Legal question ?

[jdub27]

I guess part of me thinks just about any nickname can be made fun of, or slightly altered in a way to insult or jeer, so why worry about it? Pick a great nickname and go with it.

Couldn't agree with you more. Everything can and will be manipulated by opposing fans.

[fightingsioux4life]

I've got an idea, let's be the Sioux.

Think about it. Its a pretty good idea...

It would accomplish two things:

1. We would call ourselves by the name we have actually given ourselves a half century ago and the name EVERYONE knows us as AND the name we want to call ourselves. Not bad?!

2. With one simple act we could single handedly restore the notion of men doing what they want to do without the interference of insanity. I.e. doing the right thing.

-That number two there would be quite the accomplishment.

We could save ourselves. Saving humanity would be pretty cool wouldn't it? I know your saying how silly is yababy? He is trying to suggest that something as trivial as what nickname a bunch of goofballs in North Dakota call themselves has anything to do with the course of humanity?

Well I'll tell you how I'm looking at it; I see a bunch of people who have a love for something that is also a part of their identity being forced to put tape over their mouths and hide their colors in their closet at home. And they are being told they must do this by outside influences who do not have their best interests at heart, lie to them, CHANGE their justifications(first it was the Sioux people didn't want the name, then when that was dispelled it was to protect our women's tennis team), ignore the truths(the Sioux people shouted so loud that they wanted the school to keep the name it led to a federal law suit) and manipulate the relevancies(it was all about Hitler and racist white dudes) and the facts(north Dakotans did not vote to get rid of the name for any reason other than the threats of evil men who threatened to hurt our school if we did not bow to them).

Our inabilty to represent ourselves and effect out comes is, in my opinion where we are losing as a culture. If the media doesn't tell us to care- we don't. So to me this whole name change thing is a litmus test and right now we are on life support. So week we are. Subjugated to the whims of those with ill intent. Unable to fight for the simplest of rights. Pitted against each other for no gain or reason.

It is truly astonishingly unbelievable to me to witness this all happening. Such a shame and at the same time so pathetic. That's what I see and that is the symbology of both us letting our name be taken from us and the value that would be inherent in us turning our course toward rationality and simply declaring who we are

We are the Sioux. Its that simple.

Just say it. Don't be afraid. Its your name. Say it and don't stop. Why?? Because you want to that's why. We all do..

We are the Sioux!

Common Hak, put the cap on. Ya know you want to. Be a man! If you can't say who you are in public then what will you ever have in this world?

What will you become then?

You decide, don't let someone decide for you. Be who you want to be, what we ALL WANT TO BE! All of us want to be the Sioux.

WE ARE THE SIOUX!!

Whatever it is you are smoking, I'd like some please.

[Fetch]

Homesteaders

[Siouxphan27]

Do you think the connotation with the Trojans is different for USC than Roughriders would be for UND, just because USC selected that nickname back in 1912? I think the Sicatoka's point is if USC can be successful with the Trojans UND can be successful with the Roughriders or Roughriders or however you want to say it.

I'm personally not concerned with the connotation. Cripes, if the State of ND can survive with Roughriders as an unofficial nickname I think UND will do quite well using that as an official nickname, given the marketing that will go along with why the nickname was selected, and with how the nickname will be used and any potential logo.

I guess part of me thinks just about any nickname can be made fun of, or slightly altered in a way to insult or jeer, so why worry about it? Pick a great nickname and go with it. Roughriders works for me, since no one else likes the "Iron Horses". :-)

I agree any name can be made fun of. I should have expanded more on why I don't like roughriders.....it's not just because of the connotation. I just plain don't like the name. Plus, and more importantly, it's a complete fallacy of that this group was part of north Dakota's heritage. It's been promoted by the ND State Tourism Department, Medora, etc., to the point people now believe the Roughriders had anything to do with north Dakota. (yes, I realize Teddy liked North Dakota and spent some time here...) I would encourage anyone with a few minutes to read the actual, factual history of the Roughriders that some are suggesting we nickname UND after. The Roughriders history reads like a Monty Python script. here's a synopsis:

Around a thousand volunteers were gathered in four areas: Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas. They trained in the heat to prepare themselves for Cuba. They trained on horseback as a cavalry. But, due to the stupidity of a Major General who instructed them to leave for war before transportation was arranged, 1/3 of the 12 companies had to stay home, along with most of their horses and pack mules. The men were severely hampered by not having the horses they trained for battle with, or the mules to carry their supplies while in Cuba.

So, the roughriders left their horses at home. Brilliant! 1/4 of the men that trained, died of malaria or yellow fever. Yeehaw! Bully!

Sodbusters, or Homesteaders are good names.

[MafiaMan]

I agree any name can be made fun of. I should have expanded more on why I don't like roughriders.....it's not just because of the connotation. I just plain don't like the name. Plus, and more importantly, it's a complete fallacy of that this group was part of north Dakota's heritage. It's been promoted by the ND State Tourism Department, Medora, etc., to the point people now believe the Roughriders had anything to do with north Dakota. (yes, I realize Teddy liked North Dakota and spent some time here...) I would encourage anyone with a few minutes to read the actual, factual history of the Roughriders that some are suggesting we nickname UND after. The Roughriders history reads like a Monty Python script. here's a synopsis:

Around a thousand volunteers were gathered in four areas: Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas. They trained in the heat to prepare themselves for Cuba. They trained on horseback as a cavalry. But, due to the stupidity of a Major General who instructed them to leave for war before transportation was arranged, 1/3 of the 12 companies had to stay home, along with most of their horses and pack mules. The men were severely hampered by not having the horses they trained for battle with, or the mules to carry their supplies while in Cuba.

So, the roughriders left their horses at home. Brilliant! 1/4 of the men that trained, died of malaria or yellow fever. Yeehaw! Bully!

Sodbusters, or Homesteaders are good names.

Couldn't agree more with what you're saying. The state of ND has beaten to death the propaganda, er, idea, that Roughriders, Teddy Roosevelt, and North Dakota, are synonymous with each other. They're about as close together as Wolverines and Spartans are in the Detroit area.

Besides, don't we need permission from descendants of actual Roughriders to see if they indeed approve of the "honor" of such a nickname?

I still like the idea of Mustangs...but not the horse kind...the P-51 kind. Of course, though, there's that damn condom thing again...d'oh.

[The Sicatoka]

Here's the bigger issue: Why are we still having to deal with this?

Arkansas State dealt with their issue head-on and it's long since a memory (per Wikipedia):

Nickname

Indians (1931–2008)

The school's sports teams were nicknamed "Indians" in honor of the Osage Nation that inhabited the area until the 1800s.[1][2] The name “Indians” officially became the school’s athletic nickname in 1931 following “Aggies” in 1911 (sometimes called “Farmers”), “Gorillas” in 1925, and then “Warriors” in 1930.[3]

Arkansas State officially retired the Indian mascot on February 28, 2008 during the last home basketball game of the season. The school retained the Indians nickname for the remainder of the 2007–08 school year.

Red Wolves

On January 31, 2008, Arkansas State University’s Mascot Selection Steering Committee decided to use the "Wolves" as a mascot.[4] The Red Wolves was officially approved by the NCAA on March 7, 2008.[5] The unveiling ceremony for the new Red Wolves logo was held on March 13, 2008.

So let's see, new announced, old retired, NCAA on board, all in six weeks.

And here we are still festering with this issue six years or more.

And I guarantee you that there were Arkansas State fans that despised the "Red Wolves" moniker and logo when it came out ... but that's nearly a decade ago already.

[UNDBIZ]

Sodbusters, or Homesteaders are good names.

Yuk. I'd rather go with something aviation-related and I dislike the aviation-related names.

[The Sicatoka]

Sodbusters

So, Sod for short? Uh ... really?

[zonadub]

How about "Sodbusters"?

Wouldn't Sodbusters be a better fit for the College of Agriculture and Home Economics?

[Fetch]

Siouxphan very well said

[JohnboyND7]

Wouldn't Sodbusters be a better fit for the College of Agriculture and Home Economics?

I'll talk to my boys in the horticulture department and have them send you some samples to choose from.

[petey23]

So, Sod for short? Uh ... really?

Only if we adopt the very capable Kenny "Sodbuster" Jay as our mascot!

[The Sicatoka]

Couldn't it be said that a Rough Rider is anyone who chooses to follow the leadership of Teddy Roosevelt.

[Blackheart]

How about the UND Cliffords after Tom Clifford? The logo could be that big red dog.

[MafiaMan]

Couldn't it be said that a Rough Rider is anyone who chooses to follow the leadership of Teddy Roosevelt.

I think they were actually considered "Progressives" or "Bull Moose"...

[darell1976]

I think they were actually considered "Progressives" or "Bull Moose"...

The UND Fighting Moose, sponsored by the Blue Moose "a place in East Grand Forks".

[The Sicatoka]

Can't be the Bull Moose --> sexist.

[The Sicatoka]

I think they were actually considered "Progressives" or "Bull Moose"...

Depends on the who/when/where he was leading.

[runaroundsioux]

Just off the top of my head...

3. It would be a constant circus full of distractions. The Walk for Change would be just a preview of what you would continue to see. I'm sure all the student athletes would be real excited that the protests, letters and comments where a nickname is the focus instead of their performance on the field and in the classroom. Sounds like something people would be excited to sign up for.

4. Per the settlement, the teams can't use the Sioux nickname in postseason play regardless or the games are forfeited. All the coaches, particularly Hak, would be excited to know that their season is over once the regular season/conference tournament has concluded.

Most people aren't excited about losing the Sioux name or having to choose a new one. But that doesn't change that we will always be The University of North Dakota. That's the name student-athletes sign up to play for. That's the name alumni and fans donate to and cheer for. That's the one thing that has never changed.

Lighten up, Francis. He was venting.

[Hayduke]

Wouldn't Sodbusters be a better fit for the College of Agriculture and Home Economics?

I thought FU was officially the University of Home Economics?

[Siouxphan27]

So, Sod for short? Uh ... really?

so...."Rough" for short? uhhh.....ok.

[Siouxphan27]

Couldn't it be said that a Rough Rider is anyone who chooses to follow the leadership of Teddy Roosevelt.

Color me green and white, but I guess I don't understand the obsession with teddy Roosevelt or what influence he had on the university of north Dakota.

[The Sicatoka]

Color me green and white, but I guess I don't understand the obsession with teddy Roosevelt or what influence he had on the university of north Dakota.

Roosevelt had about as much to do with the founding of UND in 1883 as the Standing Rock and Spirit Lake Sioux Nations did.

[yababy8]

Here's the bigger issue: Why are we still having to deal with this?

Arkansas State dealt with their issue head-on and it's long since a memory (per Wikipedia):

So let's see, new announced, old retired, NCAA on board, all in six weeks.

And here we are still festering with this issue six years or more.

And I guarantee you that there were Arkansas State fans that despised the "Red Wolves" moniker and logo when it came out ... but that's nearly a decade ago already.

B

I suppose the best way to answer your ridiculous question is not all nicknames are created equal. But honestly if someone needs to be told that they really have no business espousing an opinion on the matter. You might as well claim that we are getting rid of the name because the Sioux people wanted it gone...

[The Sicatoka]

No, my question is not ridiculous. If UND was going to give in to the NCAA why didn't it close the deal right away, ala Arkansas State. This pussy-footing around and letting it fester for years, approaching a decade, is good for no one.

To be clear, my view on the matter is: I don't have to agree with it; Hell, I don't even have to like it; but I have to deal with it because it is the reality.

We are not dealing with reality. Kudos to Arkansas State for dealing with reality and moving on.