Target Center Upgrades

[Fetch]

There were some good places to eat in downtown Minneapolis - one Pizza place in particular we liked but I forget the name

[bigskyvikes]

1 minute ago, Fetch said:

There were some good places to eat in downtown Minneapolis - one Pizza place in particular we liked but I forget the name

Savoys

[MafiaMan]

49 minutes ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

Straw man with a hint of reductio ad absurdum.  Trying to disprove a statement by altering it to the point of absurdity.

 

Growing up in the cities I always preferred downtown Minneapolis to downtown St. Paul.  Much more for visitors to do and easier light rail access from the airport.  At least wait until the renovations are done at the Target Center before writing it off.

This straw man happened to attend the Final Fives held at Target Center in 1999 and 2000.  The only changes to the place since those days seem to be the different color Timberwolves logos on the basketball court.  I'm not sure how that affects hockey though.

[Fetch]

12 minutes ago, bigskyvikes said:

Savoys

Yeah that sounds right they seem to know Italian food

[bigskyvikes]

Just now, Fetch said:

Yeah that sounds right they seem to know Italian food

Lol, it is beautiful pizza! Juicey Lucy, sonics, and Savoys. Oh yea,  and fighting Sioux hockey!!! Can't wait for the Frozen Faceoff!

[Cratter]

45 minutes ago, bigskyvikes said:

 Sonics.

You can pickup one of those slushies in Fargo for the road. 

[GFG]

8 hours ago, bale31 said:

I really think that if there is a combined tourney it will either be B10/WCHA or NCHC/WCHA. 

There are a couple of reasons for this...

1. The collective egos of the B10 and NCHC will make it very difficult for them to agree. Splitting revenues in that scenario would be a nightmare and seems like it would cause an impasse. There is something g to be said for having a good business relationship with those that you partner with. My guess is that as tone deaf as the b10 seems with their recent comments, they would demand the sun, earth and moon and ignore the fact that they've consistently been out drawn by the nchc and even the wcha last year (admittedly im comparing 2 different locations in 2015).

2. The attendance numbers seem like they fit better to plug in the wcha with either one (and frankly I think nchc and wcha fit nearly perfectly). Last year, the nchc averaged 11,563 and wcha averaged 7,524, or 19,087 total. The b10 the last time it was at the X averaged 8,522, if you combine that with the nchc that's 20,085. That's 1500 over capacity. 

I very well may be wrong and am seeing this with a wcha slant, but that seems like better business to me.

At this point I think it's safe to say the B1G will be involved if it happens. They're the one conference that's brought it up. With that being said, I would bet money that it's with the WCHA if it happens. Financially the NCHC would make sense, but I don't think they'd do it. They're set on making their own brand. So I would bet money on the WCHA/B1G and I'm assuming they would have a contract that benefits both conferences to get each of them larger profits. The B1G couldn't screw them over because if it was a screwjob the WCHA wouldn't be dumb enough to sign the contract.

 

[Blackheart]

8 hours ago, LeftyZL said:

How difficult is it to move to the lower levels? Do they really check tickets that closely?

I went two years ago and had lower level tix.  Every time I went up to get drinks or the bathroom, they made me show my ticket stub to get back into the section.  I made the other usher, standing there doing nothing, hold the 3 beers I had just purchased while I dug the ticket stub out of my back pocket.,,What a joke...After the Sioux scored a goal, some fans were pounding on the glass and the ushers came down and threatened to kick them out if they did it again.  The place was dirty, especially the seats, and it was in need of some basic maintenance.  The railing down to our seats was missing/broken off so navigation up and down was a little dicey.  We also had to get wristbands at some point, don't remember exactly why but it was a huge pain in the ass as they didn't have enough staff to handle the crowd.

That was just my experience; still great to be able to see the Sioux but was surprised at how clueless and disorganized Target Center staff was dealing with the hockey crowd.

[Cratter]

5 hours ago, Blackheart said:

 We also had to get wristbands at some point, don't remember exactly why but it was a huge pain in the ass as they didn't have enough staff to handle the crowd.

 

That was to get back in the arena if you planned to leave between games with the one ticket.

[siouxforcefans]

I thought last year was smoother than year 1 (not like that's saying all that much).  Hopefully the wristband debacle is fixed!  Drinks are expensive, but they have a good variety and I believe you can take your mixed drink to your seat (I prefer beer, but the Mrs. shakes it up).

As for showing your ticket; yes, every time.  But, if you haven't learned to have it out for them to see by the second time you enter your section, that's on you.

[bale31]

11 hours ago, GFG said:

At this point I think it's safe to say the B1G will be involved if it happens. They're the one conference that's brought it up. With that being said, I would bet money that it's with the WCHA if it happens. Financially the NCHC would make sense, but I don't think they'd do it. They're set on making their own brand. So I would bet money on the WCHA/B1G and I'm assuming they would have a contract that benefits both conferences to get each of them larger profits. The B1G couldn't screw them over because if it was a screwjob the WCHA wouldn't be dumb enough to sign the contract.

 

Right, the wcha wouldn't sign it. That's why I'm not sure it would happen. Bill Robertson has been pretty vocal about it and the b10 has talked about it. The nchc has denied any talks about it at all.

There are a couple of things that could turn things on their head though. I don't think the announcement from scsu is going to be the last one. Universities all over the place are running a shortfall. Maybe that will jar schools enough to realize they can't keep doing what they are right now.

The other is another round of realignments. I'm still not sure this is all done. There are a lot of rumors of dissatisfaction all over the place and they seem to revolve around the same schools. If that happens, who knows where this all ends up.

[Goon]

15 minutes ago, bale31 said:

Right, the wcha wouldn't sign it. That's why I'm not sure it would happen. Bill Robertson has been pretty vocal about it and the b10 has talked about it. The nchc has denied any talks about it at all.

There are a couple of things that could turn things on their head though. I don't think the announcement from scsu is going to be the last one. Universities all over the place are running a shortfall. Maybe that will jar schools enough to realize they can't keep doing what they are right now.

The other is another round of realignments. I'm still not sure this is all done. There are a lot of rumors of dissatisfaction all over the place and they seem to revolve around the same schools. If that happens, who knows where this all ends up.

The dissatisfaction is coming from a handful of beat writers and a blogger or two that hate everything NCHC. They started this grumbling before the NCHC played their first game. Seriously, If Miami, Western want to pay a an expensive fee to get out of the NCHC and go join a less attractive option, i.e.. the CCHA part two. By all means, know yourselves out.

[iluvdebbies]

4 minutes ago, Goon said:

The dissatisfaction is coming from a handful of beat writers and a blogger or two that hate everything NCHC. They started this grumbling before the NCHC played their first game. Seriously, If Miami, Western want to pay a an expensive fee to get out of the NCHC and go join a less attractive option, i.e.. the CCHA part two. By all means.

Do you know what the fee is...or are you just guessing?

[Goon]

Just now, iluvdebbies said:

Do you know what the fee is...or are you just guessing?

Not guessing. I have been told that it's in the 2 million dollar range.

[chicofelipe]

22 minutes ago, Goon said:

The dissatisfaction is coming from a handful of beat writers and a blogger or two that hate everything NCHC. They started this grumbling before the NCHC played their first game. Seriously, If Miami, Western want to pay a an expensive fee to get out of the NCHC and go join a less attractive option, i.e.. the CCHA part two. By all means, know yourselves out.

I think Miami and WMU would be more amicable to the NCHC if they were seeing success in it. 

 

[Goon]

5 minutes ago, chicofelipe said:

I think Miami and WMU would be more amicable to the NCHC if they were seeing success in it. 

 

Of course, they're in one of the toughest leagues in college hockey. I've also thought it was interesting that the former CCHA teams have had little success in the new league. During the first Frozen Faceoff, I was talking to a Miami blogger and he was talking about how tough and expensive the travel in the NCHC was. I said that the WCHA traveled for years and you didn't hear them grumbling about it. Well except maybe the Alaska schools.

[bale31]

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but when there is continued rumors about the same school, you just never know. There are also rumors about wcha schools, I'm not sure those are entirely true. 

What is undeniable, though, is that the finances of schools are getting worse. That can't and won't just be ignored for long. At that point, it's not an emotional decision as people seem to want to make it. It's a necessary change, just like scsu's was.

[Goon]

1 minute ago, bale31 said:

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but when there is continued rumors about the same school, you just never know. There are also rumors about wcha schools, I'm not sure those are entirely true. 

What is undeniable, though, is that the finances of schools are getting worse. That can't and won't just be ignored for long. At that point, it's not an emotional decision as people seem to want to make it. It's a necessary change, just like scsu's was.

But where are these teams going to go?

[bale31]

8 minutes ago, chicofelipe said:

I think Miami and WMU would be more amicable to the NCHC if they were seeing success in it. 

 

I think that's a short-sighted way to look at it. Frankly, it's not about on ice success. It's about money. Once the conferences changed, it became all about the money. It's no different than basketball or football in that respect any longer.

[chicofelipe]

1 hour ago, bale31 said:

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but when there is continued rumors about the same school, you just never know. There are also rumors about wcha schools, I'm not sure those are entirely true. 

What is undeniable, though, is that the finances of schools are getting worse. That can't and won't just be ignored for long. At that point, it's not an emotional decision as people seem to want to make it. It's a necessary change, just like scsu's was.

What change did SCSU make that I missed?

[farce poobah]

11 minutes ago, chicofelipe said:

What change did SCSU make that I missed?

http://www.startribune.com/st-cloud-state-dropping-6-sports-programs/370796061/

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

2 hours ago, bale31 said:

I think that's a short-sighted way to look at it. Frankly, it's not about on ice success. It's about money. Once the conferences changed, it became all about the money. It's no different than basketball or football in that respect any longer.

On-ice success = more tickets sold + more merchandise sold + more vendor sales = more $

On-ice success and money are not mutually exclusive

[bale31]

3 hours ago, Goon said:

But where are these teams going to go?

Who knows...but it would not surprise me to see regionally based conferences. It all about holding expenses down.

[bale31]

40 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

On-ice success = more tickets sold + more merchandise sold + more vendor sales = more $

On-ice success and money are not mutually exclusive

Sure, when fan bases are unlimited that's true. It's not realistic for many schools. St cloud has been hovering around 4500 avg attendance for the last 4 years...that's great years and not so good years. Before that it seems like something funky was going on since they averaged 115% of capcity. Miami has gone from 3000 down to 2500. In the grand scheme of things, 500 tix isn't that big of a deal.

Think about it this way, if you're talking 500 tix difference at $20 per that's $10000 per game. Now, look at Miami travel costs now versus a regional conference. It costs a lot of cash to fly that many people. Compare that with bussing kids (and potentially eliminating a night in a hotel). At worst it's a wash. Add to that, kids can stay in classes more. Fans are happy they can go to more away games. And administrators can claim they are doing everything they can.

Look, again, I'm not saying anything will happen. I'm just saying that it used to be more of a direct correlation of winning and making money. In today's world it's all about controlling expenses and not about what happens on the ice when making essential decisions like conferences.

[Sioux>Bison]

The Target Center is a disaster of a hockey venue and it won't get better at hosting a tourney if they don't make some big changes and updates to the ice, boards, seats etc. it will not be a better venue without these changes and without changes to the way the tourney is managed. The tourney is a disgrace to one of the best hockey leagues in the country.

the tickets should be cheap becaus of how big a joke the target center is.