UND to cut women's hockey

[mksioux]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

As someone stated here yesterday: Be careful tossing around "Title IX". 

UND was unbalanced for M/F participation before baseball was cut. UND had too many FEMALE athletes. Then they cut baseball making bad worse. 

UND was prime for a Title IX suit ... from MALE athletes. 

That is absolutely true, but far too few people actually know that.  

We can criticize the Herald for not properly covering it.  That's fair game and I've done it.  But let's not forget that transparency should demand that a public institution should make this information more accessible, and to actually talk about it and explain it.  Faison stumbled around the Title IX issue at the press conference, but he didn't directly address it head-on.  He didn't make it known that UND had a Title IX problem from the men prior to this decision.  I know it's impolite to talk about unflattering numbers when you are cutting a sport, but I always prefer clarity and facts.  Explain your decision in a way that is concise and direct.  You don't need to take shots at the program, but be honest and transparent about why it was cut.  Don't beat around the bush. Explain that any other alternative would have resulted in more female athletes losing opportunities.  Don't let false narratives take over.  Faison was a little better on the radio this morning, but still fell short in my opinion.

[CMSioux]

I blame the Millenials (and Mussman). 

[SWSiouxMN]

12 minutes ago, CMSioux said:

I blame the Millenials (and Mussman). 

Why do we get blamed, I'm offended!

Is that how that works?

[Cratter]

3 hours ago, gfhockey said:

In the article on idalski it said he wasn't really caught off guard

Heard on the radio this morning something to the effect of a coach told one of the recruits women's hockey could be cut.

[CMSioux]

11 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

Why do we get blamed, I'm offended!

Is that how that works?

(just a joke). social media has changed social discussion, no need for facts just blame "the man" and start a petition. 

[geaux_sioux]

2 hours ago, Old Time Hockey said:

I define Championship level programs as those that have a legitimate chance at winning a national championship.  Not winning a Slummit League or a Big Sky league.

Does Oregon have a legitimate chance at winning a football championship?  Yep

Does Gonzaga have a legitimate chance at winning a basketball championship?  Yep

Does UND honestly have a chance in any sport aside from hockey?  Except for the football long shot, none come close!

If someone from outside the area asks you about the UND basketball team, and you reply that we are a championship level program because we won the big sky, you get laughed out of the bar.

Its not the reason I am disappointed the WH program was cut, but it was the only other sport aside from MH that had a legitimate chance at a national championship.  What really bothers me is that it impacts girls hockey into the youth level.  Girls hockey is still a relatively new sport.  When UND cut the program, it was kind of a slap in the face to all girls that play hockey in the area.  While very, very few girls would actually would play for UND, the dream and role models were there for the local kids.

What I still don't understand is how Bemidji, St Cloud, and Duluth can make it work, but we can't?

The softball team travels much more.  Do they have that many less scholarships?  Are they coaches paid much less?  

Could the WH program made cuts to get them in a better position?

Legit title contender equals 2 tournament appearances in 15 years with 0 wins? They were a contender with the twins. Lightning will not be in a bottle like that again and people still didn't attend those games. 

[UNDBIZ]

Is Schloss auditioning for TMZ??  I thought he used to be a quality writer, but now his "articles" consist of copied and pasted twitter rants.

[The Sicatoka]

16 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

... but now his "articles" consist of copied and pasted twitter rants.

[Herd]

2 hours ago, cberkas said:

From my understanding is Bemidji St., St. Cloud, and Duluth have to have a women's D1 team because they have a men's D1 team.

If any of the DII schools in MN actually went DI (not just in the hockies) they would face massive athletic restructuring and budget issues.  They would need to make major changes ala Omaha.  Unds changes from 21 to 16 serve to reinforce this fact.

[The Sicatoka]

6 minutes ago, Herd said:

If any of the DII schools in MN actually went DI (not just in the hockies) they would face massive athletic restructuring and budget issues.  They would need to make major changes ala Omaha.  Unds changes from 21 to 16 serve to reinforce this fact.

Yes, agree. We forget Omaha went DI (Summit) and dropped FB and 3x defending national champs duh-wrassin'*. 

However, it's not 16, it's 17 (with men's golf on life support). 

 

*You bring "teh hockies" and you get "duh-wrassin'".  

[siouxkid12]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

Yes, agree. We forget Omaha went DI (Summit) and dropped FB and 3x defending national champs duh-wrassin'*. 

However, it's not 16, it's 17 (with men's golf on life support). 

 

*You bring "teh hockies" and you get "duh-wrassin'".  

technically, yes it is 17 but men's golf is self funded.

[The Sicatoka]

Just now, siouxkid12 said:

technically, yes it is 17 but men's golf is self funded.

The NCAA would count UND as 17. 
UND is funding 16. 
So, yes. 

[Old Time Hockey]

55 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Legit title contender equals 2 tournament appearances in 15 years with 0 wins? They were a contender with the twins. Lightning will not be in a bottle like that again and people still didn't attend those games. 

2 appearances in 15 years, with a program that just started.  We can debate if Idalski was the right guy another time, but that fact is, bouncy ball will always just be a cute little program that will be measured by getting into a tournament that will have them be a whipping post to a far superior team.  Oh yeah, I forgot..... we get to do that with a 1.4 million audience.

 

[CMSioux]

So do we assume the "Save WH" group understands that saving WH means cutting at least 4-5 other sports which means having no conference affiliation for any sports except hockey? You don't save $1.3 million by removing chocolate milk from the dining hall and at the end of the day academic funding is more important than a sport. It sucks but it's reality. 

[The Sicatoka]

The 2015 numbers I have (source given previously) says to cut nominally (within $100k of Expenses) what they cut by cutting WIH, MSD, WSD, they'd have to cut:

- WGolf, MTen, WTen, MIT&F, MOT&F, WIT&F, WOT&F, MCC, WCC, and Volleyball. 

Then again, if it's just hit that dollar amount (of WIH, MSD, WSD), 

- MSD, WSD, MTen, WTen, MIT&F, MOT&F, WIT&F, WOT&F, MCC, WCC. 

Yes, I'm saying nominally WIH cost the same as MTen, WTen, MIT&F, MOT&F, WIT&F, WOT&F, MCC, WCC. 

[UND1983]

10 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said:

2 appearances in 15 years, with a program that just started.  We can debate if Idalski was the right guy another time, but that fact is, bouncy ball will always just be a cute little program that will be measured by getting into a tournament that will have them be a whipping post to a far superior team.  Oh yeah, I forgot..... we get to do that with a 1.4 million audience.

 

Nobody cared about Women's Hockey in a hockey town 15 years later.  Nothing was going to change.  

[Siouxphan27]

12 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said:

2 appearances in 15 years, with a program that just started.  We can debate if Idalski was the right guy another time, but that fact is, bouncy ball will always just be a cute little program that will be measured by getting into a tournament that will have them be a whipping post to a far superior team.  Oh yeah, I forgot..... we get to do that with a 1.4 million audience.

 

NCAA women's hockey held its first national championship in 2001, so everybody 'just started.'

also, 1.4 million > 209.  

And lastly, none of the competitiveness numbers, or attendance numbers, are as important as the dollar figures. 

[MafiaMan]

4 hours ago, jdub27 said:

Minnesota has an athletic budget of $111 million, that $2 million is 1.8% of their budget.
UND has an athletic budget of $24 million (4.5x smaller), that $2 million is over 8.3% of their budget.

UND was required to cut $1.3 million of their athletic budget because they have a state subsidy of over 43% to supplement their athletic budget. UM takes a 6% subsidy on their athletic budget.

These are not comparable situations.

Don't let monetary facts get in the way of the good story about "classless" North Dakota running rampant over on GPL.  

[UND-FB-FAN]

34 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said:

2 appearances in 15 years, with a program that just started.  We can debate if Idalski was the right guy another time, but that fact is, bouncy ball will always just be a cute little program that will be measured by getting into a tournament that will have them be a whipping post to a far superior team.  Oh yeah, I forgot..... we get to do that with a 1.4 million audience.

 

"Bouncy ball" will always be more popular than hockey. You should want people to accept facts, not "alternative facts" aka lies. The fact is UND basketball will not always have its season end in a "whipping" and basketball, in general, is a more popular sport than hockey. 

You obviously don't watch popular sports (I feel sorry for you, in that regard) because UND obviously does have a good chance to win games in the NCAA tournament.. NDSU beat #5 Oklahoma in 2014 and UND was down only 7 points to #2 Arizona with only 7 minutes or so to go in this year's NCAA tournament.  It's called March Madness for a reason - check it out or look it up sometime

If you want to use facts that favor your hopeless argument, try using Canadian statistics.

 

[MafiaMan]

2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

"Bouncy ball" will always just be more popular than hockey. You should want people to accept facts, not "alternative facts" aka lies. The fact is not that it is a cute program that will always result in a "whipping"; the fact is it is a way more popular sport than hockey. 

You obviously don't watch popular sports (I feel sorry for you, in that regard) because UND obviously does have a very good chance to win games in the NCAA tournament. NDSU beat #3 Oklahoma in 2014 and UND was down only 7 points to #2 Arizona with only 7 minutes or so to go in this year's NCAA tournament. 

If you want to use facts that favor your hopeless argument, try using Canadian statistics.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that 'Zona was going to spank North Dakota by about 100.  Well, they did hang 100 on UND...but surprise, surprise, UND put up 80+ on the vaunted Wildcats.  They didn't embarrass themselves or the state with that performance - and it was noticed by basketball fans all over the country.  

[geaux_sioux]

33 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said:

2 appearances in 15 years, with a program that just started.  We can debate if Idalski was the right guy another time, but that fact is, bouncy ball will always just be a cute little program that will be measured by getting into a tournament that will have them be a whipping post to a far superior team.  Oh yeah, I forgot..... we get to do that with a 1.4 million audience.

 

We were far from a "whipping post" in our game against Arizona. 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

4 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

"Bouncy ball" will always just be more popular than hockey.

 

Nationally? Yes

In Grand Forks? Nope, hockey is THE sport

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

Nationally? Yes

In Grand Forks? Nope, UND men's hockey is THE sport

FYP

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

In Grand Forks? Nope, hockey is THE sport

Yes, you are correct; however, the complacency of the hockey crowd could hurt them some. Basketball has many followers in the region and it certainly could grow rapidly. Same goes for football. Those sports can grow and grow fast in this region. Hockey is already maxed out. In fact, we just witnessed it have to get cut down to a more logical size after yesterday's events. 

If some alum gave UND men's basketball a $100 million gift then I'm pretty sure things would be a little different in the ol' hockey town of Grand Forks. 

[UND08]

Just now, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

Nationally? Yes

In Grand Forks? Nope, hockey is THE sport

I didn't realize that UND's athletic footprint begins...and ends in Grand Forks County...