College Hockey Vs FCS Football

[fightingsioux4life]

The goal of UND athletics should be to attain success at ALL sports.

That means MBB making the NCAA tournament.

That means WBB making the NCAA tournament (already happened once)

That means FB winning conference and national championships.

That means MH winning conference and national championships.

That means WH winning conference and national championships.

Notice what I did there? I didn't pit one sport against another and turn this into a game of false choices and further perpetuating the myth that this is all a zero-sum game. I want UND to succeed in all it's endeavors (academics, athletics and research). That should be our focus, not this petty debate of football vs. hockey vs. basketball vs. whatever else.

[North Dakota]

I'm just saying that athletics are the Universities biggest marketing tool and the biggest bang for the buck resides in men's BB. I too want success in all sports.

[nodak651]

I'm just saying that athletics are the Universities biggest marketing tool and the biggest bang for the buck resides in men's BB. I too want success in all sports.

Well, I have often wondered how much the bb program would grow if we didn't have a hockey team and the bb team had the ralph and it's amazing players area/facilities.  They would probably have one of the best setups in NCAA basketball.  I think fightingsioux4life is right though.  We should all hope for every program to be successful.  

Edited December 10, 2015 by nodak651

[Shawn-O]

Deemphasizing hockey is assinine.  You don't kill a golden goose.  Some day, UND will be in a PAC12 league with Denver and maybe Omaha.  That will pay tremendous dividends for all UND sports.

I agree with you here, Ralph made sure of this with his gift.  

On the conference side, you are delving into the realm of science fiction once again.  Will UBC be joining the league?  

[SiouxVolley]

 

 

I agree with you here, Ralph made sure of this with his gift.  

On the conference side, you are delving into the realm of science fiction once again.  Will UBC be joining the league?  

UBC decided not to join the NCAA, so they are not allowed.

A PAC12 hockey conference needs fervent fans, history, a recruiting base and sterling facilities.  It's not any more of a stretch than Denver getting membership in the Big East for lacrosse.  If Washington St is a full member, UND is not a reach for one sport.

[niouxsiouxfan]

All I really care about is tomorrow maybe next week 

In our older ages, what else is there to look forward to? I'm happy to wake up in the morning!

[scpa0305]

Evidently about 1.8% a year.  

http://www.usahockey.com/page/show/839306-membership-statistics

What?  See the difference from '90 to '15.  That's triple.

[Shawn-O]

What?  See the difference from '90 to '15.  That's triple.

I only went back 10 years, it's 4% if you go all the way back to '90.  

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579350892629229918

Your are right in that growth in hockey far exceeds growth in baseball, football, basketball, and soccer.  However, the absolute numbers remain minuscule relatively speaking.  How about lacrosse, wow!   

Edited December 10, 2015 by Shawn-O

[SiouxVolley]

Denver is almost certainly pulling all the strings they have to get in a future PAC12 hockey and even lacrosse conference, as they have ambitions.  That would leave the NCHC essentially a MAC and Northern Sun league.  That's not where UND wants to be in the future.  Some fans pine for Michigan Tech and Mankato as conference mates.  They may get their wish if UND isn't proactive.

 

 

[The Phoenix]

I think hockey will always be king at UND, but to suggest it is somehow more popular than NDSU football is hard to justify.  The NDSU/UNI game on ESPN had over 1.6 million viewers.  Here are the numbers from the 13 televised NCAA hockey tourney games last year:

BU-Prov 635k ESPN
BU-UND 290K ESPN2
Denver-BC .1 241K ESPN2
Prov-Omaha 196k ESPN2
UMD-BU .1 158k ESPN2
SCSU-UND .1 148k ESPNU
Quinn-UND .1 122k ESPNU
RIT-OMAH .1 115k ESPNU
MN-UMD .1 113k ESPNU
Prov-Denver .1 84k ESPNU
Yale-BU .0 63k ESPNU
Prov-Miami .0 62k ESPNU
RIT-Mankato .0 57k ESPNU

With all this said, if UND wants to be noticed on a national stage, they need to invest in basketball and football.  I do not think that needs to be mutually exclusive from supporting hockey, but some sports may need to be shuttered.

 

[Walsh Hall]

I personally always looked at the lower divisions of a sport as just that, a lower division.  Not a shot at them, that's just the way it is.  I was very pleased when UND won a DII championship.  It's a nice accomplishment.  What NDSU has done is very impressive.  It's great for the University and the State.

I personally prefer to watch the best competition at a given level.  If a team wins a 9 man state championship that's the peak of what they can do. 

When a youth hockey program wins the Bantam B state title I'm not going to be bragging.  They are the best of the lousiest.  It's nice that you're the best of the folks that couldn't cut it at the A level.  I guess I look at the lower levels of all collegiate sports that way. 

[Walsh Hall]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2015 at 8:57 PM, fightingsioux4life said:

The goal of UND athletics should be to attain success at ALL sports.

That means MBB making the NCAA tournament.

That means WBB making the NCAA tournament (already happened once)

That means FB winning conference and national championships.

That means MH winning conference and national championships.

That means WH winning conference and national championships.

Notice what I did there? I didn't pit one sport against another and turn this into a game of false choices and further perpetuating the myth that this is all a zero-sum game. I want UND to succeed in all it's endeavors (academics, athletics and research). That should be our focus, not this petty debate of football vs. hockey vs. basketball vs. whatever else.

I would hope we all want success, but there may be a difference in how success is defined.    Is winning a DIII title more of a success than being an also-ran at the highest level?  Would you rather be a lower level powerhouse or middle of the pack up a level?

[jdub27]

3 hours ago, The Phoenix said:

I think hockey will always be king at UND, but to suggest it is somehow more popular than NDSU football is hard to justify.  The NDSU/UNI game on ESPN had over 1.6 million viewers.  Here are the numbers from the 13 televised NCAA hockey tourney games last year:

Just want to add a little context to your post.

The NCAA hockey finals were broadcast Saturday night in primetime against Nascar (Fox - 4.65 million), Boxing(NBC - 2.62 million) and CSI/Criminal Mind (CBS - 4.62/3.88 million), 20/20/In An Instant (2.48/2.89 million) not to mention was on Masters weekend.

NDSU's game was broadcast at 11:00 a.m on a Saturday morning/afternoon and went against Power Rangers Dino (Nick - 1.3 million), Big Easy Reno (HGTV - 1.1 million), Valerie's Home Cooking (Food - 1.0 million). On the Big 4, it went against Ohio State/UConn (CBS), UFC Road to the Octagon/Shark Shootout (Fox), EPL Soccer (NBC) and no clue what ABC showed at noon but World of X Games was at 1pm. The highest rated of those was Ohio State/UConn with something like a 0.9 share but no viewership numbers were listed.

 

My whole point is that using TV numbers is pointless, especially when you try to compare two different timeslots, 5 months apart from each other. If NDSU would have played the Friday night game on ESPN2, I feel confident guess the rating would have been at least half of what it was.

How about we look at attendance of either some of the regional hockey games or at the attendance at the majority of the FCS playoff games. There are a few places that have very good attendance and then there is the majority which are basically a laughingstock for both sports. FCS football and D-1 hockey reside in the second tier, light years behind NCAA basketball and P5 football. There is nothing wrong with that, it is just the reality of the situation.

[The Phoenix]

14 hours ago, jdub27 said:

If NDSU would have played the Friday night game on ESPN2, I feel confident guess the rating would have been at least half of what it was.

I liked your post, but we can easily answer this with semi-final historical context:

2012 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs GSU, 974k

2013 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs UNH 813k

2014 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs SHSU, 790k 

Those are all semi-final Friday night games.  And all of them crush the championship hockey game.  I respect folks who don't care and only care about hockey since it is played at the highest level, but you will never be known on a national basis.

[stoneySIOUX]

On 12/8/2015 at 8:47 PM, dlsiouxfan said:

If UND won a championship in FCS football it would be a much bigger deal than any of the hockey titles.  Most schools actually participate in and care about football.  There are like 10 schools in the whole country that can say that about hockey. 

Hahahahahahahaha. Oh, wait. You're serious? Oh. Well, that's cute.

Are you talking about just for you? If so, alright. But it'd be a much bigger deal to GF for the hockey team to win one, IMO.

I love the football team, but no. Just, no.

[UND1983]

30 minutes ago, The Phoenix said:

I liked your post, but we can easily answer this with semi-final historical context:

2012 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs GSU, 974k

2013 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs UNH 813k

2014 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs SHSU, 790k 

 

Those are all semi-final Friday night games.  And all of them crush the championship hockey game.  I respect folks who don't care and only care about hockey since it is played at the highest level, but you will never be known on a national basis.

Why do you keep bringing up hockey?

[Redneksioux]

On December 10, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Shawn-O said:

 

32 minutes ago, The Phoenix said:

I liked your post, but we can easily answer this with semi-final historical context:

2012 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs GSU, 974k

2013 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs UNH 813k

2014 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs SHSU, 790k 

 

Those are all semi-final Friday night games.  And all of them crush the championship hockey game.  I respect folks who don't care and only care about hockey since it is played at the highest level, but you will never be known on a national basis.

Are you bragging about these numbers as they are supposed to look impressive? You are just showing that fcs football is irrelevant on the national level.

 

With that said people keep in mind college hockey is not the highest level of competition either. Many would argue Canadian juniors have a higher level of talent than NCAA d1 hockey.

[jdub27]

57 minutes ago, The Phoenix said:

I liked your post, but we can easily answer this with semi-final historical context:

2012 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs GSU, 974k

2013 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs UNH 813k

2014 Season
ESPN2: NDSU vs SHSU, 790k 

 

Those are all semi-final Friday night games.  And all of them crush the championship hockey game.  I respect folks who don't care and only care about hockey since it is played at the highest level, but you will never be known on a national basis.

So less than half 2 of the 3 years, proving that timeslot, channel and what is on other channels makes a significant difference. I'm still not sure how comparing events in different time slots, 5 months apart, makes any sort of a point? The numbers are what they are, but you're trying way to hard to prove a point that no one is arguing. The NCAA hockey tournament sells out every year in advance and is full regardless of who plays. Can the same be said about the FCS championship game? Both are second tier sports (by a huge margin). Thank you for providing information showing that neither FCS or D-1 hockey are even on the fringe of where FBS football and NCAA basketball are.

[petey23]

I was listening to Dan Patrick show yesterday and Dan and the Danettes were just kind of spitballing about the NFL and from there it spun into draft needs and then they started talking about QB's and how Carson Wentz from NDSU and the lower level might end up being the first QB taken in the draft. Then they discussed other QB's from that level who have had success(Romo, Flacco, etc.). One of the Danettes downplayed it a bit and Dan said "well we have all heard of NDSU" and while he was saying this one of the Danettes must have been pulling up Carson's stats for a little more background on him and then announced to the surprise of the entire staff that Wentz was in fact hurt and hadn't played in several weeks.....not one person in that room had any idea.

[jdub27]

4 minutes ago, petey23 said:

I was listening to Dan Patrick show yesterday and Dan and the Danettes were just kind of spitballing about the NFL and from there it spun into draft needs and then they started talking about QB's and how Carson Wentz from NDSU and the lower level might end up being the first QB taken in the draft. Then they discussed other QB's from that level who have had success(Romo, Flacco, etc.). One of the Danettes downplayed it a bit and Dan said "well we have all heard of NDSU" and while he was saying this one of the Danettes must have been pulling up Carson's stats for a little more background on him and then announced to the surprise of the entire staff that Wentz was in fact hurt and hadn't played in several weeks.....not one person in that room had any idea.

I'm surprised, you'd think that they would have been glued to their TV last Saturday and noticed he wasn't playing. I guess in their defense, it has only been 2 months since he's taken a snap, easy to miss that.

[stoneySIOUX]

1 hour ago, petey23 said:

I was listening to Dan Patrick show yesterday and Dan and the Danettes were just kind of spitballing about the NFL and from there it spun into draft needs and then they started talking about QB's and how Carson Wentz from NDSU and the lower level might end up being the first QB taken in the draft. Then they discussed other QB's from that level who have had success(Romo, Flacco, etc.). One of the Danettes downplayed it a bit and Dan said "well we have all heard of NDSU" and while he was saying this one of the Danettes must have been pulling up Carson's stats for a little more background on him and then announced to the surprise of the entire staff that Wentz was in fact hurt and hadn't played in several weeks.....not one person in that room had any idea.

Think they know who Jonathon Toews, Zach Parise and T.J. Oshie are? Just sayin *pokes Bison(z)*

[petey23]

14 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Think they know who Jonathon Toews, Zach Parise and T.J. Oshie are? Just sayin *pokes Bison(z)*

I wasn't going for that comparison but I am pretty sure they know those guys and they will know more about Wentz when he is in the NFL.

 

[Bison06]

32 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Think they know who Jonathon Toews, Zach Parise and T.J. Oshie are? Just sayin *pokes Bison(z)*

Honest answer: I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know a whole lot about Parise and Oshie. I've rarely heard them say much about hockey on that show.

[Siouxphan27]

 

 

[stoneySIOUX]

12 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

 

 

It's Christmas break for hockey. Not sure what else you woulda thought was going on here haha.