The Big Sky Concern

[Cratter]

My problem with that was they didn't actually quote Douple. It was an impression that the reporter got from an individual. No actual allegation. What actually happened could have been very simple and innocent or very incriminating. And Douple wouldn't answer any follow-ups. He also refused interviews on KFGO in Fargo and KNOX in Grand Forks, plus I believe he refused to talk to the Grand Forks Herald. Not enough smoke for me to call it a fire.

Does it really matter if it wasn't a exact quote to you? The guy was in the room asking the guy questions. He came to that conclusion...its like wow, believe what you want....but. The guy in the room probably has more knowledge on the issue than you or me. He sat next to him and talked. None of us can claim that yet we discredit him cause we don't like what he reported.

Also he refused to talk because, maybe, yes he had a chip, got his point out, but now also knows maybe UND might/will/probably still be a member of the conference someday....as long as every Dakota school is but UND.....money saver. Rivalry saver.

[82SiouxGuy]

Does it really matter if it wasn't a exact quote to you? The guy was in the room asking the guy questions. He came to that conclusion...its like wow, believe what you want....but. The guy in the room probably has more knowledge on the issue than you or me. He sat next to him and talked. None of us can claim that yet we discredit him cause we don't like what he reported.

Also he refused to talk because, maybe, yes he had a chip, got his point out, but now also knows maybe UND might/will/probably still be a member of the conference someday....as long as every Dakota school is but UND.....money saver. Rivalry saver.

Yes it matters whether it was an exact quote. That's why reporters use quotes in their stories. It is much more accurate. There are too few facts to believe such an inflamatory statement.

It is hard to believe that a conference would allow it's commissioner to go that far out on a limb, to make statements about a school that isn't a member, unless those statements were true. That's why I believe that the Summit was serious about its statements on UND and membership. No one has ever come up with a good reason why the Summit would lie for UND, especially when it wasn't a member. Kelley and UND didn't have that kind of pull with the Summit. The pieces don't add up. That, along with the same reasons that Teeder listed above, are why I don't put a lot of faith in Mr. Kolpack and that story.

[Cratter]

It would also be weird if a whole newspaper article was in quotes to satisfy a certain category of readers.

[Cratter]

First you say you only believe quotes....ok here you go (from the same article):

again, I will wait for the discredit part, from an anonymous poster, ...

"Commissioner Douple did not want to go into further detail on the issue, but when asked why he agreed to UND’s request – that the Summit League would publicly forward this idea – he said, “In support of the (UND) president. He thought it would help them and the board move quicker.” "

(this is from a newspaper newspaper article)

What is he talking about " help the board move quicker." new presidents mansion?

You happy? Those are quotes...let me guess No you aren't?

Guy can never win with great facts.

[82SiouxGuy]

First you say you only believe quotes....ok here you go (from the same article):

again, I will wait for the discredit part, from an anonymous poster, ...

(this is from a newspaper newspaper article)

What is he talking about " help the board move quicker." new presidents mansion?

You happy? Those are quotes...let me guess No you aren't?

Guy can never win with innuendo.

I am well acquainted with the article. Again, it doesn't add up because there aren't enough facts to make the connection. We went through this a year ago. People jumped to a conclusion based on emotion. Douple didn't say exactly what happened in detail, he just threw out a vague allegation. Not even enough to indict, much less convict. Oh, and I fixed your post.

[Cratter]

People jumped to a conclusion based on emotion.

Obviously talking about yourself.

I let you have the last word then, and I will do so again now, cause I dont' judge life by the internet.

It's pretty simple, I have facts with quotes...and you just choose not to believe them. Its cool. To each their own.

Good Night.

[petey23]

You're cute. You make me smile.

Listen, I don't know Tom Douple. Probably a nice enough guy, but I have never been in the same room with him nor do I know him enough to put total and utter faith in what he allegedly said to Jeff Kolpack, who I know only slightly better through my years spent in journalism (I know his brother much better than him.) What I do know is that I have complete trust in Dr. Kelley and Brian Faison, who I can visit and speak with on a daily basis if I I want. Hey, no one is going to win this one. I choose to trust someone I know. Others choose to put faith in a newspaper reporter and a conference commish with an axe to grind against UND. As a former reporter, I can tell you that, unfortunately, we do get things wrong, misquote, misconstrue, misunderstand so-called facts all the time. We also are known to not let the facts get in the way of a good story sometimes. Now, I'm not saying that Jeff did any of that, as I am more inclined to believe that Douple just flat out lied (in his pissed off state following UND's decision to go Big Sky). But again, that's my gut feeling based on who I feel is more deserving of my trust. I don't have proof that Douple lied any more than anyone else has proof that Kelley urged Douple to take a hard stand against the nickname. It's a "he said she said" scenario, and in that case, I will side with the people I know.

You want to match quotes? OK, but I don't know what it proves... it's one person's version of what happened over the other's, and it seems no one was around to corroborate any of it. So it's left up to us amateur internet jockeys to write and revise the history as we see fit. So, in that spirit, here goes:

Statement by University of North Dakota Athletic Director Brian Faison:

"I'm here today to respond to a report that the University of North Dakota "pressured" the Summit League to take stand against the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.

The University of North Dakota never asked the Summit League, or its commissioner, to take a stand against the nickname and logo.

In fact, the commissioner of the Summit League stated publicly, on more than one occasion over the past two years, that the university had to resolve the nickname and logo issue before they would consider us for membership. This resolution of the nickname and logo issue was always a precondition for league membership.

My position has always been that we need a resolution. My job was to find the best conference for the University of North Dakota, and that is the Big Sky Conference."

---------

UND spokesman Peter Johnson said Monday and repeated Tuesday that university President Robert Kelley “categorically denies” UND officials ever made such a request to the Summit League.

“False. Not true at all,” Johnson said. “Neither the president or the athletic director or anybody else from UND ever talked to (the Summit League) from that angle. In no way, shape or form did we ask (Douple) to make that an issue.”

Well I know Jeff Kolpack well enough to know he didn't make it up, so I guess that leaves 1 of the other 2 options. We do know that Douple had his hand forced by a certain A.D.'s erroneous statements on an area radio show when backed into a corner regarding scheduling a certain football team.

[WeAreNorthDakota]

Why does everyone keep saying that if UND can't schedule wisconsin and UMN it will be a huge loss for the program? Do you think this isn't going to be a loss for the gophers and badgers also? They lose just as much as UND does in the hockey department by not scheduling one of the top college hockey teams. There are plenty of good quality hockey teams in the new conference. This post is late but I just read through some of the posts that regarded hockey.

The difference is that, for us, the Minnesota and Wisconsin hockey series are 2 of the 3 or 4 biggest events of the year for our ENTIRE athletic department. For Minnesota and Wisconsin, the UND hockey series doesn't even come close to as important as any football or men's basketball game (I'll say any Big Ten basketball game for Minnesota). Hockey is, at best, the 3rd or 4th most important sport to those schools.

[Dolphinswin]

I really wish that we wouldn't even be doing this conference !@#$, your going from division 2 to division 1 AA... nothing special about AA really there's not... basically D2 schools trying to feel better about their programs. UND is a hockey school, that's what it should continue to be.

[GeauxSioux]

I really wish that we wouldn't even be doing this conference !@#$, your going from division 2 to division 1 AA... nothing special about AA really there's not... basically D2 schools trying to feel better about their programs. UND is a hockey school, that's what it should continue to be.

You do realize that the only thing I-AA (FCS) is football. Everything else is Division I.

[UND1983]

I really wish that we wouldn't even be doing this conference !@#$, your going from division 2 to division 1 AA... nothing special about AA really there's not... basically D2 schools trying to feel better about their programs. UND is a hockey school, that's what it should continue to be.

Add another one to list of who finally let out their true feelings about UND.

[homer]

Add another one to list of who finally let out their true feelings about UND.

And doesn't have the facts straight about what they are talking about.

[bincitysioux]

Douple first interjected himself into this debate back in January of 2009 when the legislature was toying with the idea of mandating a Sioux-Bison football game. NDSU's A.D. revealed one morning that the Summit discouraged all member schools from scheduling UND. Douple was interviewed by Dan Hammer that afternoon and Douple categorically denied ever discussing UND's nickname with any administrators of any of his schools. The next day Kolpack had an article in the Forum in which Douple said he discouraged his schools from scheduling UND.

Here is a fun walk down memory lane.

Kelley had been on the job for a whopping six months at the time. If you truly believe that a rookie college president had enough influence to set policy at a conference that they weren't affiliated with, and get the commissioner of said conference and the A.D. of our biggest rival to work in conjuction through the media to build steam for an anti-nickname agenda, then I have some ocean-front property in North Dakota for sale that you'll likely be interested in........................

[darell1976]

Douple first interjected himself into this debate back in January of 2009 when the legislature was toying with the idea of mandating a Sioux-Bison football game. NDSU's A.D. revealed one morning that the Summit discouraged all member schools from scheduling UND. Douple was interviewed by Dan Hammer that afternoon and Douple categorically denied ever discussing UND's nickname with any administrators of any of his schools. The next day Kolpack had an article in the Forum in which Douple said he discouraged his schools from scheduling UND.

Here is a fun walk down memory lane.

Kelley had been on the job for a whopping six months at the time. If you truly believe that a rookie college president had enough influence to set policy at a conference that they weren't affiliated with, and get the commissioner of said conference and the A.D. of our biggest rival to work in conjuction through the media to build steam for an anti-nickname agenda, then I have some ocean-front property in North Dakota for sale that you'll likely be interested in........................

A nice quote from that thread...by me!!

Posted 06 January 2009 - 06:31 PM

Maybe the Big Sky will welcome u s ... well maybe not. I say start looking for a new name now. The Summit officials are a--holes for snubbing us because of our name. We should look for another conference other than the Summit especially in 2012.

[Fetch]

your a expert a hole

[82SiouxGuy]

I really wish that we wouldn't even be doing this conference !@#$, your going from division 2 to division 1 AA... nothing special about AA really there's not... basically D2 schools trying to feel better about their programs. UND is a hockey school, that's what it should continue to be.

Division 2 is also a part of the NCAA. The nickname issue would be the same for UND whether they had stayed in D2 or moved up. And as someone else mentioned, UND is joining Division I. The only sport where they split the division is in football.

[dmksioux]

I really wish that we wouldn't even be doing this conference !@#$, your going from division 2 to division 1 AA... nothing special about AA really there's not... basically D2 schools trying to feel better about their programs. UND is a hockey school, that's what it should continue to be.

Another thing to consider with the move up to DI is that UND is now eligible to share in monies from the Frozen Four tournament if they win. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at one point, UND was not able to share in these monies due to it's DII classification and the tournament was a DI tournament. I remember hearing that UND was losing out on a big chunk of change because of it.

[BigGreyAnt41]

Another thing to consider with the move up to DI is that UND is now eligible to share in monies from the Frozen Four tournament if they win. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at one point, UND was not able to share in these monies due to it's DII classification and the tournament was a DI tournament. I remember hearing that UND was losing out on a big chunk of change because of it.

I also recall hearing that, but I'm not sure where the statement came from.

[iramurphy]

Another thing to consider with the move up to DI is that UND is now eligible to share in monies from the Frozen Four tournament if they win. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at one point, UND was not able to share in these monies due to it's DII classification and the tournament was a DI tournament. I remember hearing that UND was losing out on a big chunk of change because of it.

You are correct. As long as UND was D2 they did not get their share of Frozen Four revenues. We lost about $400,000 per year. the expense money UND received fro the NCAA didn't usually cover our costs.

The D2 issue vs D1 issue is irrelevant because we would still have the same sanctions regardless of which Division we are in. They are both NCAA. Would there still be an NCC? With SDSU, USD and the AC all gone maybe, probably not but we woudl give up the home playoff games which is a big deal for FB whether you are D1 or D2. D2 became so watered down and was losing scholarships. With 14,000 students and the history of UND athletics and academic excellence, we outgrew D2.

Dolphinswin: UND is a hockey school but not hockey only. Get the WBB or MBB or FB into the tournament and you will learn that UND will support any successful program and especially hockey, BB, or FB. Force the logo and name issue on UND and you will learn we are not a "hockey school" we are a University with a great hockey program with a great tradition. The great tradition of UND hockey does not need nor has it ever needed the name for its success and tradition. How many National titles have we won since the team moved into the Ralph??? How many did UND win when they played in the old quonset? How many did they win playing in the old Ralph that didn't have the name and logos everywhere? I want a successful hockey program a lot more than a name or logo that without NCAA approval hurts my hockey team. We will end up a bunch or rubes with a great logo and name and beautiful arena and no where to go.

[darell1976]

You are correct. As long as UND was D2 they did not get their share of Frozen Four revenues. We lost about $400,000 per year. the expense money UND received fro the NCAA didn't usually cover our costs.

The D2 issue vs D1 issue is irrelevant because we would still have the same sanctions regardless of which Division we are in. They are both NCAA. Would there still be an NCC? With SDSU, USD and the AC all gone maybe, probably not but we woudl give up the home playoff games which is a big deal for FB whether you are D1 or D2. D2 became so watered down and was losing scholarships. With 14,000 students and the history of UND athletics and academic excellence, we outgrew D2.

Dolphinswin: UND is a hockey school but not hockey only. Get the WBB or MBB or FB into the tournament and you will learn that UND will support any successful program and especially hockey, BB, or FB. Force the logo and name issue on UND and you will learn we are not a "hockey school" we are a University with a great hockey program with a great tradition. The great tradition of UND hockey does not need nor has it ever needed the name for its success and tradition. How many National titles have we won since the team moved into the Ralph??? How many did UND win when they played in the old quonset? How many did they win playing in the old Ralph that didn't have the name and logos everywhere? I want a successful hockey program a lot more than a name or logo that without NCAA approval hurts my hockey team. We will end up a bunch or rubes with a great logo and name and beautiful arena and no where to go.

Well said!!

[UNDColorado]

You are correct. As long as UND was D2 they did not get their share of Frozen Four revenues. We lost about $400,000 per year. the expense money UND received fro the NCAA didn't usually cover our costs.

The D2 issue vs D1 issue is irrelevant because we would still have the same sanctions regardless of which Division we are in. They are both NCAA. Would there still be an NCC? With SDSU, USD and the AC all gone maybe, probably not but we woudl give up the home playoff games which is a big deal for FB whether you are D1 or D2. D2 became so watered down and was losing scholarships. With 14,000 students and the history of UND athletics and academic excellence, we outgrew D2.

Dolphinswin: UND is a hockey school but not hockey only. Get the WBB or MBB or FB into the tournament and you will learn that UND will support any successful program and especially hockey, BB, or FB. Force the logo and name issue on UND and you will learn we are not a "hockey school" we are a University with a great hockey program with a great tradition. The great tradition of UND hockey does not need nor has it ever needed the name for its success and tradition. How many National titles have we won since the team moved into the Ralph??? How many did UND win when they played in the old quonset? How many did they win playing in the old Ralph that didn't have the name and logos everywhere? I want a successful hockey program a lot more than a name or logo that without NCAA approval hurts my hockey team. We will end up a bunch or rubes with a great logo and name and beautiful arena and no where to go.

+1

[petey23]

Douple first interjected himself into this debate back in January of 2009 when the legislature was toying with the idea of mandating a Sioux-Bison football game. NDSU's A.D. "MADE UP one morning that the Summit discouraged all member schools from scheduling UND. Douple was interviewed by Dan Hammer that afternoon and Douple categorically denied ever discussing UND's nickname with any administrators of any of his schools. The next day Kolpack had an article in the Forum in which Douple said he discouraged his schools from scheduling UND.

Here is a fun walk down memory lane.

Kelley had been on the job for a whopping six months at the time. If you truly believe that a rookie college president had enough influence to set policy at a conference that they weren't affiliated with, and get the commissioner of said conference and the A.D. of our biggest rival to work in conjuction through the media to build steam for an anti-nickname agenda, then I have some ocean-front property in North Dakota for sale that you'll likely be interested in........................

Fixed your post. Luckily for them Oral Roberts being a private school protected them from open records laws.

[dmksioux]

You are correct. As long as UND was D2 they did not get their share of Frozen Four revenues. We lost about $400,000 per year. the expense money UND received fro the NCAA didn't usually cover our costs.

The D2 issue vs D1 issue is irrelevant because we would still have the same sanctions regardless of which Division we are in. They are both NCAA. Would there still be an NCC? With SDSU, USD and the AC all gone maybe, probably not but we woudl give up the home playoff games which is a big deal for FB whether you are D1 or D2. D2 became so watered down and was losing scholarships. With 14,000 students and the history of UND athletics and academic excellence, we outgrew D2.

Thanks Ira, I remembering hearing it was a rather significant amount we were leaving on the table. I understand the DI, DII, DIII thing. They are all governed by the NCAA so sanctions will apply in any division unless we go NAIA. Unfortunately, I will not get to vote if there is an election as I am currently a Minnesota resident.

[mizzou/sioux]

In a way I hope we get kicked out of the Big Sky and get into the Summit instead.....after this fiasco is "finalized"

The way the Summit treated us (going after USD to prevent the latter from joining the Big Sky with us) it's very doubtful to me that the Summit would want us.

[zonadub]

You are correct. As long as UND was D2 they did not get their share of Frozen Four revenues. We lost about $400,000 per year. the expense money UND received fro the NCAA didn't usually cover our costs.

The D2 issue vs D1 issue is irrelevant because we would still have the same sanctions regardless of which Division we are in. They are both NCAA. Would there still be an NCC? With SDSU, USD and the AC all gone maybe, probably not but we woudl give up the home playoff games which is a big deal for FB whether you are D1 or D2. D2 became so watered down and was losing scholarships. With 14,000 students and the history of UND athletics and academic excellence, we outgrew D2.

Dolphinswin: UND is a hockey school but not hockey only. Get the WBB or MBB or FB into the tournament and you will learn that UND will support any successful program and especially hockey, BB, or FB. Force the logo and name issue on UND and you will learn we are not a "hockey school" we are a University with a great hockey program with a great tradition. The great tradition of UND hockey does not need nor has it ever needed the name for its success and tradition. How many National titles have we won since the team moved into the Ralph??? How many did UND win when they played in the old quonset? How many did they win playing in the old Ralph that didn't have the name and logos everywhere? I want a successful hockey program a lot more than a name or logo that without NCAA approval hurts my hockey team. We will end up a bunch or rubes with a great logo and name and beautiful arena and no where to go.

doggone it, ira... there you go makin' sense again. thanks