76 replies to this topic

[watchmaker49]

SiouxScore, on 17 April 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

I think you are overestimating how many kids would want to do this. There aren't a lot of Minnesota kids who are going to give up their high school hockey career and the chance to play in the State hockey tournament. If this was a team in the offseason then yeah sure, but during the high school season you will get very few talented Minnesota kids whether they are from the area or not, in fact you probably would get more kids from outside the area.

As I said before if they come from outside the area either a parent has to move with them ot they would need a legal guardian to attend school here.  I think the plan is to bring kids from outside the area ala Shattuck and make a allstar team to compete in Canada.  I would not be surprised to Canadians come down even.

[watchmaker49]

GFG, on 17 April 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

I disagree. I think a lot of kids from northern MN would leave their high schools to do this because they don't get the publicity they need at smaller schools most of the time unless they do make the state tournament or have an absolutely astonishing year

Only time will tell.  Those kids you mention would get their exposure in juniors anyhow.  The USHL coaches will find them without any publicity.  Did you know that less than 1% of Minnesota high school hockey players ever play D1. The parents that would shell out this kind of money that it would take to play here would be better to use that money as a college fund. It would be cheaper than trying to buy bragging rights that your kid got a D1 scholarship.

[SiouxScore]

GFG, on 17 April 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

I disagree. I think a lot of kids from northern MN would leave their high schools to do this because they don't get the publicity they need at smaller schools most of the time unless they do make the state tournament or have an absolutely astonishing year

I think your way off, northern Minnesota hockey gets way more exposure than the hockey down south around the Shattuck area, but yet many players stay with their high school team in that area instead of going to Shattuck, in the end kids that are good get found no matter where they play.

[SiouxScore]

watchmaker49, on 17 April 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

As I said before if they come from outside the area either a parent has to move with them ot they would need a legal guardian to attend school here.  I think the plan is to bring kids from outside the area ala Shattuck and make a allstar team to compete in Canada.  I would not be surprised to Canadians come down even.

I agree if this team is gonna work the kids are gonna be coming from outside the area which I believe is way more likely anyway, I think they will have to try to operate the way Shattuck does.

[Yote 53]

<sub>I can see where many of you are thinking this AAA Midget team would be good for UND Hockey and recruiting.  As a parent of a kid playing association hockey (Sioux City, IA) and coaching in the association the thought of AAA hockey in the Upper Midwest makes me cringe.  I watch shows like "Making of a Royal" on the NHL Network and it makes me sick.  Parents shelling out $15,000 a year, jetting all over the country, and having to send their kids off to live with another family is no way to grow the sport.  I hear of the stories going on down in Missouri (AAA hockey territory) since we go down to the KC area for tournaments, the next weekend we go up to Minnesota for a tournament and the hockey is much better and the tournaments are run much better.

Truth is Minnesota, Wisconsin, N & S Dakota, and Iowa have it right with association based hockey.  Keep the costs down, grow the #'s in the sport, and develop the kids.  More kids playing means more chances to get talented kids which in turn means more talent available for UND to recruit.  Going the AAA route will keep parents from ever enrolling and getting their kids playing hockey to begin with if they know what path they are starting down.  We need to make hockey more like area basketball and football programs, not go in the opposite direction where only those with well heeled parents can play.

Between the number of games in association hockey throughout the winter season and with spring and summer hockey becoming so popular players have plenty of ice time and opportunity to develop.

Besides, I don't see why you guys are worried.  UND is a big dog in college hockey, they are going to get their share of top end talent with or without this AAA Midget team.</sub>

[Fetch]

& the Ralph sells out now ...why ?

[UNDBIZ]

Fetch, on 17 April 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

& the Ralph sells out now ...why ?

Because people love to watch UND (their hometown school and/or alma mater) play.

[Ray77]

Yote 53, on 17 April 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

<sub>I can see where many of you are thinking this AAA Midget team would be good for UND Hockey and recruiting.  As a parent of a kid playing association hockey (Sioux City, IA) and coaching in the association the thought of AAA hockey in the Upper Midwest makes me cringe.  I watch shows like "Making of a Royal" on the NHL Network and it makes me sick.  Parents shelling out $15,000 a year, jetting all over the country, and having to send their kids off to live with another family is no way to grow the sport.  I hear of the stories going on down in Missouri (AAA hockey territory) since we go down to the KC area for tournaments, the next weekend we go up to Minnesota for a tournament and the hockey is much better and the tournaments are run much better.

Truth is Minnesota, Wisconsin, N & S Dakota, and Iowa have it right with association based hockey.  Keep the costs down, grow the #'s in the sport, and develop the kids.  More kids playing means more chances to get talented kids which in turn means more talent available for UND to recruit.  Going the AAA route will keep parents from ever enrolling and getting their kids playing hockey to begin with if they know what path they are starting down.  We need to make hockey more like area basketball and football programs, not go in the opposite direction where only those with well heeled parents can play.

Between the number of games in association hockey throughout the winter season and with spring and summer hockey becoming so popular players have plenty of ice time and opportunity to develop.

Besides, I don't see why you guys are worried.  UND is a big dog in college hockey, they are going to get their share of top end talent with or without this AAA Midget team.</sub>

Nice post.  The more I read this thread and comments on this subject the more I'm seeing that most people think this is a great idea and will benefit Sioux hockey, etc.  I think everyone should take a step back and think about this, because this will hurt HS hockey in North Dakota.

The Sioux don't need this program to survive - they'll recruit top players from all over with or without this program.  To say the Sioux need a midget hockey team located in Grand Forks to recruit players is laughable.

Karl's response may have been well written, but let's not forget that he works for the Hockey Academy and is there to make money for the Hockey Academy.  Just because he's an ex-Fighting Sioux goaltender (and one of the best to come through the program) doesn't mean we all have to swallow what he's selling here.  I hope that people can take a step back and think about this and not just agree with it because Karl Goehring, ex-Sioux goalie, and the Ralph's Hockey Academy says it's a good thing.

[ndsioux2000]

Ray77, on 17 April 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Nice post.  The more I read this thread and comments on this subject the more I'm seeing that most people think this is a great idea and will benefit Sioux hockey, etc.  I think everyone should take a step back and think about this, because this will hurt HS hockey in North Dakota.

The Sioux don't need this program to survive - they'll recruit top players from all over with or without this program.  To say the Sioux need a midget hockey team located in Grand Forks to recruit players is laughable.

Karl's response may have been well written, but let's not forget that he works for the Hockey Academy and is there to make money for the Hockey Academy.  Just because he's an ex-Fighting Sioux goaltender (and one of the best to come through the program) doesn't mean we all have to swallow what he's selling here.  I hope that people can take a step back and think about this and not just agree with it because Karl Goehring, ex-Sioux goalie, and the Ralph's Hockey Academy says it's a good thing.

Good post.  Good athletes will get noticed if they are good enough to be a DI athlete.  Most students are finding ways to improve through elite leagues (as mentioned in the Let's Play Hockey article), camps, summer teams, etc.  The avenues are there to push your limits if you choose to and have the passion to.  I question how much better playing on one of these teams makes you if you take the same athlete and they take these alternative avenues to improve.  Also, what happens to the student-athlete who wants to play football in the fall and baseball in the spring.  This proposed REA team will surely start earlier and end later than the current high school hockey season.  Who's to say playing football won't help a player be better at baseball or hockey.  Being in competitive situations in football do help the hockey player and vice-versa.  Specialization isn't always the answer.  Finally, the community-based model should produce more hockey players that play at higher level.  With an emphasis on development through good coaching, more players should simply be produced.  You can't tell me the state of Minnesota isn't a model that we should be following.  Even if only 1-2% are making it to DI, look at the opportunities created for all of these kids.  Yet, some still make it to DI.  If best practices are followed, maybe 3% would make it.  That would blow the proposed system out of the water.

I question the type of program the REA/Hockey Academy wants to produce.  I don't hear about many kids leaving Grand Forks to play baseball, softball, golf, swimming, track, etc while forsaking other athletic/musical activities.  I could just imagine if someone said the were going to send their kid to Oklahoma to play fastpitch softball and spend $$$ to do it.  Those people would be laughed out of town.

Allow kids to be kids.

[yzerman19]

Most midget hockey came into existence because of poorly run or non-existent community based hockey.  We are fortunate in GF and in Roseau, Warroad, heck most of ND and MN, to have strong community based hockey.  The BIGGEST driver in the old days was simply ice...we always had outdoor ice from Dec-Feb in the upper midwest.  That is not the case in the rest of the country (as a generalization).

The bigger question is about competition- you only get better by playing the best. Is a midget AAA schedule better in terms of competition than a good high school section?  Maybe...maybe not...depends on where you live.  Did playing at Shattuck make Parise or Toews better or were Parise in Toews already better and just played at Shattuck.  I don't know.  My guess is they would've been great if they played in India.

[watchmaker49]

Here is another thought on midgets.  I wonder if some of the kids that would chose to play midgets are really missed by their old team?  Better way to put it would be are those parents missed?

[GFG]

Very good posts here and I agree with all of it.

[sioux rube]

miles1416, on 16 April 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Andrew Yatskis

And his brother Tygh,who was an all-state goalie this past season, may follow in his footsteps.

[morley]

I think most people are missing the point here. CBH and AAA are not competing for the majority of the same players. Yes, there will be some local high school talent that would possibly go the midget route, but it isn't going to completely remove local teams. AAA isn't going to be for everybody, either due to money, personal interests, or whatever.

Academics are a whole different thing with AAA programs. Some offer tutors/teachers and online courses as an option. Others like Shattucks is a school in itself. What the hockey academy's plans are I don't know, but I'm sure it is something they have taken into consideration.

I do feel this would be a good recruiting tool for UND as well. I'm not just talking about the kids that would come to play for this team, but also the other kids that come into REA for games. Not only do they get to see REA and what it has to offer, it gives the coaches a chance to scout while spending some nights at home and not traveling everywhere.

[Wilbur]

yzerman19, on 17 April 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Most midget hockey came into existence because of poorly run or non-existent community based hockey.  We are fortunate in GF and in Roseau, Warroad, heck most of ND and MN, to have strong community based hockey.  The BIGGEST driver in the old days was simply ice...we always had outdoor ice from Dec-Feb in the upper midwest.  That is not the case in the rest of the country (as a generalization).

The bigger question is about competition- you only get better by playing the best. Is a midget AAA schedule better in terms of competition than a good high school section?  Maybe...maybe not...depends on where you live.  Did playing at Shattuck make Parise or Toews better or were Parise in Toews already better and just played at Shattuck.  I don't know.  My guess is they would've been great if they played in India.

Great points.  To answer the bolded points (of course IMHO), depends on who the midget team is playing.  I think a North Dakota midget AAA team could get a lot of great teams on their schedule like Shattuck, or the Notre Dame Hounds, etc.  Did playing at Shattuck make Parise or Toews better?  Hell, they could have played in Fiji and been amazing with all the God given talent and drive they have.

[Johnny Five]

Any clue how many kids who have played in the big midget tourney in GF in the past have committed to UND?

[scpa0305]

choyt3, on 15 April 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Karl Goehring's response to that column: http://www.letsplayh...ting-russo.html

I really like Karl's response.