POLL: Should UND-NDSU Resume the Football Series?

[JohnboyND7]

Oh, your team is sooooooooo great. They could move to the Big Ten and go undefeated with an average 30+ point margin of victory.

While they have a respectable team they simply aren't half as great as you and most of your fanbase make them out to be. Get a clue!!!

Never ever said anything about moving to the Big Ten, but thanks for the vote of confidence! Not even FBS, I leave talk of FBS moves to IrishSiouxFan. They are probably about as good as the fanbase makes them out to be, a team that this year should compete for the conference title, and maybe more. Our program is looking up. I would probably gues most of the Bison fanbase is excited about where the team is going. Which is more than you guys can currently say (like others have mentioned, that can change awfully fast).

[dakota fairways]

...says the tool with 22 posts and a reputation of -25.

+1 rep'd you to offset the troll's neg

[The Sicatoka]

... the NCAA would go where the most money is.

Birds fly.

Fish swim.

Sun rises in the east.

Figured we needed some more obvious truisms.

[johnson]

The fact that NDSU had the audacity to still want to play UND while they were moving up to I-AA and UND was still in D2 shows how classless that program is and how desperate they were to beat the Sioux. They couldn't get the job done on a level playing field, so they stacked the deck in their favor and cried foul when UND didn't take the bait.

The analogy of what they did is this...

Say you get into a fitsfight with the same guy every day and get your a$$ handed to you each and every time (or at least 10 times out of 13). Then you go get a couple of buddies and challenge the guy to a 3 on 1 fight. Yeah, pretty lame.

I hated them when they used to beat the snot out of us in back in the '80s but at least I respected them at that time. They were a great team and they beat us repeatedly on a level playing field. But trying to stack the deck in your favor to get that edge back when the shoe is on the other foot is about the most dishonorable thing I can think of doing in that situation. I lost all respect for them after they moved up and expected us to continue playing them. That was a cowardly move IMHO.

Before 1960 UND had a major advantage over NDSU and yet they still played the game. UND fans love to point to the series record between the two schools but ignore the fact that UND was huge compared to NDSU before the 60's. 50,000+ had graduated from UND by 1960 only 9,000 had graduated from NDSU. Now looking at those figures take a minute and think about the funding differences between the two schools back then. Was it cowardly for UND to be playing NDSU before the 60's and the un-level playing field that UND had during that time? The fact remains that NDSU still played those games and wanted to continue on with the series when they left. Your administration wanted to drive NDSU athletics into the ground for leaving the NCC and decided to make life a little harder for NDSU by not scheduling them in any sport. If the reason truely was that they didn't want to play against a team that posed an un-level playing field for them then why did they schedule UNI in 2006 and why are they scheduling up now?

[JohnboyND7]

Before 1960 UND had a major advantage over NDSU and yet they still played the game. UND fans love to point to the series record between the two schools but ignore the fact that UND was huge compared to NDSU before the 60's. 50,000+ had graduated from UND by 1960 only 9,000 had graduated from NDSU. Now looking at those figures take a minute and think about the funding differences between the two schools back then. Was it cowardly for UND to be playing NDSU before the 60's and the un-level playing field that UND had during that time? The fact remains that NDSU still played those games and wanted to continue on with the series when they left. Your administration wanted to drive NDSU athletics into the ground for leaving the NCC and decided to make life a little harder for NDSU by not scheduling them in any sport. If the reason truely was that they didn't want to play against a team that posed an un-level playing field for them then why did they schedule UNI in 2006 and why are they scheduling up now?

Can't wait to see how DaveK spins this into something completely off base..

[The Sicatoka]

Here's what's interesting:

NDSU fans are debating with UND about who's better and how close the football programs are. Clearly, because NDSU fans are here and discussing it, it must be close enough to warrant the conversation.

Could the conversation continue to other areas? Volleyball? The vaunted NDSU program just lost to UND. MBB or WBB? Sure NDSU holds the recent win in MBB, but none of these programs has much to crow about (spotlighted by the departure of the Woodside class from NDSU).

But then the conversation turns ugly when UND fans point out their hockey program that has alumni with gold and silver medals, mens and womens, from the Vancouver Olympics and a recent captain of a Stanley Cup winner. NDSU has no answer to, nothing to match to, UND's premier program.

So the conversation has to return to football.

But by NDSU fans returning to football they are admitting the programs are close enough to have the conversation.

[JohnboyND7]

Here's what's interesting:

NDSU fans are debating with UND about who's better and how close the football programs are. Clearly, because NDSU fans are here and discussing it, it must be close enough to warrant the conversation.

Could the conversation continue to other areas? Volleyball? The vaunted NDSU program just lost to UND. MBB or WBB? Sure NDSU holds the recent win in MBB, but none of these programs has much to crow about (spotlighted by the departure of the Woodside class from NDSU).

But then the conversation turns ugly when UND fans point out their hockey program that has alumni with gold and silver medals, mens and womens, from the Vancouver Olympics and a recent captain of a Stanley Cup winner. NDSU has no answer to, nothing to match to, UND's premier program.

So the conversation has to return to football.

But by NDSU fans returning to football they are admitting the programs are close enough to have the conversation.

8>1. I like having an 8 championship lead on rivals in sports. 7 makes it close enough to have a conversation. You guys know who else has alumni with gold and silver medals? Pretty well any D1 hockey program has probably landed some folks on the hockey team. Also remember, Stanley Cup is the least relevant championship in sports. 2.6, 3.2, 3.3 Nielsen ratings in the past few years? You are trying to brag up all these shoutouts from these very talented hockey players. I will not despute they are talented, but more Canadians care about hockey than Americans. We have 11 times the population of Canada. Keep that in mind next time.

Have you ever heard NDSU fans bring up the wrestling championships? From what I heard, NDSU pretty much drove UND to get rid of it (source was a gung ho bison fan, more than likely mistaken.) because of NDSU's complete domination over UND. But no, NDSU doesn't bring up wrestling championships because honestly, no one cares about it. However, funny thing about wrestling, it gets on ESPN as much as college hockey does. For about 2 days a year, college hockey and college wrestling are relevant on the National scene.

[johnson]

Here's what's interesting:

NDSU fans are debating with UND about who's better and how close the football programs are. Clearly, because NDSU fans are here and discussing it, it must be close enough to warrant the conversation.

Could the conversation continue to other areas? Volleyball? The vaunted NDSU program just lost to UND. MBB or WBB? Sure NDSU holds the recent win in MBB, but none of these programs has much to crow about (spotlighted by the departure of the Woodside class from NDSU).

But then the conversation turns ugly when UND fans point out their hockey program that has alumni with gold and silver medals, mens and womens, from the Vancouver Olympics and a recent captain of a Stanley Cup winner. NDSU has no answer to, nothing to match to, UND's premier program.

So the conversation has to return to football.

But by NDSU fans returning to football they are admitting the programs are close enough to have the conversation.

The conversation returns to football because that is the sport that most people are interested in when it comes to the NDSU-UND rivalry (title of this thread for example). If you wish to discuss another sport I am up for that conversation as well.

[The Sicatoka]

The conversation returns to football because that is the sport that most people are interested in when it comes to the NDSU-UND rivalry ...

... because NDSU has not hopped into a hockey rivalry. Imagine two to four games per year between those two.

[The Sicatoka]

However, funny thing about wrestling, it gets on ESPN as much as college hockey does.

ESPN is maybe, maybe, 20% of the sports programming on my television these days. Not a great benchmark.

For about 2 days a year, college hockey and college wrestling and FCS football are relevant on the National scene.

You missed one. Fixed it for you.

[dakota fairways]

... UND was huge compared to NDSU before the 60's. 50,000+ had graduated from UND by 1960 only 9,000 had graduated from NDSU. ...

Was this because the students at NDSU in those days were mostly headed back to the farm and left NDAC when they had garnered the education they desired, whether they had enough credits to graduate or not? I have friends who went to NDSU to take the classes they needed to run their farms better, but didn't feel it was necessary to get the sheepskin to run a good agricultural operation. This is not intended as smack. Merely an observation of the focus of the students in the 60s and earlier. I think the enrollments were similar, and yes, UND did indeed have more students, just not by that large of a margin.

[Johnny Five]

Whatever. We have much bigger fish to fry than that insignificant school that ran away from the NCC with their tails between their legs after the 2003 season. If we play them we play them, if we don't we don't. They're really just a bunch of nobodies.

As ignorant a statement as there is. I don't care who says it about which side.

[UNDColorado]

Darrell......if it were to happen in the playoffs....I cannot even begin to imagine how hot of a ticket that would be. Surely a ticket that could be scalped for high dollars! It would be an incredible story......the stuff that is in the movies.

I would fly in from Colorado in a second for that ticket!

[petey23]

8>1. I like having an 8 championship lead on rivals in sports. 7 makes it close enough to have a conversation. You guys know who else has alumni with gold and silver medals? Pretty well any D1 hockey program has probably landed some folks on the hockey team. Also remember, Stanley Cup is the least relevant championship in sports. 2.6, 3.2, 3.3 Nielsen ratings in the past few years? You are trying to brag up all these shoutouts from these very talented hockey players. I will not despute they are talented, but more Canadians care about hockey than Americans. We have 11 times the population of Canada. Keep that in mind next time.

Have you ever heard NDSU fans bring up the wrestling championships? From what I heard, NDSU pretty much drove UND to get rid of it (source was a gung ho bison fan, more than likely mistaken.) because of NDSU's complete domination over UND. But no, NDSU doesn't bring up wrestling championships because honestly, no one cares about it. However, funny thing about wrestling, it gets on ESPN as much as college hockey does. For about 2 days a year, college hockey and college wrestling are relevant on the National scene.

So many things incorrect in this post. I'll start here and decide later if you are even credible enough to bother with the rest.

The Bison football team, which plays their home games at the Fargodome, was a dominant force in Division II. They won national titles on five separate occasions (1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1990) before moving to Division I-AA (now FCS)in 2004

[johnson]

Was this because the students at NDSU in those days were mostly headed back to the farm and left NDAC when they had garnered the education they desired, whether they had enough credits to graduate or not? I have friends who went to NDSU to take the classes they needed to run their farms better, but didn't feel it was necessary to get the sheepskin to run a good agricultural operation. This is not intended as smack. Merely an observation of the focus of the students in the 60s and earlier. I think the enrollments were similar, and yes, UND did indeed have more students, just not by that large of a margin.

I haven't read much about the enrollments between the two schools. I do know that NDAC also had high school students that counted towards overall enrollment. I have a publication that states NDAC's total enrollment in 1893 was 62 and 41 of those were HS students. 1911 saw 149 college students and 130 HS students. It wasn't until 1938 that NDAC High School was discontinued. Enrollments didn't rebound until after WWII and by that time UND had about double the enrollment of NDSU's. Funding wasn't even close prior to 1960 and in fact the state legislature nearly shut NDAC down in the late 30's by stripping away large portions of their funding and firing the administration. After that stunt the people of ND voted to create the SBoHE.

[JohnboyND7]

So many things incorrect in this post. I'll start here and decide later if you are even credible enough to bother with the rest.

The Bison football team, which plays their home games at the Fargodome, was a dominant force in Division II. They won national titles on five separate occasions (1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1990) before moving to Division I-AA (now FCS)in 2004

8 national titles, 5 during the playoff format, 3 (1 was disputed, the two polls disagreed, AP said NDSU) before when it was voted on after the Division 2 bowl games. Sorry pete. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_II_National_Football_Championship

As to the gentleman who said FCS is on the same level as college hockey, I'd say that sounds about right.'

[JohnboyND7]

I haven't read much about the enrollments between the two schools. I do know that NDAC also had high school students that counted towards overall enrollment. I have a publication that states NDAC's total enrollment in 1893 was 62 and 41 of those were HS students. 1911 saw 149 college students and 130 HS students. It wasn't until 1938 that NDAC High School was discontinued. Enrollments didn't rebound until after WWII and by that time UND had about double the enrollment of NDSU's. Funding wasn't even close prior to 1960 and in fact the state legislature nearly shut NDAC down in the late 30's by stripping away large portions of their funding and firing the administration. After that stunt the people of ND voted to create the SBoHE.

When my uncle was in school he said UND was over 10,000 and NDSU was around 8,000. Thats in the 80's.

[petey23]

8 national titles, 5 during the playoff format, 3 (1 was disputed, the two polls disagreed, AP said NDSU) before when it was voted on after the Division 2 bowl games. Sorry pete. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_II_National_Football_Championship

As to the gentleman who said FCS is on the same level as college hockey, I'd say that sounds about right.'

I'll give you 5 national titles, 2 mythical national titles, and 1 disputed mythical national title if it makes you feel better.

As to FCS being on par with College Hockey....that is so far from reality it doesn't deserve any further discussion.

[dakotadan]

I'll give you 5 national titles, 2 mythical national titles, and 1 disputed mythical national title if it makes you feel better.

As to FCS being on par with College Hockey....that is so far from reality it doesn't deserve any further discussion.

Don't forget their mythical national championships their fans have declared since moving to DI FCS.

[dakotadan]

I haven't read much about the enrollments between the two schools. I do know that NDAC also had high school students that counted towards overall enrollment. I have a publication that states NDAC's total enrollment in 1893 was 62 and 41 of those were HS students. 1911 saw 149 college students and 130 HS students. It wasn't until 1938 that NDAC High School was discontinued. Enrollments didn't rebound until after WWII and by that time UND had about double the enrollment of NDSU's. Funding wasn't even close prior to 1960 and in fact the state legislature nearly shut NDAC down in the late 30's by stripping away large portions of their funding and firing the administration. After that stunt the people of ND voted to create the SBoHE.

If only we could go back in time and make sure that happened. It would have been nice.

And I have never figured out why NDSU fans have this idea that UND and NDSU need to be funded exactly equal.

[senor_sieve]

I'll give you 5 national titles, 2 mythical national titles, and 1 disputed mythical national title if it makes you feel better.

As to FCS being on par with College Hockey....that is so far from reality it doesn't deserve any further discussion.

you're right, they're not on par, because every team in FCS is a member of Division I athletics, while the defending "Division I" hockey champion is a Division II school, and the current premier conference in college hockey has more Division II and Division III schools than Division I schools.

[FSSD]

Before 1960 UND had a major advantage over NDSU and yet they still played the game. UND fans love to point to the series record between the two schools but ignore the fact that UND was huge compared to NDSU before the 60's. 50,000+ had graduated from UND by 1960 only 9,000 had graduated from NDSU. Now looking at those figures take a minute and think about the funding differences between the two schools back then. Was it cowardly for UND to be playing NDSU before the 60's and the un-level playing field that UND had during that time? The fact remains that NDSU still played those games and wanted to continue on with the series when they left. Your administration wanted to drive NDSU athletics into the ground for leaving the NCC and decided to make life a little harder for NDSU by not scheduling them in any sport. If the reason truely was that they didn't want to play against a team that posed an un-level playing field for them then why did they schedule UNI in 2006 and why are they scheduling up now?

Did they play in the same college division? If yes, then they should play.

[FSSD]

I haven't read much about the enrollments between the two schools. I do know that NDAC also had high school students that counted towards overall enrollment. I have a publication that states NDAC's total enrollment in 1893 was 62 and 41 of those were HS students. 1911 saw 149 college students and 130 HS students. It wasn't until 1938 that NDAC High School was discontinued. Enrollments didn't rebound until after WWII and by that time UND had about double the enrollment of NDSU's. Funding wasn't even close prior to 1960 and in fact the state legislature nearly shut NDAC down in the late 30's by stripping away large portions of their funding and firing the administration. After that stunt the people of ND voted to create the SBoHE.

During the Great Depression is was proposed that the two schools consolidate due to extremely low tax revenue. Both schools were impacted. This is not the first time that higher education was impacted by low tax revenue. In the early 1900's UND was kept open by bonds sold to local merchants and GF residents due to state funding cuts. It looks like the NDBHE was formed in 1938 and prior to it's formation the State of North Dakota built a new field house in 1930 and enlarged and improved Dacotah Field using WPA funds in 1938 for NDSU. UND requests for new or updated facilities would not be granted until the 1950's.

[Cratter]

Here's what's interesting:

But by NDSU fans returning to football they are admitting the programs are close enough to have the conversation.

What really chaps NDSU's fans asses is that they are second class to us (UND fans).

We care more about the Gophers (our number one rival in our number one sport) than NDSU.

They care more about us than we do them. It chaps their asses everytime! Hence the reason they get an inferior complex.

[petey23]

you're right, they're not on par, because every team in FCS is a member of Division I athletics, while the defending "Division I" hockey champion is a Division II school, and the current premier conference in college hockey has more Division II and Division III schools than Division I schools.

Talking about the quality of play....I hope you are just trolling and are not really this freakin stupid.