Drop Fighting Hawks name

[Shawn-O]

Give it some time to catch on...three decades or so should do it.  

[Siouxphan27]

I was at Fridays game.   My hearing must be going; I thought they were yelling boobs, so I joined in.

[dagies]

Here's what I don't understand:

A majority picked "Fighting Hawks"; yet, it sounded like a majority of the arena responded negatively toward it. 

My theory, in hindsight.

The voting was open to the various stakeholder groups of which we are all familiar but I won't list here because I'll forgot someone.  BUT, just because you are a student or an alumnus it doesn't mean you give a hoot about sporting events.

What is the nickname for?  It's for the sports teams.  There's very little point in having a nickname without the connection to your sports teams.

How many students give a rip about sports?    And that translates through to alumni.   Maybe there's a large % that really don't give a rip.

So if 2 of 3 students and alumni who love UND but don't care about sports are going to vote about a nickname, they probably aren't going to give a rip about whether there's 80 other teams with the same or similar name.   "They asked me to vote, these are my choices, and Fighting Hawks sounds cool, so.....".

I mean, it's not a bad nickname in and of itself.  it's just really bad to those of us know are more invested in the nickname and don't really care to be one of 80 hawk related nicknames.  So I can see how someone who is not invested would select Fighting Hawks.

And that's my theory about the students and this weekend.  The students at the games aren't the ones who voted for Fighting Hawks.   It's the students who don't care about athletics who were given a choice and thought it sounded good.   They're not at the games, so their support isn't obvious.

Maybe the next time instead of a committee they open it up to ticket holders instead (ok, I'm just having a little fun here).  Tell everyone to show up 1 hour before the game if they care about the new nickname.  Then, by measuring applause, they read off the 50 nickname options and measure the db of support each get.

The final 10 get reviewed similarly at the next game, and maybe that's culled down to 3 or so.

Then,  a month later (after plenty of educational time on message boards) that final 3 get culled down to a finalist.

[Fetch]

How about not baiting the negativity & wait for the logo

Keep the announcer out of it

[The Sicatoka]

I was at Fridays game.   My hearing must be going; I thought they were yelling boobs, so I joined in.

Leave the referees out of it. 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

I was at Fridays game.   My hearing must be going; I thought they were yelling boobs, so I joined in.

Your avatar makes this and many of your other posts about 3x as funny.

[darell1976]

I was at Fridays game.   My hearing must be going; I thought they were yelling boobs, so I joined in.

A lot of fans cheering for Hooters to come to Grand Forks?

[ericpnelson]

I was at Fridays game.   My hearing must be going; I thought they were yelling boobs, so I joined in.

That makes sense now. Here I thought they were all just getting a little owl-ly 

[southpaw]

My donations/support to UND never was predicated on the nickname.................never will be.

I've already donated more to UND since they became the Fighting Hawks than all of the other previous donations combined.  None of it had to do with a nickname.

[siouxfaninseattle]

Dain bramage. Let's move on!

[The Sicatoka]

That makes sense now. Here I thought they were all just getting a little owl-ly 

I said we should've been the "Great Horned Owls".  

[UND-RedSox fan]

In my personal circle, I know a few people that voted for F Hawks over RoughRiders. I still haven't met a person that voted for it over both Nodaks and RoughRiders. Oh well, is my opinion now. I wanted UND to get a new nickname so we wouldn't ever have to talk about this again. They picked a nickname I personally found to be horrendous, but it is what it is. I'm still a UND fan, just one that will never buy anything with F Hawk on it. We still have the interlocked ND logo and the best hockey team in the country and a football team on the rise.

[Fetch]

[UND1981]

I'm thinking of how much I enjoy living in GF and being a UND alumni; spending less time thinking about how much I dislike the new name.  Slow progress for me. 

[siouxforcefans]

It will catch on everywhere else before it catches on with the hockey fans. 

I can't explain this, and I'm not trying to debate a "hockey only" mentality, but it certainly seems to be true.  We had season football tickets this year for the first time, and there was much less Sioux apparel, and there were virtually no Sioux chants at the games, compared to hockey.  When I've seen the basketball teams play the last couple years (men and women), also much less Sioux.  Soccer was the same.  At hockey games, however, it's Sioux here, Sioux there, Sioux everywhere.  My point is that using the hockey crowd to gauge acceptance is going to skew your results.

[Teeder11]

It will catch on everywhere else before it catches on with the hockey fans. 

I can't explain this, and I'm not trying to debate a "hockey only" mentality, but it certainly seems to be true.  We had season football tickets this year for the first time, and there was much less Sioux apparel, and there were virtually no Sioux chants at the games, compared to hockey.  When I've seen the basketball teams play the last couple years (men and women), also much less Sioux.  Soccer was the same.  At hockey games, however, it's Sioux here, Sioux there, Sioux everywhere.  My point is that using the hockey crowd to gauge acceptance is going to skew your results.

The only way I can explain it is to use a personal anecdote. I am a Duke fan living in Grand Forks, N.D. So what does that really mean? It means I am a Duke BASKETBALL fan. I couldn't care less about Duke football, baseball, or even lacrosse.  So it is with many people around the region, and country, and dare I say world, with UND HOCKEY. They love UND hockey, and I do, too; there is a lot to like about our program, to say the least. But for many, they couldn't care less about UND's other sports programs, much less the school overall. Their connection is to one thing and one thing only -- hockey. And with that passion comes the adoration for the symbol that the UND hockey program has revered and held in the highest esteem more than any other program at UND. So it's reasonable that this would be the result. So be it. It is what it is. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by Teeder11

[Teeder11]

I should add that it is my humble opinion that there are far more people that are UND sports fans in general at our football and basketball games than there are those that are dedicated to only one sport. Not saying there aren't football only and basketball only fans, because there are. Just fewer by comparison.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Teeder11

[siouxforcefans]

 

The only way I can explain it is to use a personal anecdote. I am a Duke fan living in Grand Forks, N.D. So what does that really mean? It means I am a Duke BASKETBALL fan. I couldn't care less about Duke football, baseball, or even lacrosse.  So it is with many people around the region, and country, and dare I say world, with UND HOCKEY. They love UND hockey, and I do, too; there is a lot to like about our program, to say the least. But for many, they couldn't care less about UND's other sports programs, much less the school overall. Their connection is to one thing and one thing only -- hockey. And with that passion comes the adoration for the symbol that the UND hockey program has revered and held in the highest esteem more than any other program at UND. So it's reasonable that this would be the result. So be it. It is what it is. 

Good analogy.  Too bad we have to hate each other from this point forward - Go 'Heels!

[bypolairxam]

All this nickname stuff is nuts...On and on it goes...Get the Galactic Empire to zap the planet we're on with the 
Death Star...That will shut everybody up....Then there will be one less screwed up planet in the universe....

[siouxvikes]

I voted for the Fighting Hawks!  It was the best name out of the bunch by a MILE!  I mean the University of North Dakota Nodaks?  Really?  The North Dakota North Dakotas.  Good god. 

 

And the Roughriders?  Yeah, let's just steal the local high school's nickname, that's original.

 

Fighting Hawks sucks, sure.  But it's a hell of a lot better than the other crap ass nicknames that were on the ballot. 

 

And the line of "champions club received a record number of donations" doesn't necessarily stand for alumni "support." 

You HAVE to donate to the champions club for season hockey tickets.  THAT is where the money is coming from, I'd hardly call that a donation to the "university" and say it equals "alumni support."  It's simply people that want season hockey tickets. 

[imasiouxfan]

No one really voted FOR the Fighting Hawks. Their vote was AGAINST the other awful choices.  It was like asking if you want to eat dirt, soap, or banana peels. You choose banana peels even though they aren't really edible. We are now gagging on banana peels. 

[ArchyAlum11]

On 12/7/2015 at 7:15 AM, UND-FB-FAN said:

It's over. Move on and support the TEAMS and STUDENT-ATHLETES. 

Go University of North Dakota Fighting Hawks

No one is saying don't support the university or the teams, however this New nickname is just branding at this point and if the new brand name fails to catch on the university could change it completely through another nickname selection that is less emotionally charged because it is a name that no-one will have a strong attachment too. Keep in mind that the Fighting Sioux was the University's second nickname and the the previous nickname "flicker-tails" was changed with little to no opposition. Of course at that time their was less money tied into college sports, however that could actually speed up the changing of a nickname. With a nickname and logo its all about selling merchandise , if people don't buy items with the new logo or name then the university will either look to change the nickname or just not use it as much. Look at the teams in the big ten conference, very few use their logo, most just have a monogram. If the fighting hawks gear fails to sell the university will have to take action to ensure that they are maximizing profit on merchandise sales, that means more "North Dakota", and less "Fighting Hawks". The only way the university comes out of this and keeps fighting hawks is if they figure out a way to make a generic name into an incredibly unique logo, I am not going to hold my breath for that.

Also, I have some thoughts concerning your "Get over it" argument, anything that has been around for seventy years and enjoyed mostly support from the stakeholder community isn't going to die quietly. People aren't going to just get over it, especially after the way that the old nickname was taken away and the way the the new nickname was "selected". People are going to feel sore about this for quite awhile and the whole "Get over it and move on!" attitude only serves to anger the people who are not on board and retrench them towards not accepting new nickname. Also it makes you look like an elitist jerk. So if you really want people to "get over it and move on" your probably better letting them vent their anger rather than trying to talk down to them like you are some how more enlightened because your ready to accept the new nickname. Just a thought, take it or leave it.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

15 minutes ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

No one is saying don't support the university or the teams, however this New nickname is just branding at this point and if the new brand name fails to catch on the university could change it completely through another nickname selection that is less emotionally charged because it is a name that no-one will have a strong attachment too. Keep in mind that the Fighting Sioux was the University's second nickname and the the previous nickname "flicker-tails" was changed with little to no opposition. Of course at that time their was less money tied into college sports, however that could actually speed up the changing of a nickname. With a nickname and logo its all about selling merchandise , if people don't buy items with the new logo or name then the university will either look to change the nickname or just not use it as much. Look at the teams in the big ten conference, very few use their logo, most just have a monogram. If the fighting hawks gear fails to sell the university will have to take action to ensure that they are maximizing profit on merchandise sales, that means more "North Dakota", and less "Fighting Hawks". The only way the university comes out of this and keeps fighting hawks is if they figure out a way to make a generic name into an incredibly unique logo, I am not going to hold my breath for that.

Also, I have some thoughts concerning your "Get over it" argument, anything that has been around for seventy years and enjoyed mostly support from the stakeholder community isn't going to die quietly. People aren't going to just get over it, especially after the way that the old nickname was taken away and the way the the new nickname was "selected". People are going to feel sore about this for quite awhile and the whole "Get over it and move on!" attitude only serves to anger the people who are not on board and retrench them towards not accepting new nickname. Also it makes you look like an elitist jerk. So if you really want people to "get over it and move on" your probably better letting them vent their anger rather than trying to talk down to them like you are some how more enlightened because your ready to accept the new nickname. Just a thought, take it or leave it.

Good 1st post

[ArchyAlum11]

On 12/7/2015 at 8:46 AM, The Sicatoka said:

Here's what I don't understand:

A majority picked "Fighting Hawks"; yet, it sounded like a majority of the arena responded negatively toward it. 

The majority of people who voted picked fighting hawks, keep in mind that less than half of eligible stake holders participated, some are still holding on the the Fighting Sioux nickname, but most were upset when the committee and President Kelley choose to eliminate the no nickname option, which was the most suggested. Out of the people who did vote , most of us were voting for the one that sounded the least awful... like a presidential election.

[Teeder11]

29 minutes ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

The majority of people who voted picked fighting hawks, keep in mind that less than half of eligible stake holders participated, some are still holding on the the Fighting Sioux nickname, but most were upset when the committee and President Kelley choose to eliminate the no nickname option, which was the most suggested. Out of the people who did vote , most of us were voting for the one that sounded the least awful... like a presidential election.

Let's face it, the 82,000 figure was a best guess at best by the Alumni Association to come up with the potential number of stakeholder voters that might be out there. The vast majority of this 82,000-stakeholder figure would comprise alumni or anyone who has passed through the university and snatched a degree in the process (I don't think they went with the more loosely determined definition of alumni, which is anyone who matriculated to UND whether they graduated or not).  So I am excluding all non-alumni staff, non-alum faculty, non-alum donors and non-alum season ticket holders as making up the vast majority of the rest of this fabled 82,000 figure.

We know we had about 27,000-some who did vote, which leaves about 55,000 stakeholders out there who chose not to for whatever reason.

It is my contention that the vast majority of this "disgruntled" 55,000 is not disgruntled at all. Instead it is the thousands upon thousands of UND alumni, who, during their time at UND did not once think about UND athletics, did not once darken the doors of the old Ralph, the new Ralph, the old Winter Sports Center, Hyslop, the Betty, etc. They are the grad students from Timbuktu who came here to get a degree and go home. They are the philosophy majors who spent more time at the Chest Fritz Library studying then they did anywhere else on campus. They are the music majors who only ventured inside the Ralph to sing the national anthem and then left right away to do whatever else college students do who are not interested in sports. They are the drama students who knew Burtness Theatre like the back of their hand but couldn't identify Hyslop for the life of them. Bottomline, they are the ones who never would have voted anyway, the ones who haven't thought about UND since they moved away 5,10, 15, 20, 25, etc. years ago. 

I get it, sports is popular, and it's a big thing on the UND campus, I can attest to that.  I am as big a UND fan as there comes. But you will never get me to believe that much of those lost 55,000-strong group of non-voters didn't vote because they were pissed about the options or the process. Most of them simply were not going to vote no matter what the options were or process was.

 There were some who didn't do it because they were angry, I know, but my hunch is that it is a much smaller portion of the 55,000 than some on here and many in the media think/say it is.