UND today even with a revamped old Ralph.

[nodak651]

  On 5/18/2018 at 12:26 AM, Oxbow6 said:

It's not beneficial towards FB.....not here to argue that. The current agreement should be renegotiated but even under the current agreement, that been in place for awhile, it's not like FB has come close to maxing out it's revenue generating capabilities. 

Correct on your MBB take but BJ has not done much to build a program for exposure sake minus the one NCCA game and not sure what bump that gave the university as a whole.

To the extent that it is now most likely not but it still would be the highest revenue generating sport at UND today even with a revamped old Ralph.

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Would it, though?  The place was a dump.  We wouldn't have the same quality of recruits coming in, and with worse teams, it is unlikely that the thing would sell out every game like the Ralph does. 

Without the Ralph, football could also have been more popular with students, as they wouldn't have be comparing it to the Palace that the hockey arena is.  Football would have less competition for people's ticket budget.

[Oxbow6]

  On 5/18/2018 at 12:31 AM, nodak651 said:

Would it, though?  The place was a dump.  We wouldn't have the same quality of recruits coming in, and with worse teams, it is unlikely that the thing would sell out every game like the Ralph does. 

Without the Ralph, football could also have been more popular with students, as they wouldn't have be comparing it to the Palace that the hockey arena is.  Football would have less competition for people's ticket budget.

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Plausible but not likely. GF is a hockey town........or so I've been told.

[Oxbow6]

  On 5/17/2018 at 10:49 PM, SiouxVolley said:

The tax returns don’t show that the REA Foundation is getting a charitable donation from the REA arena.  One has to accuse all those boards of tax evasion or charitable fraud for that to be happening.

An agreement between McGarry and Kennedy should be easy.  No Fighting Hawk logo on the REA ice for the remaineder of the contract with a stipulation that the Betty court will be changed to include a Fighting Hawk.  Also reduce the REA’s share of football ticket money to just the handling fee.

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Can I buy you a plane ticket to Vegas to arbitrate their meeting?

[geaux_sioux]

  On 5/18/2018 at 12:26 AM, Oxbow6 said:

It's not beneficial towards FB.....not here to argue that. The current agreement should be renegotiated but even under the current agreement, that been in place for awhile, it's not like FB has come close to maxing out it's revenue generating capabilities. 

Correct on your MBB take but BJ has not done much to build a program for exposure sake minus the one NCCA game and not sure what bump that gave the university as a whole.

To the extent that it is now? Most likely not but it still would be the highest revenue generating sport at UND today even with a revamped old Ralph.

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Not so sure about that. It would be close I would guess. My point is, hockey was not self sufficient to get to where there are and football in particular would be way better off if they got to keep their other half mill a year to work with.

[snova4]

  On 5/18/2018 at 12:49 AM, geaux_sioux said:

Not so sure about that. It would be close I would guess. My point is, hockey was not self sufficient to get to where there are and football in particular would be way better off if they got to keep their other half mill a year to work with.

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 Well, there's a clear answer here then. Shutter the hockey program. It's obvious that only if the rest of the sports could use that budget, and we cut ties with the palace on the prairie, the other programs will start winning natties. 

[nodak651]

  On 5/18/2018 at 12:46 AM, Oxbow6 said:

Plausible but not likely. GF is a hockey town........or so I've been told.

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To clarify, I meant that football would have been more popular with students than it currently is.  Wasn't claiming that it definitively would have been more popular with the students than hockey.

[UND1983]

  On 5/18/2018 at 12:56 AM, snova4 said:

 Well, there's a clear answer here then. Shutter the hockey program. It's obvious that only if the rest of the sports could use that budget, and we cut ties with the palace on the prairie, the other programs will start winning natties. 

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Nah, they already axed one. Let the other one be. 

[darell1976]

  On 5/18/2018 at 12:56 AM, snova4 said:

 Well, there's a clear answer here then. Shutter the hockey program. It's obvious that only if the rest of the sports could use that budget, and we cut ties with the palace on the prairie, the other programs will start winning natties. 

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Since 2001 when the REA was built they have managed 1 national title (2016) in 17 years of existence. UND won 5 National Titles from 1980-2000 in the old REA/Winter Sports Center. Let that little fact sink in about where our program would be without the gift from Ralph, and how hockey can’t survive without people like Kris McGarry, and the REA Foundation. 

UND hockey was a powerhouse before the palace was built and will be a powerhouse after UND takes it over.

[Fetch]

I did see 2 older gentleman wearing Little White Dove hats this past week 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

  On 5/18/2018 at 2:39 AM, Fetch said:

I did see 2 older gentleman wearing Little White Dove hats this past week 

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There's white hope, then.

Defined as "any person who is expected to bring honor, glory, etc. to some group, place, etc."

[Siouxphan27]

  On 5/18/2018 at 2:39 AM, Fetch said:

I did see 2 older gentleman wearing Little White Dove hats this past week 

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That's the Power of Love. 

[Blackheart]

  On 5/18/2018 at 12:31 AM, nodak651 said:

Would it, though?  The place was a dump.  We wouldn't have the same quality of recruits coming in, and with worse teams, it is unlikely that the thing would sell out every game like the Ralph does. 

Without the Ralph, football could also have been more popular with students, as they wouldn't have be comparing it to the Palace that the hockey arena is.  Football would have less competition for people's ticket budget.

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A dump?  Yeah,  it wasn't as fancy as the new Ralph but half the seating was for students and the atmosphere in there was crazy in the 80's and saw a big resurgence during Deano's tenure.  Sorry, but I was at a lot of games there in the 80's and it was way crazier than the new place...Pull your head out Junior!