If Big Ten Offers UND Should They Join?

[82SiouxGuy]

35 minutes ago, UND-RedSox fan said:

I guess they did tie Denver as well. Two good results is probably better than a lot of the teams in that area can say even if those were the only two non-negatives on the season.

Losses against good teams can even help. RPI is a big part of Pairwise. If you look at college basketball you will see that the RPI of your opponents can help or hurt your RPI no matter what the results are of your games. Wins and losses are very important, but who you play, their RPI, and their opponents RPI are all important factors, also.

[tnt]

1 hour ago, GFG said:

Minnesota had 1..I repeat, ONE game on Thursday this year, and it was last week against Michigan. They had 2 others that were out of their control in the North Star Cup on Sunday and SCSU on Sunday because they had a home football game against Wisconsin on Saturday, making it nearly impossible to have a hockey game that day. That's something they did during home football games while they were in the WCHA, too. You completely blow it out of proportion. Either Minnesota agreed to have the Michigan series on Thursday and Friday to have both games televised by BTN, or else there were other events in the area Saturday (Red Bull Crashed Ice World Championships) that they didn't want to compete with, which is also a strong possibility. The NCHC has had some Thursday games this year, too. Denver and CC just had one two weeks ago, so it's not a B1G thing.

Sorry for the rant, it's just a tiring thing to hear when it's almost completely not true. 

Your rant would best be directed toward the gopher fan base and even guys like Nate Miller and Pat Michelletti, who say that they don't follow it as closely because they have no idea when they are playing.  I thought it odd that fans and guys that used to play for the gophers think it is a chore to keep up with their team.  Although I wouldn't like the odd games as much, I am certain I would know when they were being played.  Most of the fan base is so keen on finding out when and whether games are on TV, it wouldn't be too much of a chore to find out if they are having a game on a different night, or a different time like they are this Friday.  

[GFG]

8 minutes ago, tnt said:

Your rant would best be directed toward the gopher fan base and even guys like Nate Miller and Pat Michelletti, who say that they don't follow it as closely because they have no idea when they are playing.  I thought it odd that fans and guys that used to play for the gophers think it is a chore to keep up with their team.  Although I wouldn't like the odd games as much, I am certain I would know when they were being played.  Most of the fan base is so keen on finding out when and whether games are on TV, it wouldn't be too much of a chore to find out if they are having a game on a different night, or a different time like they are this Friday.  

I'm not sure why they would say that because it's simply not true. The B1G doesn't do many random day games. Obviously much less than the east coast schools. Of course game times differ because of the time zones, but other than that I don't understand their complaints unless it was more directed at not knowing which channel the games are on since they are on multiple channels now instead of just FSN. I know that's one of the big complaints, too.

But my comment was directed at SiouxKid for saying he didn't want UND playing in the B1G because he didn't want to play a bunch of Thursday and Sunday games or whatever, which just isn't true. It's a rare occurrence to play on those days.

[fightingsioux4life]

57 minutes ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

Losses against good teams can even help. RPI is a big part of Pairwise. If you look at college basketball you will see that the RPI of your opponents can help or hurt your RPI no matter what the results are of your games. Wins and losses are very important, but who you play, their RPI, and their opponents RPI are all important factors, also.

Especially when it comes to the FCS playoffs!

[siouxkid12]

56 minutes ago, GFG said:

I'm not sure why they would say that because it's simply not true. The B1G doesn't do many random day games. Obviously much less than the east coast schools. Of course game times differ because of the time zones, but other than that I don't understand their complaints unless it was more directed at not knowing which channel the games are on since they are on multiple channels now instead of just FSN. I know that's one of the big complaints, too.

But my comment was directed at SiouxKid for saying he didn't want UND playing in the B1G because he didn't want to play a bunch of Thursday and Sunday games or whatever, which just isn't true. It's a rare occurrence to play on those days.

Big Ten schools:

December 12 (Thursday)- Michigan vs. Wisconsin 1:30pm 
October 29th (Thursday)- Penn St vs. St. Lawrance 6pm CDT
January 28th (Thursday)- Penn St vs. Michigan 6pm CDT

January 17th (Sunday) - Michigan vs. Ohio State 4pm CDT

March 6th (Sunday) - Michigan vs. Ohio State 2pm CDT

October 22nd (Thursday) Michigan St vs. LSSU 6pm CDT

November 22nd (Sunday) Michigan St vs. Michigan Tech 3pm CDT

November 29th (Sunday) Michigan St vs. North Dakota 2pm CDT

Having it happen 8 times is not rare, having it happen ONCE or Twice is rare... My point being (outside of playing Thursdays and Sundays) is, I don't want hockey to be taking a back seat to other sports and that is what is happening to the B10. I understand that hockey isn't a big revenue sport for the B10 but for us schools that are used to it being the sport on campus, to me it doesn't make sense to make that jump and be shuffled back down into obscurity. 

 

[JohnboyND7]

God forbid you play on Thursdays once or twice a year...

I wonder how mad Duke gets when they play basketball games during the week.  #backseat

[siouxfan512]

6 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

God forbid you play on Thursdays once or twice a year...

I wonder how mad Duke gets when they play basketball games during the week.  #backseat

No thanks! Friday/Saturday series are perfect. Thats how it always was growing up (even when I was a gopher fan), and I would personally not want to see it any other way.

[GFG]

38 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

Big Ten schools:

December 12 (Thursday)- Michigan vs. Wisconsin 1:30pm 
October 29th (Thursday)- Penn St vs. St. Lawrance 6pm CDT
January 28th (Thursday)- Penn St vs. Michigan 6pm CDT

January 17th (Sunday) - Michigan vs. Ohio State 4pm CDT

March 6th (Sunday) - Michigan vs. Ohio State 2pm CDT

October 22nd (Thursday) Michigan St vs. LSSU 6pm CDT

November 22nd (Sunday) Michigan St vs. Michigan Tech 3pm CDT

November 29th (Sunday) Michigan St vs. North Dakota 2pm CDT

Having it happen 8 times is not rare, having it happen ONCE or Twice is rare... My point being (outside of playing Thursdays and Sundays) is, I don't want hockey to be taking a back seat to other sports and that is what is happening to the B10. I understand that hockey isn't a big revenue sport for the B10 but for us schools that are used to it being the sport on campus, to me it doesn't make sense to make that jump and be shuffled back down into obscurity. 

 

Now cross-reference all of those with football games and other home events, like basketball.

All of Michigan States were because of football and all of them were non-conference games, meaning UND wouldn't have been affected if it were a conference game. PSU-SLU was also football, meaning once again that UND wouldn't have been affected at all since conference games haven't started. 

PSU-Mich was Thursday so they could travel to Madison Square Garden for Saturday's game, so it was agreed upon by both schools.

Michigan-Ohio State agreed to the Sunday game for a home and home series with a day of travel. Both teams also have basketball games Saturday, so having the game Sunday allows both schools to market that to their fan bases as their rivalry and not have any other sports to compete with.

Michigan-Wisconsin on Thursday December 12...that doesn't make much sense since Minnesota played at Michigan on Saturday December 12th...

 

Basically, UND wouldn't have been affected by any of it. Not once. 

[siouxkid12]

Just now, GFG said:

Now cross-reference all of those with football games and other home events, like basketball.

All of Michigan States were because of football. PSU-SLU was also football. 

PSU-Mich was Thursday so they could travel to Madison Square Garden for Saturday's game. Michigan-Ohio State agreed to the Sunday game for a home and home series with a day of travel.

Michigan-Wisconsin on Thursday December 12...Minnesota played at Michigan on Saturday December 12th...

I'm not sure you are understanding my point. UND is in a great conference already, what do they have to gain by joining the B10? The teams suck, B10 is a football and basketball conference(you said it yourself) and you have you accommodate your conference schedule to make it appealing for B10 football/basketball. I'm sorry but if I want to go to a weekend series in early October to see UND vs. Michigan, I better not be waiting around in Ann Arbor in between game days.  Also, I dont get excited about playing Ohio State, Penn State or even Michigan State; when we can play the likes of Denver, CC, Duluth, St. Cloud. By joining the B10 we would be the little school without much say in the process (because we all know if you are B10 across the board you carry more weight). 

[GFG]

4 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

I'm not sure you are understanding my point. UND is in a great conference already, what do they have to gain by joining the B10? The teams suck, B10 is a football and basketball conference(you said it yourself) and you have you accommodate your conference schedule to make it appealing for B10 football/basketball. I'm sorry but if I want to go to a weekend series in early October to see UND vs. Michigan, I better not be waiting around in Ann Arbor in between game days.  Also, I dont get excited about playing Ohio State, Penn State or even Michigan State; when we can play the likes of Denver, CC, Duluth, St. Cloud. By joining the B10 we would be the little school without much say in the process (because we all know if you are B10 across the board you carry more weight). 

There are no conference games in early October, so you wouldn't be waiting around. Conference games don't start until the football regular season is over. That's fine if you don't want to be in the conference, but originally the 'games not on Fri-Sat' argument is what you were making and it wouldn't affect UND at all. 

[rochsioux]

3 hours ago, UND-RedSox fan said:

It's weird this year. There's a small chance that three teams from the Big 10 could make the tournament even though they have been awful this year. The only teams that weren't terrible out of conference were Michigan and Penn State. And the only reason Penn State wasn't awful is because they are pretty much an honorary Atlantic Hockey member. Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Ohio State have been terrible period. Yet the lowest Pairwise spot in the Big 10 is Michigan State at 44. I have no idea how Wisconsin is at 40 considering they only have 6 wins; 2 over #59 Arizona State, 2 over #55 Alaska, us, and 1 win over #44 Michigan State. Is the win over us the difference between 40th and 55th for them?

If you switched the Wisconsin win to a loss (vs UND) their pairwise would drop to 50 (UND would be #1).

[UNDBIZ]

8 minutes ago, rochsioux said:

If you switched the Wisconsin win to a loss (vs UND) their pairwise would drop to 50 (UND would be #1).

#BlameSchloss

[Siouxperfan7]

Being in a hockey only conference, the priority of the conference is pretty obvious.  In the B1G, hockey is the 3rd most important priority, and it is treated that way.  Looking at the state both leagues are currently in,  I'll take take the NCHC or the B1G every day of the week and twice on Sunday!  (Well, maybe not Thursdays ).

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, JohnboyND7 said:

God forbid you play on Thursdays once or twice a year...

I wonder how mad Duke gets when they play basketball games during the week.  #backseat

College basketball and hockey are two entirely different animals.

[JohnboyND7]

3 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

College basketball and hockey are two entirely different animals.

Right, I get that.  But once or twice a year playing a Thursday/Sunday series or whatever really doesn't seem that terrible.  If that was the "hang up" or whatever on joining the B1G, I'd think that is a weak reason.

[fightingsioux4life]

2 hours ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Right, I get that.  But once or twice a year playing a Thursday/Sunday series or whatever really doesn't seem that terrible.  If that was the "hang up" or whatever on joining the B1G, I'd think that is a weak reason.

There are plenty of other, stronger reasons not to join the Little 6.

[Brucesky02]

15 hours ago, siouxkid12 said:

Big Ten schools:

December 12 (Thursday)- Michigan vs. Wisconsin 1:30pm 
October 29th (Thursday)- Penn St vs. St. Lawrance 6pm CDT
January 28th (Thursday)- Penn St vs. Michigan 6pm CDT

January 17th (Sunday) - Michigan vs. Ohio State 4pm CDT

March 6th (Sunday) - Michigan vs. Ohio State 2pm CDT

October 22nd (Thursday) Michigan St vs. LSSU 6pm CDT

November 22nd (Sunday) Michigan St vs. Michigan Tech 3pm CDT

November 29th (Sunday) Michigan St vs. North Dakota 2pm CDT

Having it happen 8 times is not rare, having it happen ONCE or Twice is rare... My point being (outside of playing Thursdays and Sundays) is, I don't want hockey to be taking a back seat to other sports and that is what is happening to the B10. I understand that hockey isn't a big revenue sport for the B10 but for us schools that are used to it being the sport on campus, to me it doesn't make sense to make that jump and be shuffled back down into obscurity. 

 

I would be against playing in the B1G...but to play devil's advocate here, your list only includes 4 B1G conference games. The other 4 were OOC games, where scheduling is at the discretion of the teams involved. Here were the NCHC Conference and OOC non-F/Sa games this year:

(1) NCHC:
Thu.2/18/20167:00 MT(10) Denver4@Colorado College1

(6) OOC:
Tue.10/13/20157:00 ET(10) Bowling Green1@Western Michigan4
Sun.11/29/20153:00 ET(5) North Dakota4@Michigan State1
Sun.11/29/20156:00 CT(7) St. Cloud State7@Minnesota4
Sun.12/20/20152:00 CTArizona State0@(6) Nebraska-Omaha
Wed.12/30/20155:00 ETWestern Michigan1@(12) Bowling Green0
Sun.1/3/20165:00 ETRensselaer2@Miami4

*BSU and UMD played on a Tuesday, but I didn't include that as it was a makeup game outside of normal scheduling.

[siouxkid12]

1 hour ago, Brucesky02 said:

I would be against playing in the B1G...but to play devil's advocate here, your list only includes 4 B1G conference games. The other 4 were OOC games, where scheduling is at the discretion of the teams involved. Here were the NCHC Conference and OOC non-F/Sa games this year:

(1) NCHC:
Thu.2/18/20167:00 MT(10) Denver4@Colorado College1

(6) OOC:
Tue.10/13/20157:00 ET(10) Bowling Green1@Western Michigan4
Sun.11/29/20153:00 ET(5) North Dakota4@Michigan State1
Sun.11/29/20156:00 CT(7) St. Cloud State7@Minnesota4
Sun.12/20/20152:00 CTArizona State0@(6) Nebraska-Omaha
Wed.12/30/20155:00 ETWestern Michigan1@(12) Bowling Green0
Sun.1/3/20165:00 ETRensselaer2@Miami4

*BSU and UMD played on a Tuesday, but I didn't include that as it was a makeup game outside of normal scheduling.

I get that but my point is that those schools that are in the B10 put more emphasis on their other sports and have no problem moving games around for other sports to fit the needs of their big time money making sports. I get why the B10 does it but to me I dont see how it would benefit UND or any other school in the NCHC to play in the B10. Also just because you join the B10, it does not mean you are a full fledged member.  

[runaroundsioux]

12 hours ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Right, I get that.  But once or twice a year playing a Thursday/Sunday series or whatever really doesn't seem that terrible.  If that was the "hang up" or whatever on joining the B1G, I'd think that is a weak reason.

Do you have any idea how many people travel to Grand Forks on a Friday for a weekend series?(hint:it's a lot) They stay Friday and Saturday nights in hotels.Go home Sunday. Change that to Thursday/Sunday-they aint coming.

[Goon]

1 hour ago, runaroundsioux said:

Do you have any idea how many people travel to Grand Forks on a Friday for a weekend series?(hint:it's a lot) They stay Friday and Saturday nights in hotels.Go home Sunday. Change that to Thursday/Sunday-they aint coming.

I know this for a fact. After a Saturday night game, a buddy and I drove from Grand Forks to Devils Lake. The traffic leaving town was very heavy. It would be interesting to know how many 1,000's of people travel to the Ralph from all over.

[JohnboyND7]

2 hours ago, runaroundsioux said:

Do you have any idea how many people travel to Grand Forks on a Friday for a weekend series?(hint:it's a lot) They stay Friday and Saturday nights in hotels.Go home Sunday. Change that to Thursday/Sunday-they aint coming.

Once or twice a year... I'm sure they'd have no problem dumping the tickets if they wanted to make sure they got used.

[Sodbuster]

I know a couple of guys in the Lisbon area who have season tickets, go to every home series and stay in motel. They wouldn't do it if it was a Thursday and Friday setup.

[82SiouxGuy]

3 hours ago, runaroundsioux said:

Do you have any idea how many people travel to Grand Forks on a Friday for a weekend series?(hint:it's a lot) They stay Friday and Saturday nights in hotels.Go home Sunday. Change that to Thursday/Sunday-they aint coming.

It appears that almost every Big 10 game that was played on Thursday or Sunday was to avoid a conflict with a home football game, or a few for a home basketball game. UND isn't very likely to do that, so it is very unlikely that any UND home games would be affected. UND would be much more likely to play an away game on a different day.

[siouxkid12]

46 minutes ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

It appears that almost every Big 10 game that was played on Thursday or Sunday was to avoid a conflict with a home football game, or a few for a home basketball game. UND isn't very likely to do that, so it is very unlikely that any UND home games would be affected. UND would be much more likely to play an away game on a different day.

That's not the only reason to not join the B10. UND doesn't really gain anything by joining the B10; they wont be asked to join the B10 in football, basketball, or any other sport. Why should they sacrifice leaving a hockey dominated conference and go to a conference where hockey is below B10 wrestling? To me it doesn't make any sense and sets UND's hockey program farther back. Playing the likes of Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State just doesn't excite me as much as playing CC, Denver, Omaha, or Miami. 

[82SiouxGuy]

4 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

That's not the only reason to not join the B10. UND doesn't really gain anything by joining the B10; they wont be asked to join the B10 in football, basketball, or any other sport. Why should they sacrifice leaving a hockey dominated conference and go to a conference where hockey is below B10 wrestling? To me it doesn't make any sense and sets UND's hockey program farther back. Playing the likes of Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State just doesn't excite me as much as playing CC, Denver, Omaha, or Miami. 

I wasn't addressing any issue other than the fact that worrying about playing home games on off days probably was a waste of time. They probably wouldn't happen for UND home games.

However, I disagree with you on some of these issues. UND has a long history of playing hockey against Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Michigan State. Much longer than the history of playing Omaha and Miami. Wins against Michigan in the 40's were what propelled UND into the top echelon of college hockey. Those Big 10 schools were all part of the WCHA for a long time, and were regular opponents as well as rivals. I enjoy the games against Omaha, Miami, and Western Michigan, but would much rather play regular games against those Big 10 schools. Penn State has made a commitment to hockey and appears to be improving quickly. The schools that have had strong programs in the past will most likely come back in the future. I would still want to continue playing Denver and CC because of the history, the same history as playing the former WCHA teams in the Big 10.

Just because the NCHC is a hockey only conference doesn't mean that it is the best place for UND. A hockey only conference has a very limited sphere of influence, the Big 10 has much greater influence in the world of college sports. If the NCAA is going to make major changes to the sport, having the Big 10 on your side would be much more useful than having the NCHC. Several of the Big 10 schools have had strong programs over many years in spite of the fact that they were the 3rd or 4th sport in their school. These schools have the financial resources to support all of their athletic programs, so money isn't going to be a problem for them as long as they want to be competitive.

That being said, it would totally depend on the conditions and terms offered to UND if they were offered an entry into the Big 10 hockey conference. You can't make a final decision either way on a topic like this unless you know the details.