College Hockey Expansion

[The Sicatoka]

2 minutes ago, GFG said:

Omaha hockey would be no threat to Nebraska athletics. Nebraska isn't adding hockey. 

This is why I'd see UNO being ahead of UMD (if this all happens and it's not UND). 

[Blackheart]

12 minutes ago, GFG said:

Those tickets are sold. Pretty much all tickets have been the last few years. People have tickets and don't show up for whatever reason. It's stupid because prices stay high since the tickets are "sold". That's why Minnesota started selling $10 standing room tickets the week of the games towards the end of last season. So people that wanted to go could buy them and use the seats

That's even worse IMO.  The product or opponent on the ice is so unlikable you would rather eat the ticket than go to the game?  Yikes.

[Yote 53]

You guys haven't spent much time down in Lincoln, have you?

[The Sicatoka]

3 minutes ago, Yote 53 said:

Building a 6,000 seat arena in IC/Coralville for the fun of it?  Sure.

Last I read they don't have all their financing in order yet. 
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/business/2016/06/17/state-awards-12-million-toward-coralville-arena/86033032/

[GFG]

2 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Hockey has little to no bearing on the TV contract/revenues that the B1G schools get from the B1G Network, but that is where any money that UND gets would have to come from. There are 8 schools who don't play hockey and plus I really don't think UND is going to bring a huge amount of fans to Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State or Ohio State. I'm not saying its not possible and the original post even states it is an uphill battle, but you're going to have to convince over half the conference to give up some of their money regardless of how small of the amount is, relatively speaking.

 

They very well may, and it needs to benefit both sides. I just see it as a hard sell to 8 out of 14 schools that it doesn't benefit at all plus a few more that will see minimal benefit.

The extra money comes from having more live sporting events televised on BTN/FOX networks. You can charge more for advertisements with live sports than non-live shows on the network. This would likely lead to some UND home games not on BTN to being on FSN/FSN+ (UND could produce it all in house and take in extra money that would normally go to a place like Midco). And a game with UND you might be able to charge more for advertisements if you prove they have higher viewership numbers than others. I'm pretty sure it's not a coincidence that Minnesota is on BTN so much more than the other B1G schools. More viewers and a large metro area to draw that core audience from. I guarantee UND brings more viewers to the table than anyone in the conference but Minnesota. On top of that UND will also bring them good numbers from the Twin Cities metro, which is probably their major market for college hockey.

Obviously I can't say all of this would be 100% true, but it seems to make sense. Just fun to speculate.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

31 minutes ago, GFG said:

Those tickets are sold. Pretty much all tickets have been the last few years. People have tickets and don't show up for whatever reason. It's stupid because prices stay high since the tickets are "sold". That's why Minnesota started selling $10 standing room tickets the week of the games towards the end of last season. So people that wanted to go could buy them and use the seats

IMO I think that sort of acts as a sort of metaphor for Big10 vs NCHC

"Come on over to the BIG UND, we have more money! Btw the product on the ice might suffer due to weaker OOC records, priorities at BIG institutions etc.... BUT WE HAVE LOTS OF MONEY!"

[GFG]

13 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Last I read they don't have all their financing in order yet. 
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/business/2016/06/17/state-awards-12-million-toward-coralville-arena/86033032/

They still said no. A few guys on GPL have lived down there and said there's no way it would ever happen. Like you said, though, financing. Not a chance in hell Iowa takes millions of dollars that could potentially be spent on football or basketball and starts up men's and women's hockey programs. Once again, a donor is needed.

[GFG]

29 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

IMO I think that sort of acts as a sort of metaphor for Big10 vs NCHC

"Come on over to the BIG UND, we have more money! Btw the product on the ice might suffer due to weaker OOC records, priorities at BIG institutions etc.... BUT WE HAVE LOTS OF MONEY!"

B1G is #2 this year in OOC records. If you move UND to the B1G this year the B1G has a better OOC record than the NCHC.

B1G w/ UND: 52-31-13 (.609)

NCHC w/o UND: 32-19-12 (.603)

So no, the B1G is not that much weaker than the NCHC right now and it appears as though the teams are improving, UND is the difference. If it was that weak then maybe UND would've actually gotten a win in their 4 games against B1G teams this year. (sorry, just making a point)

[bigskyvikes]

This is some great and interesting back and forth on here! I've been reading this all day, keep it up everyone!

[UNDBIZ]

Whatever conference UND is in will be the best conference in the country.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

Getting the Summit on board was a cake wake.

Getting the MVFC on board was a challenge. Took some time and a lot of work behind the scenes. The Summit members in the MVFC helped us. The verdict was in the GF Herald before the presidents of the MVFC voted. Job well done. 

Getting the B1G and UND to agree on UND joining the B1Ghc is a huge undertaking. This time we are potentially being asked, but as an affiliate. The UND side has a small table in their huddle, and can make decisions relatively quickly. Quickness ends there. The B1G's huddle needs a ball room, with discussions and messages sent to home bases. And, many meetings.  Of the 14 full members, 8 don't have Div I hockey. They don't want to start it, probably don't care much about it, probably don't care how much money each of the B1G6hc make/loose on hockey, probably resistant to UND getting money out of B1G in away, and etc. Lot of speculation there on my part.  John Hopkins and Notre Dame joined as affiliates without a media demand with the BTN, they'll take care of their own home games, pretty clean. May not be that way with UND, we can walk away, but we really don't want too. We need some solid agreements in place to make this move, many of which prior posters have mentioned.

[Blackheart]

3 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Getting the Summit on board was a cake wake.

Getting the MVFC on board was a challenge. Took some time and a lot of work behind the scenes. The Summit members in the MVFC helped us. The verdict was in the GF Herald before the presidents of the MVFC voted. Job well done. 

Getting the B1G and UND to agree on UND joining the B1Ghc is a huge undertaking. This time we are potentially being asked, but as an affiliate. The UND side has a small table in their huddle, and can make decisions relatively quickly. Quickness ends there. The B1G's huddle needs a ball room, with discussions and messages sent to home bases. And, many meetings.  Of the 14 full members, 8 don't have Div I hockey. They don't want to start it, probably don't care much about it, probably don't care how much money each of the B1G6hc make/loose on hockey, probably resistant to UND getting money out of B1G in away, and etc. Lot of speculation there on my part.  John Hopkins and Notre Dame joined as affiliates without a media demand with the BTN, they'll take care of their own home games, pretty clean. May not be that way with UND, we can walk away, but we really don't want too. We need some solid agreements in place to make this move, many of which prior posters have been mentioned.

Somebody referenced UND having to pay to join this conference; what is the likelihood of that happening? (or is that an Alternative fact?)

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

1 minute ago, Blackheart said:

Somebody referenced UND having to pay to join this conference; what is the likelihood of that happening? (or is that an Alternative fact?)

I don't fully understand what that poster meant by that. I wouldn't think that would be an annual thing, maybe like an initial membership charge to join. To me it would be more like, if you want us, help us with our bail money to get of the NCHC?

[The Sicatoka]

10 minutes ago, Blackheart said:

Somebody referenced UND having to pay to join this conference; what is the likelihood of that happening? (or is that an Alternative fact?)

Really? You may have misinterpreted something. 

The dollars I've seen mentioned are the NCHC exit fee ($1 million-ish) and things like revenue sharing and media rights. 

[Blackheart]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

Really? You may have misinterpreted something. 

The dollars I've seen mentioned are the NCHC exit fee ($1 million-ish) and things like revenue sharing and media rights. 

Ok, thanks..thought I read we had to give P1G money to join them.  Was not making sense.

I picked the wrong week to stop taking amphetamines. - Airplane (the movie)

[Yote 53]

Personally, I don't want UND to join the BIG.  I think if offered UND should join in a heartbeat but I don't want this to happen.  The reason is that if UND joins the BIG it solves the problems for the BIG hockey playing schools.  The conference will settle in at 8 and everything will be fine.  I want the BIG to stay at 7, or better yet Notre Dame leave for the NCHC and drop it to 6.  Why?  Because I want those 6 BIG hockey playing schools to put so much pressure on their other conference mates to start programs that it will become unbearable.  I want incentives by the BTN for BIG schools to start programs.  I want hockey at Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Rutgers, Northwestern, etc. and pressure and incentives from their BIG partners is the best way for it to happen.

Whatever happens UND will be fine because as a previous poster mentioned, whatever conference UND belongs to IS the BEST conference.

[Rebel_Sioux]

16 hours ago, GFG said:

B1G is #2 this year in OOC records. If you move UND to the B1G this year the B1G has a better OOC record than the NCHC.

B1G w/ UND: 52-31-13 (.609)

NCHC w/o UND: 32-19-12 (.603)

So no, the B1G is not that much weaker than the NCHC right now and it appears as though the teams are improving, UND is the difference. If it was that weak then maybe UND would've actually gotten a win in their 4 games against B1G teams this year. (sorry, just making a point)

The problem is that Big Ten has a small sample size. This has been their one good year. Prior to this year they were barely better than Atlantic Hockey. Their success this year is largely thanks to Wisconsin improving, but it's hard to tell if this year is an outlier or if the conference as a whole will remain competitive. The honest answer, is they will probably remain strong (most years) now that they have Notre Dame on board. However, what is certain is that the NCHC has put more teams into the NCAA tournament than any other conference since it's formation.

Essentially, joining the Big Ten is a gamble. If we are being honest, the Big Ten will likely be a strong conference most years, but questions remain about finances, priorities and potential ejection (if/when another Big school adds hockey). However we know that the NCHC will always be a strong conference as long as UND is in it (even without us DU and UMD will keep it strong). Even if we lost UMD/UNO and added ASU (long term benefits) and/or Minnesota State (better team, more history), the conference would still be one of the strongest (Top 2) in D1 hockey.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

17 hours ago, GFG said:

B1G is #2 this year in OOC records. If you move UND to the B1G this year the B1G has a better OOC record than the NCHC.

B1G w/ UND: 52-31-13 (.609)

NCHC w/o UND: 32-19-12 (.603)

So no, the B1G is not that much weaker than the NCHC right now and it appears as though the teams are improving, UND is the difference. If it was that weak then maybe UND would've actually gotten a win in their 4 games against B1G teams this year. (sorry, just making a point)

DERP Maybe if the Big was any good they'd have more than one frozen four appearance in 3 years and actually have a national championship DERP!!!

(Sorry, just making a point)

It's hilarious "making a point" for you involves singling out one team(that just so happens to be the board you're on) in a 4 game stretch and extrapolated it to 4 years of league play since the BIG and NCHC were formed... try harder

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

NCHC's record vs Big 10 since formation of leagues:

10-9-1

15-2-0

15-1-1

9-4-4

For a total W/L of 49-16-6 and an absolutely dominant win % of 73.2. All of this despite UND's less than stellar record against Big10 opponents, yet we want to join their league? Sounds like a good way to start playing down to the competition and being ill-prepared come NCAA tourney time.

[Siouxperfan7]

41 minutes ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

The problem is that Big Ten has a small sample size. This has been their one good year. Prior to this year they were barely better than Atlantic Hockey. Their success this year is largely thanks to Wisconsin improving, but it's hard to tell if this year is an outlier or if the conference as a whole will remain competitive. The honest answer, is they will probably remain strong (most years) now that they have Notre Dame on board. However, what is certain is that the NCHC has put more teams into the NCAA tournament than any other conference since it's formation.

Essentially, joining the Big Ten is a gamble. If we are being honest, the Big Ten will likely be a strong conference most years, but questions remain about finances, priorities and potential ejection (if/when another Big school adds hockey). However we know that the NCHC will always be a strong conference as long as UND is in it (even without us DU and UMD will keep it strong). Even if we lost UMD/UNO and added ASU (long term benefits) and/or Minnesota State (better team, more history), the conference would still be one of the strongest (Top 2) in D1 hockey.

In the history of college hockey, has a school ever been "ejected" from the current conference they are in?  If UND joined the BTHC and all of a sudden Nebraska started a program and joined the conference, it would be a very unprecedented move by the B1G to kick a member out for the sole reason of "we don't need you anymore."

[The Sicatoka]

7 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

... it would be a very unprecedented move by the B1G to kick a member out for the sole reason of "we don't need you anymore."

Idaho and NMSU would like to speak to you about how their FB programs left the Sun Belt. (Hint: voted out, ejected)

[siouxfan512]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

Idaho and NMSU would like to speak to you about how their FB programs left the Sun Belt. (Hint: voted out, ejected)

Wasn't that mostly because the programs were garbage and not contributing much to the conference? Doubt that becomes the case with UND hockey.

[Siouxperfan7]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

Idaho and NMSU would like to speak to you about how their FB programs left the Sun Belt. (Hint: voted out, ejected)

Forgot about that.  I guess it would be unprecedented in the world of college hockey.  I still don't think that UND would ever be voted out of the BTHC if another B1G started hockey.  

[The Sicatoka]

Any decision, every decision, will come down to .... dollars. 

[jdub27]

12 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Any decision, every decision, will come down to .... dollars. 

And sense!