Kennedy vs. Engelstad Foundation: GF herald feature

[darell1976]

1 hour ago, petey23 said:

Just pointing out how we got here. I am by no means saying we should go back and restart Kelly's clusterf*ck of a plan. We have a name, lets figure out a way to be able to market and brand it. I know that corporate customers who are co-branding UND don't want the Hawk logo and retail is requesting items and art without it as well. In simple terms, it isn't selling now and in all likelihood won't sell in the future.

So sales is slow on a 2 year logo that represents a school whose fanbase is strongly divided in supporting a new brand versus supporting the past name and logo so we should scrap the whole thing because Petey says it won’t sell in the future. Have you contacted UND about this? What did they say about your findings? Cause your opinion smells worse than the research farms at NDSU.

[petey23]

2 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Don’t you?..... nope

Besides your love for the Bison logo.....strong endorsement saying their logo doesn't suck

you haven’t provided a Fighting Hawks logo that people would like.....not my job

The interlocking ND is the logo of choice to appease the no nickname crowd.....yep, that is what we talk about in our secret meetings, we must have a leak. I am guessing it is gfhockey. I have said many times I am fine with the new nickname but you seem to miss the point over and over and over again.

, so people like Edgewood or is it Rose Creek.....so clever, mentality of a child

would be satisfied with so I figured that would be your answer to a new logo...…...you should probably do less figuring. figuring usually involves thinking and that isn't a strong point for you.

Holy crap. Just go ahead and take a sh!t on the chess board and fly away.

[UNDColorado]

1 hour ago, 90siouxfan said:

I think they were all NDSU alumni...

Almost! One person who wrote a letter to the editor was a Minnesota alum living in Grafton. 

[petey23]

16 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Chicken or egg? 

It has not been put out there so folks don't see it and associate it with UND so they don't buy it
or
It is out there and folks are not buying it so retail chooses to do as you claim. 

Can we make a causality claim here? 

Fair questions. This is a message board where people have opinions. 

I think the logo has been pushed by UND and they are getting pushback from independent retailers. Also the UND alum who own businesses and business owners who want to co-brand with the Flagship University want the apparel, promo items, etc. that they give to customers to be worn and not shoved in a drawer or laying on the bottom of someone's closet. I am not sure how many hats Hugo's gave away at a hockey game last year but 100's were left to swept up with the empty beer cups and candy wrappers.

I am sure UND would like to get paid royalties on items that aren't going right to the clearance rack.

[Shawn-O]

12 minutes ago, petey23 said:

Holy crap. Just go ahead and take a sh!t on the chess board and fly away.

[darell1976]

21 minutes ago, petey23 said:

Holy crap. Just go ahead and take a sh!t on the chess board and fly away.

You say I have the mentality of a child when you created a thread to name me the Fighting Hawks mascot. I guess I took a page out of your playbook.

[petey23]

10 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

You say I have the mentality of a child when you created a thread to name me the Fighting Hawks mascot. I guess I took a page out of your playbook.

 

[SiouxVolley]

The Kennedy-McGarry ruckus got the attention of the AP and ABC News now.

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/dispute-highlights-north-dakotas-tough-sell-nickname-55393733

[sprig]

37 minutes ago, petey23 said:

Fair questions. This is a message board where people have opinions. 

I think the logo has been pushed by UND and they are getting pushback from independent retailers. Also the UND alum who own businesses and business owners who want to co-brand with the Flagship University want the apparel, promo items, etc. that they give to customers to be worn and not shoved in a drawer or laying on the bottom of someone's closet. I am not sure how many hats Hugo's gave away at a hockey game last year but 100's were left to swept up with the empty beer cups and candy wrappers.

I am sure UND would like to get paid royalties on items that aren't going right to the clearance rack.

Same as free headbands in the betty

[UND1983]

2 hours ago, petey23 said:

Just pointing out how we got here. I am by no means saying we should go back and restart Kelly's clusterf*ck of a plan. We have a name, lets figure out a way to be able to market and brand it. I know that corporate customers who are co-branding UND don't want the Hawk logo and retail is requesting items and art without it as well. In simple terms, it isn't selling now and in all likelihood won't sell in the future.

What would the winning logo look like? 

[darell1976]

5 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

What would the winning logo look like? 

He said it’s not his job to provide an acceptable logo, but it is his job to bitch about the current one and say we need a new one that people will like. 

[Siouxphan27]

 Anyone recall about 20 years ago when NDSU came out with that 'scream yellow' campaign?   It was an epic failure and hilarious to UND fans, who referred to it as Stream Yellow.

 There were even news stories about it mentioning how much they spent on this failure of a campaign.   But they actually had the vision down there to just scrap it, despite what it cost  because they realized the long-term damage of stubbornly keeping it and trying to force it on people would be greater than what it cost. 

 I feel our logo situation is quite similar. Hopefully those in charge  at UND have some vision and make a change sooner rather than later.  Or as mentioned earlier, do a secondary logo.  Immediately. 

[UND1983]

1 minute ago, Siouxphan27 said:

 Anyone recall about 20 years ago when NDSU came out with that 'scream yellow' campaign?   It was an epic failure and hilarious to UND fans, who referred to it as Stream Yellow.

 There were even news stories about it mentioning how much they spent on this failure of a campaign.   But they actually had the vision down there to just scrap it, despite what it cost  because they realized the long-term damage of stubbornly keeping it and trying to force it on people would be greater than what it cost. 

 I feel our logo situation is quite similar. Hopefully those in charge  at UND have some vision and make a change sooner rather than later.  Or as mentioned earlier, do a secondary logo.  Immediately. 

I get it but not the same.  Universities have a new slogan/campaign for their sports every year.  That dog was going to be shot regardless.

[ChesterFritz90]

45 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The Kennedy-McGarry ruckus got the attention of the AP and ABC News now.

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/dispute-highlights-north-dakotas-tough-sell-nickname-55393733

Lol, the "attention of the AP" is merely Kolpack writing a story from his couch in Fargo, and it being posted to ABC News is an auto-generated page from any stories posted to the AP Newswire. There wasn't anyone from AP or ABC News headquarters who saw this and thought it was a big story.

[UND1983]

Yes, UND can add a secondary logo and probably should.  A more detailed bird, for instance.

[The Sicatoka]

You can not make someone happy.
You can make them laugh.
You can make them smile. 
But happy is a choice they make. 

You can not make someone happy. 

That said,
and more importantly,

You can not make everyone happy. 

[The Sicatoka]

Was I happy on August 5, 2005? No. I knew what was coming: 2012. 

Was I happy that something generic (bird) was the choice? No, but I could see it coming. 

Did I figure generic begets generic when it comes to a logo? Yes. Was I happy? No. 

 

All that said, when I hear "Fighting Hawks" or see the new logo I'm happy.

Why? 

No more nonsensical news stories about how the old name causes this, that, or the other. 
No more grandstanding "protesters" when we go on the road.
No more having to listen to pontifications by Jeanotte-heads. 
No more NCAA threats.

So, amongst all that unhappy, I found my happy in this outcome. 

So yeah, I see that name and log and I smile because I found happy in unhappy. 

[Oxbow6]

45 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

You can not make someone happy.
You can make them laugh.
You can make them smile. 
But happy is a choice they make. 

You can not make someone happy. 

That said,
and more importantly,

You can not make everyone happy. 

 

33 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Was I happy on August 5, 2005? No. I knew what was coming: 2012. 

Was I happy that something generic (bird) was the choice? No, but I could see it coming. 

Did I figure generic begets generic when it comes to a logo? Yes. Was I happy? No. 

 

All that said, when I hear "Fighting Hawks" or see the new logo I'm happy.

Why? 

No more nonsensical news stories about how the old name causes this, that, or the other. 
No more grandstanding "protesters" when we go on the road.
No more having to listen to pontifications by Jeanotte-heads. 
No more NCAA threats.

So, amongst all that unhappy, I found my happy in this outcome. 

So yeah, I see that name and log and I smile because I found happy in unhappy. 

I think I cracked the code! 

 

The Sicatoka is really....................

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

10 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Form 990 shows it all.
Page 1 of each shows Activities and Governance, Revenues, Expenses, and Net. 

So where does it show the annual $ spent to pay the bond on The Betty?

[Siouxphan27]

3 hours ago, UND1983 said:

I get it but not the same.  Universities have a new slogan/campaign for their sports every year.  That dog was going to be shot regardless.

Wasn't the same as just a yearly slogan. It was a major branding attempt that failed.  

[Siouxperman8]

5 hours ago, petey23 said:

Fair questions. This is a message board where people have opinions. 

I think the logo has been pushed by UND and they are getting pushback from independent retailers. Also the UND alum who own businesses and business owners who want to co-brand with the Flagship University want the apparel, promo items, etc. that they give to customers to be worn and not shoved in a drawer or laying on the bottom of someone's closet. I am not sure how many hats Hugo's gave away at a hockey game last year but 100's were left to swept up with the empty beer cups and candy wrappers.

I am sure UND would like to get paid royalties on items that aren't going right to the clearance rack.

I think the fact that the hockey team (and therefore the hockey fans) have rejected the name and logo plays into this too.  Hockey is the highest profile sport at UND and it makes sense that a majority of business owners that co-brand with UND are banking on the hockey team.  They know the hockey crowd (in general) won't embrace anything with the Hawks logo on it.

[Oxbow6]

7 hours ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I think the fact that the hockey team (and therefore the hockey fans) have rejected the name and logo plays into this too.  Hockey is the highest profile sport at UND and it makes sense that a majority of business owners that co-brand with UND are banking on the hockey team.  They know the hockey crowd (in general) won't embrace anything with the Hawks logo on it.

I'll agree with this (in general) so then UND should not dismiss that large fanbase they are trying to market and rebrand to. The "hockey crowd" is the largest sports fanbase UND has that will drop money on apparel and merchandise. This "you're going to like it or else" mentality many of you present here isn't working and it's not working for UND either.  Again for many it's not a nickname issue, even though it was a safe and generic pick, as the ship has sailed but it's a logo issue. To me that's fixable.

.......and for 1983 I don't have the perfect logo design but all I know is this current one isn't working.

[UND-FB-FAN]

15 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

I'll agree with this (in general) so then UND should not dismiss that large fanbase they are trying to market and rebrand to. The "hockey crowd" is the largest sports fanbase UND has that will drop money on apparel and merchandise. This "you're going to like it or else" mentality many of you present here isn't working and it's not working for UND either.  Again for many it's not a nickname issue, even though it was a safe and generic pick, as the ship has sailed but it's a logo issue. To me that's fixable.

.......and for 1983 I don't have the perfect logo design but all I know is this current one isn't working.

UND, as is most of North Dakota and the Midwest, is surrounded by folks who need A LOT of time to digest everything and move on. Traditions run deep. As such, the nickname/logo acceptance and utilization situation really is just a situation that requires more time. I think the process would be expedited if the Ralph Engelstad Arena would showcase the logo and new nickname more, as their implied resistance undoubtedly influences the conservative crowd that denies change. Unfortunately, a large number of the people who dislike the new logo and nickname do so in context of the old logo and nickname, which just isn't coming back. Only time (and subtle influences to soothe the unconscious bias) around the new logo and nickname will change this.

A more detailed Fighting Hawks logo would not completely solve the current issue with acceptability and utilization of the new nickname/logo, but it could help. Many would certainly be disgusted with any amount of additional time and money spent on further logo development. 

[jdub27]

On 5/21/2018 at 12:46 PM, SiouxVolley said:

Fb was included in the REA’s take to help pay for the Betty bonds, IMHO, to make that work.

Now if UND is being gifted a new fb stadium at Ray Richards, Kennedy would be negligent not to demand less fb take by the REA.

But I’m just an idiot according to posters here. 

How does selling that land for development play into this?

[Siouxperman8]

1 hour ago, Oxbow6 said:

I'll agree with this (in general) so then UND should not dismiss that large fanbase they are trying to market and rebrand to. The "hockey crowd" is the largest sports fanbase UND has that will drop money on apparel and merchandise. This "you're going to like it or else" mentality many of you present here isn't working and it's not working for UND either.  Again for many it's not a nickname issue, even though it was a safe and generic pick, as the ship has sailed but it's a logo issue. To me that's fixable.

.......and for 1983 I don't have the perfect logo design but all I know is this current one isn't working.

That’s fair but don’t underestimate the impact of the hockey staff not buying into the new name and logo.  The hockey crowd is taking a lot of their direction from them.  Most coaches got on board early and tried to make the best of the situation and that helped with acceptance by those fans and at those games.  Berry was noticeably silent. A little chicken and egg going on here again.