Downtown Grand Forks

[geaux_sioux]

Just now, TheFlop said:

Because if Fargo does it Grand Forks needs to do it too.  People live in different towns for reasons.  Many people choose to live in Grand Forks because it isn't Minneapolis or Fargo.

Same climate and it works. In other words, the snow excuse doesn't hold. And you're crazy if you don't want GF's downtown to experience a renaissance on the level of Fargo's downtown the last 10 years.

[Wildfan]

6 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

I guess I've never really seen the need for a south-end bridge.  Wouldn't it just be a bridge to nowhere, as there's nothing developed on the Minnesota side?  Would it just be a truck bypass?  My first priority would be a 42nd St under/overpass at the railroad.

Lessens congestion on the downtown bridge and the curvy bridge by the fork that can be nasty in the winter. Truck bypass also can cone into play. 

Just because nothing is there yet doesn't mean it would stay that way. If a bridge would've been at 32nd ave I believe you would've seen EGF development there. No one wants to build where there is less access, and the 2 main artiries through EGF are limited to build on until you get further from the river

[petey23]

38 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Same climate and it works. In other words, the snow excuse doesn't hold. And you're crazy if you don't want GF's downtown to experience a renaissance on the level of Fargo's downtown the last 10 years.

Depends.

I live in South Fargo and other than my work taking me to other parts of the Fargo-Moorhead area, I rarely get north of 13th Ave. South, let alone Main Avenue. It gets frustrating to see every available nickel or tax incentive spent on some pet project because it is downtown....Downtown Fargo is pretty cool but a big reason for it's popularity is because that is where the city has put all of it's resources.

[TheFlop]

33 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Same climate and it works. In other words, the snow excuse doesn't hold. And you're crazy if you don't want GF's downtown to experience a renaissance on the level of Fargo's downtown the last 10 years.

For every person that wants to go downtown there are 10 that don't want to deal with it....in Fargo and Grand Forks.  I'm not saying no one enjoys the crammed in feel of it, but it's niche......a small but vocal minority of a niche.  All of Fargo has grown....not just downtown.....and strip out the handouts and it would be interesting to see if downtown Fargo looks the way it does.  The same urbanists that always want to point out "wasted" space in suburban areas.....never want to point to the empty bike racks....bike paths....and pedestrian sidewalks when it is below zero and snowy.

 

 

[UNDBIZ]

Does anyone find the sidewalks downtown currently to be uncomfortable?

[dmksioux]

20 minutes ago, TheFlop said:

For every person that wants to go downtown there are 10 that don't want to deal with it....in Fargo and Grand Forks.  I'm not saying no one enjoys the crammed in feel of it, but it's niche......a small but vocal minority of a niche.  All of Fargo has grown....not just downtown.....and strip out the handouts and it would be interesting to see if downtown Fargo looks the way it does.  The same urbanists that always want to point out "wasted" space in suburban areas.....never want to point to the empty bike racks....bike paths....and pedestrian sidewalks when it is below zero and snowy.

 

 

Not to get into the debate about the curb cut outs because I agree that they probably aren’t needed downtown.  But as someone who uses the greenway, year round, you might be surprised as to how much use it gets by bicycle riders, walkers, skier's and runners in the winters.  I run in the early morning and often am not the only person out there.  Also see plenty of footprints/bike tracks after newly fallen snow.  Both GF and especially EGF do a great job of keeping the bike paths clear during the winter, which is much appreciated.

[Cratter]

I have sadly yet to see one person using the Freezeway.

The ice looks poorly kept everytime I drive by.

[Wildfan]

7 minutes ago, Cratter said:

I have sadly yet to see one person using the Freezeway.

The ice looks poorly kept everytime I drive by.

I haven't seen it in person, but I know they had the promoters of it on KNOX last week, and said they never had it's grand opening or put any more in the Herald about it due to unforseen problems they had all season with tarps tearing, and maintenance through the storms.

[dmksioux]

13 minutes ago, Cratter said:

I have sadly yet to see one person using the Freezeway.

The ice looks poorly kept everytime I drive by.

The freezeway is a whole other story.  To me, they have a huge freezeway with the river.  Just groom a nice path on there once the ice is thick enough instead of trying to turn the greenway into a "freezeway."  

Also, they had all types of issues with setting up the freezeway.  It ended up breaking and spilling the water all over the bike paths, which in turn became a skating rink themselves. Huge waste of money in my opininon.  

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

26 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Does anyone find the sidewalks downtown currently to be uncomfortable?

Only when it's below freezing.

[northernraider]

9 minutes ago, dmksioux said:

The freezeway is a whole other story.  To me, they have a huge freezeway with the river.  Just groom a nice path on there once the ice is thick enough instead of trying to turn the greenway into a "freezeway."  

Also, they had all types of issues with setting up the freezeway.  It ended up breaking and spilling the water all over the bike paths, which in turn became a skating rink themselves. Huge waste of money in my opininon.  

This Winnipeg uses the Red River as a freezeway with warming huts, activities, hockey rink, and all kinds of stuff. 

[dmksioux]

5 minutes ago, northernraider said:

This Winnipeg uses the Red River as a freezeway with warming huts, activities, hockey rink, and all kinds of stuff. 

Exactly.  Rope off/flag an area of the river and use it for whatever.  The river is an under utilized amenity.  It won’t ever become a recreational river like the Missouri River in Bismarck, but there are still opportunities GF could take advantage of.  

[gfhockey]

Crookston also does 

 

nice waste of grant money 

 

where does grant money come from?

[dmksioux]

It appears as thought the Winnipeg skating rinks, trails, etc on the Red River at the Forks has had a record breaking year.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4561728

This is what the group that tried setting up the Freezeway should be looking to emulate here.  Use the area between the Sorlie and Point bridge.  Have hockey rinks, skating trail, sledding area, warming houses etc.  if it takes off, then think about expanding a longer freezeway.  Just my 2 cents.

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, TheFlop said:

For every person that wants to go downtown there are 10 that don't want to deal with it....in Fargo and Grand Forks.  I'm not saying no one enjoys the crammed in feel of it, but it's niche......a small but vocal minority of a niche.  All of Fargo has grown....not just downtown.....and strip out the handouts and it would be interesting to see if downtown Fargo looks the way it does.  The same urbanists that always want to point out "wasted" space in suburban areas.....never want to point to the empty bike racks....bike paths....and pedestrian sidewalks when it is below zero and snowy.

 

 

If you want to attract and, more importantly, retain, young talent to a town you need to have a strong downtown with all the bells and whistles. 

[Cratter]

15 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

If you want to attract and, more importantly, retain, young talent to a town you need to have a strong downtown with all the bells and whistles. 

and a city that's easy to drive around in.

First thing anyone notices in Grand Forks right now is all the potholes they have to avoid trying to get downtown.

[geaux_sioux]

2 minutes ago, Cratter said:

and a city that's easy to drive around in.

Easy to find a place to park yes. Downtowns should be planned around the movement of people first. Cars second. That's not to say the entirety of downtown should be biking paths and closed off streets with no traffic. There's a balance, and right now it's tipped too far towards cars.

[Cratter]

Speaking of downtowns, You sure do have to look hard to find Bismarck's....usually stumbling upon it by accident.

[petey23]

14 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

If you want to attract and, more importantly, retain, young talent to a town you need to have a strong downtown with all the bells and whistles. 

Doesn't all have to be downtown.

http://www.simon.com/mall/coconut-point/dining

https://www.gulfcoasttowncenter.com/directory/

https://www.thebelltowershops.com/directory/dining-and-entertainment/2138210030

https://www.visittampabay.com/listings/international-plaza-and-bay-street/2891/

https://yborcityonline.com/

These are popping up slowly in Fargo and West Fargo but seemingly at the cost of private developers while anyone who wants to open anything downtown gets incentives. Fargo is about 4-5 miles wide and 8 miles long and yet it seems like 85% of any city investment goes to a 5 block by 8 block area.

 

[UND1983]

2 hours ago, UNDBIZ said:

Does anyone find the sidewalks downtown currently to be uncomfortable?

All the business owners that want a free face lift and shot in the arm.

[Big Lubowski]

3 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

All the business owners that want a free face lift and shot in the arm.

Did you see anything about business owners lobbying for this? Yeah, they’re always getting something for free. 

[geaux_sioux]

43 minutes ago, petey23 said:

Doesn't all have to be downtown.

http://www.simon.com/mall/coconut-point/dining

https://www.gulfcoasttowncenter.com/directory/

https://www.thebelltowershops.com/directory/dining-and-entertainment/2138210030

https://www.visittampabay.com/listings/international-plaza-and-bay-street/2891/

https://yborcityonline.com/

These are popping up slowly in Fargo and West Fargo but seemingly at the cost of private developers while anyone who wants to open anything downtown gets incentives. Fargo is about 4-5 miles wide and 8 miles long and yet it seems like 85% of any city investment goes to a 5 block by 8 block area.

 

1

There's nothing wrong with constructing a new district in a town. Grand Forks' downtown is chocked full of potential which is why I feel strongly about further developing it. One huge issue with the examples you gave is that nobody lives there. We don't need malls. Malls are dying because they're stale. A new district with shops and offices and restaurants can only work properly if it incorporates residential spaces. There are a couple locations in Grand Forks that could support this type of development.  

[UNDBIZ]

1 hour ago, Cratter said:

Speaking of downtowns, You sure do have to look hard to find Bismarck's....usually stumbling upon it by accident.

Bismarck is an incredibly poorly planned city. Downtown has come a long way in the last 10 years though. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

2 hours ago, Cratter said:

I have sadly yet to see one person using the Freezeway.

The ice looks poorly kept everytime I drive by.

i walk by that about four times a week ...haven't seen one person all year...plus when the weather got a little warm the water would run out from underneath and trickle downhill toward the river...so bad that they had to close one the bikepaths just east of it because it was a mini lake/river of water/ice...

[UND1983]

32 minutes ago, Big Lubowski said:

Did you see anything about business owners lobbying for this? Yeah, they’re always getting something for free. 

Easy big downtown business owner.