PairWise Rankings

[Vegas_Sioux]

On 3/4/2016 at 7:05 PM, squirtcoach said:

West Regional (St. Paul):
14 Minnesota vs. 2 North Dakota
12 Massachusetts-Lowell vs. 7 Denver

with this regional who do they send to officiate? AHA or ECAC?

[siouxu31]

7 minutes ago, keikla said:

The NCAA rewarded first seed Miami last year by sending them to play Providence in Providence (even though Providence wasn't the host school), so I don't think they care that much about protecting the higher seeds.

As for everyone's concern about Denver, considering the streak they've been on, I wouldn't be surprised to see them win the Frozen Face-off.  If they do, is it possible for them to sneak up and take the 4 spot?

It would be very difficult as their head to head record versus BU is 0-1, BC is 0-1, and St. Cloud is 0-2.  They are already losing the comparison with BU and they currently have the higher RPI.  They will not be able to flip this comparison.  They also will not be able to flip the comparison with BC because of lack of common opponents left to play (BC has some possibilities, but even losing out these common opponents wouldn't flip that comparison.  Denver could possibly get past St. Cloud and UND by flipping the RPI comparison and not losing if they were to meet head to head one more time (I am assuming if they met head to head one more time there would not be an opportunity to pass either team as that head to head matchup would be at the Frozen Faceoff, leaving too little time to come up with the RPI points.  They could also pass Providence and Quinnipiac if they flip the RPI. 

Bottom line is Denver would have to pass numerous teams in the RPI category to jump into a top seed and their PWR loss to BU could force them into tie breaker scenarios.

[UND-RedSox fan]

7 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Anyone can beat anyone in the NCHC, too. Too easy of a cliche. Michigan is the best team in the conference and PSU/Minny are 2 and 2a. I still think Michigan rips Minny if that's the final.

Yup. If they play Wisconsin, I think Sconnie could very well knock them off. Minnesota is AWFUL defensively and Wisconsin has a lot of team speed.

BS. It is realistic that Wisconsin could win the big ten. CC and WMU will not win the NCHC. Penn State only has a good record because they play all of their games against the two worst conferences. Ohio State is probably better than them. Minnesota split with Michigan this year.

And you bring up Minnesota's defense and then act like Michigan is undoubtedly the best team in the Big 10. Minnesota actually has the best defense in the Big 10. Michigan has a terrible defense with a bad goalie. Wisconsin fans describe their defense as the worst group of defensemen that Wisconsin has ever had. Ohio State has given up 5 or more goals 10 times this year.

Minnesota is going to win the Big 10 regular season for a reason. That reason may be that they are the best team in a group of bad teams, but it is still a reason.

[stoneySIOUX]

16 minutes ago, UND-RedSox fan said:

BS. It is realistic that Wisconsin could win the big ten. CC and WMU will not win the NCHC. Penn State only has a good record because they play all of their games against the two worst conferences. Ohio State is probably better than them. Minnesota split with Michigan this year.

And you bring up Minnesota's defense and then act like Michigan is undoubtedly the best team in the Big 10. Minnesota actually has the best defense in the Big 10. Michigan has a terrible defense with a bad goalie. Wisconsin fans describe their defense as the worst group of defensemen that Wisconsin has ever had. Ohio State has given up 5 or more goals 10 times this year.

Minnesota is going to win the Big 10 regular season for a reason. That reason may be that they are the best team in a group of bad teams, but it is still a reason.

OSU is absolutely not better then Penn State, but whatever. What are we arguing about here? I agreed with you that all the teams can win the Big 10, I just don't think anyone other than those three will.

Michigan is undoubtedly the best team in the Big 10. I've watched them all several times and it's not even close. Regardless of who has the "best" defense (all are poor, frankly), Michigan's offense runs the show on a nearly nightly basis. I'm not even going to waste my time talking about Wisco or OSU's D because they won't go anywhere haha.

If you're a betting man, I'd be willing to take Michigan over Minny in a final. Name the stakes (besides my first born child or my wife. she wouldn't be happy )

[UND-RedSox fan]

4 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

OSU is absolutely not better then Penn State, but whatever. What are we arguing about here? I agreed with you that all the teams can win the Big 10, I just don't think anyone other than those three will.

Michigan is undoubtedly the best team in the Big 10. I've watched them all several times and it's not even close. Regardless of who has the "best" defense, Michigan's offense runs the show on a nearly nightly basis. I'm not even going to waste my time talking about Wisco or OSU's D because they won't go anywhere haha.

If you're a betting man, I'd be willing to take Michigan over Minny in a final. Name the stakes (besides my first born child or my wife. she wouldn't be happy )

I just don't trust a team with as bad a defense as Michigan. If I were a betting man I would take the winner of the 1 vs 4 matchup to beat Michigan. If the Goofs and Michigan meet in their final I'd be willing to put some money on it.

[stoneySIOUX]

11 minutes ago, UND-RedSox fan said:

I just don't trust a team with as bad a defense as Michigan. If I were a betting man I would take the winner of the 1 vs 4 matchup to beat Michigan. If the Goofs and Michigan meet in their final I'd be willing to put some money on it.

Really? Based on what? Their, at best, below average defense? Not quite sure where I see where you're coming from, man. Could it happen? Absolutely. Michigan's D is bad, too. But their really, really good offense reigns over anything Minny has.

[UND-RedSox fan]

10 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Really? Based on what? Their, at best, below average defense? Not quite sure where I see where you're coming from, man. Could it happen? Absolutely. Michigan's D is bad, too. But their really, really good offense reigns over anything Minny has.

Minnesota has a good offense and average goal prevention. Michigan has a great offense with a terrible defense. I favor Minnesota because I think the difference between Minnesota's offense and Michigan's offense is less than the difference between Minnesota's goal prevention and Michigan's. They've gone 2-2 against each other this season, so previous games make it looks like a pick-em. Michigan has won their matchups by more. However, they come out flat more frequently than Minnesota and that is saying something because Minnesota tends to come out flat. Minnesota will also have much more to play for in the Big 10 championship than Michigan. For all of these reasons I would favor Minnesota in a Big 10 championship over Michigan.

[stoneySIOUX]

3 minutes ago, UND-RedSox fan said:

Minnesota has a good offense and average goal prevention. Michigan has a great offense with a terrible defense. I favor Minnesota because I think the difference between Minnesota's offense and Michigan's offense is less than the difference between Minnesota's goal prevention and Michigan's. They've gone 2-2 against each other this season, so previous games make it looks like a pick-em. Michigan has won their matchups by more. However, they come out flat more frequently than Minnesota and that is saying something because Minnesota tends to come out flat. Minnesota will also have much more to play for in the Big 10 championship than Michigan. For all of these reasons I would favor Minnesota in a Big 10 championship over Michigan.

The the bolded part is a very fair point.

However, in a one game scenario, Michigan is just better. Both of Minny's wins came in the second game of the series after Michigan blew them out the night before. You don't get to make a night-to-night adjustment in the playoffs. Both of Minny's wins were 1 goal wins and one was in overtime. To me, it's obvious Michigan is better.

[scpa0305]

5 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Other than Minny? Why? RMU is very good this year. Minny is very, very average.

its easy to say that because we don't like the gophs but I know who is more talented. RMU has a few nice NC wins but overall their schedule is terrible. MN has my money on who's a better team. Lastly, I wouldn't want the emotional drain after that first game. We'd match up much better against RMU from a depth perspective.

[stoneySIOUX]

21 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

its easy to say that because we don't like the gophs but I know who is more talented. RMU has a few nice NC wins but overall their schedule is terrible. MN has my money on who's a better team. Lastly, I wouldn't want the emotional drain after that first game. We'd match up much better against RMU from a depth perspective.

I'm not saying this for of a lack of liking them, obviously there's no shortage of that, but, I don't see a lot of standout talent on Minny. Of course their schedule is terrible, but outside of Michigan, who has Minny beaten that's any good? Notre Dame? Minny's is pretty awful, too.

Depth? Minnesota has an average-to-above average top 6 and their bottom is bad. Zac Lynch and Greg Gibson for RMU have 49 and 47 points respectively with Gibson second in the country in goals with 28. Before you say "but schedule" .... remember.... Big 10 is really bad, too. Possibly the second worst conference in the country.

Take away the program name and you'd have a tough time saying RMU isn't the better team. What makes Minny better? Their RPI, record, stats reflect much differently.

Why are we giving Minny so much respect? I get the fact they are a huge rival and are a traditional power, but has anyone watch this team this year? They are not very good. They deserve nothing but scorn and mocking, this year.

[scpa0305]

13 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

But, I don't see a lot of standout talent on Minny. Of course their schedule is terrible, but outside of Michigan, who has Minny beaten that's any good? Notre Dame? Minny's is pretty awful, too.

Depth? Minnesota has an average-to-above average top 6 and their bottom is bad. Zac Lynch and Greg Gibson for RMU have 49 and 47 points respectively with Gibson second in the country in goals with 28. Before you say "but schedule" .... remember.... Big 10 is really bad, too. Possibly the second worst conference in the country.

Take away the program name and you'd have a tough time saying RMU isn't the better team.

Why are we giving Minny so much respect? I get the fact they are a huge rival and are a traditional power, but has anyone watch this team this year? They are not very good. They deserve nothing but scorn and mocking, this year.

Yeah, just Notre Dame.  You're right, I will go back to RMU's schedule.  The Big10 is not good, although I would argue they are better than the WCHA, but the AHC is terrible. Check out the bottom 15 of the pairwise.

I get it that MN is having a tough year, but on paper they SHOULD be good.  Not that talent will always produce wins (obviously), but in a one and done tourney I would rather play a team with less talent.  RMU's top 2 guys look pretty decent, especially that Lynch kid (good numbers from soph year on) however the Gophs have much more talent (on paper).

[I Ranger]

28 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

its easy to say that because we don't like the gophs but I know who is more talented. RMU has a few nice NC wins but overall their schedule is terrible. MN has my money on who's a better team. Lastly, I wouldn't want the emotional drain after that first game. We'd match up much better against RMU from a depth perspective.

Exactly. Give me RMU over the Gophs any day. It's not even close. The Gophs have the talent to perform great in a one and done situation but their struggles have been consistency in winning consecutive games.

[stoneySIOUX]

2 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

Yeah, just Notre Dame.  You're right, I will go back to schedule.  The Big10 is not good, although I would argue they are better than the WCHA, but the AHC is terrible. 

I get it that MN is having a tough year but on paper, they SHOULD be good.  Not that talent will always produce wins (obviously), but in a one and done tourney I would rather play a team with less talent.  RMU's top 2 guys look pretty decent, especially that Lynch kid (good numbers from soph year on) however the Gophs have much more talent (on paper).

 

1 minute ago, I Ranger said:

Exactly. Give me RMU over the Gophs any day. It's not even close. The Gophs have the talent to perform great in a one and done situation but their struggles have been consistency in winning consecutive games.

Where are you guys seeing this talent?? I haven't seen much outside of Fasching or Kloos this season.

On paper.... ugh. Makes no sense to give them this kind of credit. Whether if they should be good or not is so irrelevant because they aren't. Last year, they shoulda won a title, right?

Just because we have heard more about these kids before they played for Minnesota, doesn't mean they are better. Numbers are real.

We're giving Minny credit for what they "should" be and not what they are.

All this being said, it's easy to say we'd rather play RMU because we know Minny very well and we know what the rivalry does to these games. But, simply put, Minnesota isn't very good.

Oh, and btw, Minny isn't going to make the tournament.... making the call

[siouxforce19]

6 minutes ago, I Ranger said:

Exactly. Give me RMU over the Gophs any day. It's not even close. The Gophs have the talent to perform great in a one and done situation but their struggles have been consistency in winning consecutive games.

I feel like we're all assuming the Atlantic Hockey autobid will be RMU. They could you know... lose in the conference tourney like they did last year... 

(Just to play devil's advocate)

[GFG]

5 hours ago, Goon said:

Ha, the same Michigan team that was swept by tOSU?

That Michigan team also didn't lose a game to Wisconsin this year. It's a one and done situation, a lot can happen. 

[Goon]

3 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

 

Oh, and btw, Minny isn't going to make the tournament.... making the call

Alright then, we're holding you to that.

[GFG]

3 hours ago, UND-RedSox fan said:

Michigan was just swept by a bad Ohio State. Penn State just lost to an absolutely awful Wisconsin team (I know we lost to them, but they are awful). All of the teams in the Big 10 suck and any of them can win their conference tournament.

I thought I saw that a team cannot play in the NCAA tournament with a sub .500 record even if they win their conference tournament. Can anyone confirm this for me? I swear somebody even showed me the rule but I can't remember if it was here, GPL or Reddit and I can't find it anywhere 

[SWSiouxMN]

I got a call

UND vs the Purple cows in St. Paul

make it happen

[Stack]

10 minutes ago, GFG said:

I thought I saw that a team cannot play in the NCAA tournament with a sub .500 record even if they win their conference tournament. Can anyone confirm this for me? I swear somebody even showed me the rule but I can't remember if it was here, GPL or Reddit and I can't find it anywhere 

You cannot make the NCAA tournament using the Pairwise rankings if you are under .500. However if you win the league tournament you are in no matter what your record is.

[GFG]

2 hours ago, UND-RedSox fan said:

BS. It is realistic that Wisconsin could win the big ten. CC and WMU will not win the NCHC. Penn State only has a good record because they play all of their games against the two worst conferences. Ohio State is probably better than them. Minnesota split with Michigan this year.

And you bring up Minnesota's defense and then act like Michigan is undoubtedly the best team in the Big 10. Minnesota actually has the best defense in the Big 10. Michigan has a terrible defense with a bad goalie. Wisconsin fans describe their defense as the worst group of defensemen that Wisconsin has ever had. Ohio State has given up 5 or more goals 10 times this year.

Minnesota is going to win the Big 10 regular season for a reason. That reason may be that they are the best team in a group of bad teams, but it is still a reason.

Wisconsin hasn't won 3 games in a row all year, so winning 3 games in the B1G tournament when they've only won 2 conference games all year would be pretty impressive for them. Penn State is solidly the 3rd best team in the B1G this year. They're not quite as good as Minnesota or Michigan, but they're very well coached and are capable of beating anyone on a given day. They're without a doubt better than Wisconsin, MSU and OSU. Their series with Michigan this weekend will be interesting because since they joined the B1G they've kind of been Michigans kryptonite. 

29 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I'm not saying this for of a lack of liking them, obviously there's no shortage of that, but, I don't see a lot of standout talent on Minny. Of course their schedule is terrible, but outside of Michigan, who has Minny beaten that's any good? Notre Dame? Minny's is pretty awful, too.

Depth? Minnesota has an average-to-above average top 6 and their bottom is bad. Zac Lynch and Greg Gibson for RMU have 49 and 47 points respectively with Gibson second in the country in goals with 28. Before you say "but schedule" .... remember.... Big 10 is really bad, too. Possibly the second worst conference in the country.

Take away the program name and you'd have a tough time saying RMU isn't the better team. What makes Minny better? Their RPI, record, stats reflect much differently.

Why are we giving Minny so much respect? I get the fact they are a huge rival and are a traditional power, but has anyone watch this team this year? They are not very good. They deserve nothing but scorn and mocking, this year.

They still have the talent to beat anyone in the country on a given night, and that's all it takes in the NCAA tournament. If you think RMU is better than Minnesota you're delusional.

[tnt]

9 minutes ago, GFG said:

I thought I saw that a team cannot play in the NCAA tournament with a sub .500 record even if they win their conference tournament. Can anyone confirm this for me? I swear somebody even showed me the rule but I can't remember if it was here, GPL or Reddit and I can't find it anywhere 

No, they just aren't eligible for an at large bid is my understanding.  The advantage of having the conference tourney champ getting the auto bid is to keep those teams that have had poor seasons interested and have that Cinderella type March madness atmosphere. 

[GFG]

Just now, Stack said:

You cannot make the NCAA tournament using the Pairwise rankings if you are under .500. However if you win the league tournament you are in no matter what your record is.

Alright that must be what it was! Whoever explained it must have misunderstood the rule and thought it included autobids. I remember bringing up the Wisconsin thing and they told me that they couldn't because of that rule. It appears they were wrong 

[stoneySIOUX]

21 minutes ago, Goon said:

Alright then, we're holding you to that.

Worked out well for me last time

[UND-RedSox fan]

44 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I'm not saying this for of a lack of liking them, obviously there's no shortage of that, but, I don't see a lot of standout talent on Minny. Of course their schedule is terrible, but outside of Michigan, who has Minny beaten that's any good? Notre Dame? Minny's is pretty awful, too.

Depth? Minnesota has an average-to-above average top 6 and their bottom is bad. Zac Lynch and Greg Gibson for RMU have 49 and 47 points respectively with Gibson second in the country in goals with 28. Before you say "but schedule" .... remember.... Big 10 is really bad, too. Possibly the second worst conference in the country.

Take away the program name and you'd have a tough time saying RMU isn't the better team. What makes Minny better? Their RPI, record, stats reflect much differently.

Why are we giving Minny so much respect? I get the fact they are a huge rival and are a traditional power, but has anyone watch this team this year? They are not very good. They deserve nothing but scorn and mocking, this year.

RPI says Minnesota is better. KRACH says Minnesota is a lot better. Minnesota has a better record in the Big 10 than Robert Morris has in Atlantic Hockey. Robert Morris lost to AIC this year. AIC finished behind Arizona State. Put Kloos, Fasching, and Bristedt in Atlantic Hockey and they would put up Johnny Gaudreau numbers. As GFG says, if you think RobMo is better than Minnesota, you are lying to yourself.

[stoneySIOUX]

22 minutes ago, GFG said:

They still have the talent to beat anyone in the country on a given night, and that's all it takes in the NCAA tournament. If you think RMU is better than Minnesota you're delusional.

They do? Where? What talent?

Of course I'm playing devil's advocate. I know Minnesota has the paper talent, but why must we poo poo RMU based on this paper talent? RMU has been proving they are talented this season. Call me whatever you want, but if your paper talent doesn't show up, you won't win games. I think it's incredibly delusional to think a team like Minnesota is better based on paper talent.

20 minutes ago, GFG said:

Alright that must be what it was! Whoever explained it must have misunderstood the rule and thought it included autobids. I remember bringing up the Wisconsin thing and they told me that they couldn't because of that rule. It appears they were wrong 

Right. Can't be an at-large. The Wisconsin rule

39 minutes ago, siouxforce19 said:

I feel like we're all assuming the Atlantic Hockey autobid will be RMU. They could you know... lose in the conference tourney like they did last year... 

(Just to play devil's advocate)

This whole thread is an assumption. RMU could lose the autobid just like HE, NCHC, Big 10, ECAC could end up stealing spots in the tourney.