The Sicatoka Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I like your thinking, but I fear that it is all too likely that the answers will quickly be spread on the internet, resulting in this approach becoming completely undermined as well. In person, oral exam; Chewey and I as proctors. (jdub27 is my alternate; siouxphan27 is Chewey's alternate.) Russ McDonald will not be part of this group. 1 Quote
DamStrait Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Here you have people explaining why they think choosing "no nickname" is a terrible, short-sighted decision and could actually tell you why UND is where they are. Seems to be more logical than people who don't appear listed on the Champions Club list threatening to rethink their season tickets or the guy who said he'll go back to rooting for Minnesota or just bring back Fighting Sioux, nothing will happen, etc, etc, etc. Typing Fighting Sioux Forever isn't going to bring back the old nickname and logo, but that message apparently hasn't been spread on the internet yet. The unfortunate part of this is the large majority of people now wanting to move on were those fighting to keep Fighting Sioux when there was still a chance but are now labeled as not caring about history, tradition, etc. and it couldn't be further from the truth. People have a hard time differentiating between that and realizing that most of those people looking out for what is best for the University of North Dakota, its athletic department and student athletes. You may not be aware, but you have a real knack for coming off as obnoxiously self-righteous. Just because someone may hold an opinion that differs from yours does not mean they care any less for UND or its best interests. 3 3 Quote
Popular Post jdub27 Posted June 19, 2015 Popular Post Posted June 19, 2015 You may not be aware, but you have a real knack for coming off as obnoxiously self-righteous. Just because someone may hold an opinion that differs from yours does not mean they care any less for UND or its best interests. This isn't direct at you specifically, but there is no possible way you could convince me and many others that that anyone who is still advocating for the Fighting Sioux nickname has UND's best interests in mind. I have no issues with people having different opinions but the crap that is out there on social media is mainly uneducated garbage. I take issue with people that claim they will quit donating money to UND (when most don't do so in the first place) or people that are going switch their loyalty because of nickname. I'd love to hear the explanation of how those people have UND's best interest in mind. 8 2 Quote
Shawn-O Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 This isn't direct at you specifically, but there is no possible way you could convince me and many others that that anyone who is still advocating for the Fighting Sioux nickname has UND's best interests in mind. I have no issues with people having different opinions but the crap that is out there on social media is mainly uneducated garbage. I take issue with people that claim they will quit donating money to UND (when most don't do so in the first place) or people that are going switch their loyalty because of nickname. I'd love to hear the explanation of how those people have UND's best interest in mind. To be clear, not donating to the athletic department, versus not donating to UND...are very different things. Quote
jdub27 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 To be clear, not donating to the athletic department, versus not donating to UND...are very different things. No argument. Was just paraphrasing as pretty much all of the comments I've seen have just stated they'd quit giving to UND. It is possible that some of those making the comments/threats currently donate to other parts of the University and not the Champions Club and they would drop those donations, but I'd think that generally speaking, the nickname wouldn't be as big of an issue to someone in who falls into that category. Quote
DamStrait Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 This isn't direct at you specifically, but there is no possible way you could convince me and many others that that anyone who is still advocating for the Fighting Sioux nickname has UND's best interests in mind. I have no issues with people having different opinions but the crap that is out there on social media is mainly uneducated garbage. I take issue with people that claim they will quit donating money to UND (when most don't do so in the first place) or people that are going switch their loyalty because of nickname. I'd love to hear the explanation of how those people have UND's best interest in mind. You seem to be equating everyone that is advocating continuing without a nickname as advocating the Fighting Sioux nickname, and therefore are all claiming to quit donating or switch their loyalty - this is not the case. I believe because you don't agree with continuing without a nickname, you have tended to lump all who hold that opinion into least flattering segment of that entire group. Those that are advocating returning to the Fighting Sioux nickname are at best uninformed. 1 Quote
jdub27 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 You seem to be equating everyone that is advocating continuing without a nickname as advocating the Fighting Sioux nickname, and therefore are all claiming to quit donating or switch their loyalty - this is not the case. I believe because you don't agree with continuing without a nickname, you have tended to lump all who hold that opinion into least flattering segment of that entire group. Those that are advocating returning to the Fighting Sioux nickname are at best uninformed. I posted about some fairly common examples I've seen on social media of people's claims, I didn't say that everyone who is in favor of no nickname was going to quit donating or quit cheering for UND, that subset of people don't have UND's best interest in mind regardless. There are people that have other reasons for wanting "no nickname" but from conversations I've had and reading social media, the large majority of those I've seen advocating for "no nickname" are doing it so they can keep the Fighting Sioux nickname as the de facto nickname. Its not like its a big secret or something only I'm thinking: -"Saying we're going to be North Dakota to me means saying we're going to stay the Fighting Sioux" - Nickname committee, Chelsea Moser -Majority of public wanted North Dakota as nickname but many are just mad about Sioux logo retirement. - Nickname committee member Carla Christofferson -“I like North Dakota because we're indefinitely the Sioux,” said another UND student Quote
90siouxfan Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I wonder if Hammer reads this and refers to y'all as a Circle of Kings? 8 guys with more time to type than the pope and know whats best for everything.. Ever wonder if these boards discourage UND fans? 1 Quote
The Sicatoka Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Roughriders is so terrible, so "dirty", the US Navy would never allow it to be put onto the ship's crest, the ship's patch, of a US Navy ship. Quote
Hayduke Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Roughriders is so terrible, so "dirty", the US Navy would never allow it to be put onto the ship's crest, the ship's patch, of a US Navy ship. So, the USS NORTH DAKOTA has an insignia that includes the words ROUGH AND RIDERS. They must not have gotten the memo from a minority of UND fans on this board that Roughriders has nothing to do with North Dakota. Quote
darell1976 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 So, the USS NORTH DAKOTA has an insignia that includes the words ROUGH AND RIDERS. They must not have gotten the memo from a minority of UND fans on this board that Roughriders has nothing to do with North Dakota. This^^^^^^ Quote
The Sicatoka Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Is this where I say, "The US Navy stole it from GFRRHS, and people will be confused"? 1 1 Quote
The Sicatoka Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 So, the USS NORTH DAKOTA has an insignia that includes the words ROUGH AND RIDERS. Learn about that ship's crest (and the meanings behind it) here. Quote
Chewey Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 -"Saying we're going to be North Dakota to me means saying we're going to stay the Fighting Sioux" - Nickname committee, Chelsea Moser -Majority of public wanted North Dakota as nickname but many are just mad about Sioux logo retirement. - Nickname committee member Carla Christofferson -“I like North Dakota because we're indefinitely the Sioux,” said another UND student I will cheer for North Dakota and continue to donate regardless of what nickname, if any, is chosen. To be clear, however, ALL of the nickname options (not including the no nickname) run the gamut from completely embarrassing to completely insipid to completely being "Team Xerox". What's especially galling is that the university/taxpayers/students paid in the multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars to come up with such a list of complete bombs. I want the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo to come back but that is not going to happen (at least for a very long time after extreme political correctness has been eradicated out of post-secondary education - and it looks like the economy and the student loan crisis will effect a healing adjustment in what is now a completely rotting edifice - see Bernie Sanders' campaign call for free college as evidence of this). There is a misperception being tendered by many that those who want to stay "North Dakota" simply want to buy time for the "Fighting Sioux" name to come back. That is not necessarily the case for most though I'm sure there are some who do want that. Remaining "North Dakota" is the best option because all of the other nicknames are complete duds. It is the best option because when you've had the best, nothing else will do. It is the best option because retaining it gives deference and respect to the rich tradition and history and generosity of the Sioux people who's name was ripped away by completely racist and heavy-handed tactics employed by the NCAA. This was one of the goals of Kelley and the committee, wasn't it? Their words need to mean something. Or, will their words just be the latest expedient example of how flimsy and empty the white man's word is? Note to Kelley: Posting a few flags in the Ralph and employing some empty rhetoric that makes one want to vomit will do nothing. This is the best option because it gives reverence to the storied history of UND's athletic franchise. It is the best option because it does not violate any terms of any surrender agreement and I've stated ad nauseam as to why that is. Now that both the marketing argument and the purported violation of the surrender agreement argument have been debunked (my opinion), we see the transitioning to the equally weak argument that other people will define us if we don't have a new nickname. Hasn't everyone on this board and in the media and in Twamley Hall been belaboring the point that the athletic teams and the school and the students are so great that they define themselves? What's with the obsession with labels? We have a label; it's "North Dakota". So scriveners in the media are going to start getting carpal tunnel syndrome from having to type "North Dakota" and will, to protect themselves and to sate their unquenchable, compulsive obsession with labels, start typing "Green and White", "Nodaks", "Green", "UND", etc.? If Minnesota fans want to "define" us as the "?s", if Wisconsin fans want to identify us as "the Green and White", if Denver fans want to identify us as the "Nodaks", who cares? Let people explore their creative muse however they wish. As to the 3 points you mentioned, who cares? Just because someone is mad about being ripped of the best nickname in sport does not mean that said sentiment is the only reason for wanting to stay just "North Dakota". Remaining "North Dakota" does not mean that things stay the "Fighting Sioux". The first two points are representative of of a knee-jerk, perfunctory, presumptive and infantile mind-set that should have no place either on the committee or in the debate itself. It is a mind-set that does not appreciate nuances or complexities and it is fed, sustained and self-soothed by venting its own concocted justifications. The drooling by a 10 month old on a teething ring or the random giggling by a 10 month old at the sound of a rattle would be just as compelling and would probably be more relevant. As to the third point, who cares? One's opinions and personal associations do not violate any surrender agreement. If the committee wants the process to have any relevance at all, it will look at the latest GF Herald poll put the scare tactics and petty, juvenile ramblings and empty arguments regarding labels aside and make "North Dakota" one of the final options. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 If Minnesota fans want to "define" us as the "?s", if Wisconsin fans want to identify us as "the Green and White", if Denver fans want to identify us as the "Nodaks", who cares? Let people explore their creative muse however they wish. In a word: No. Today's SF Argus-Leader explains precisely why. The GF Herald has shown it also. I don't want to be "Sundogs" as defined by someone else. I don't forever want to be the "Green and White" either. As I've said time and again, "Control what is yours to control." Pick a name or someone will pick something for you that is less than flattering. They'll fill in the void you left. The Argus-Leader made my case for me today. I have $20 right now that say unless UND picks a name, the SF A-L will refer to UND as "Sundogs". North Dakota -- The Roughrider State 1 Quote
scpa0305 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 In a word: No. Today's SF Argus-Leader explains precisely why. The GF Herald has shown it also. I don't want to be "Sundogs" as defined by someone else. I don't forever want to be the "Green and White" either. As I've said time and again, "Control what is yours to control." Pick a name or someone will pick something for you that is less than flattering. They'll fill in the void you left. The Argus-Leader made my case for me today. I have $20 right now that say unless UND picks a name, the SF A-L will refer to UND as "Sundogs". North Dakota -- The Roughrider State Wait a minute....I'm having deja vu Quote
BigGame Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Is this where I say, "The US Navy stole it from GFRRHS, and people will be confused"? I mostly just don't like roughriders because it isn't in any way original and I think we could do a lot better. As far as the History, I grew up only thinking of ND as the peace garden state or flickertail state and had never heard Roughrider State but I certainly didn't look into it. Can someone enlighten me as to how the Rough Riders have anything to do with ND? I know that Roosevelt commanded them but not in or near ND and from my understanding the soldiers in the Rough Riders all came from the southwest part of the US. So did we become the roughrider state just because Teddy Roosevelt spent a little time in ND? 1 Quote
UND1983 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I mostly just don't like roughriders because it isn't in any way original and I think we could do a lot better. As far as the History, I grew up only thinking of ND as the peace garden state or flickertail state and had never heard Roughrider State but I certainly didn't look into it. Can someone enlighten me as to how the Rough Riders have anything to do with ND? I know that Roosevelt commanded them but not in or near ND and from my understanding the soldiers in the Rough Riders all came from the southwest part of the US. So did we become the roughrider state just because Teddy Roosevelt spent a little time in ND? Why do they annoy the hell out of everyone with Lewis and Clark ads all summer? Cause they passed through ND? I didn't know the new name had to be someone/something that spent X amount of time in the state of ND (with X having a minimum). Better pick an animal then. The only other group that spent X amount of time in ND wants nothing to do with UND. Quote
SIOUXFAN97 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I mostly just don't like roughriders because it isn't in any way original and I think we could do a lot better. As far as the History, I grew up only thinking of ND as the peace garden state or flickertail state and had never heard Roughrider State but I certainly didn't look into it. Can someone enlighten me as to how the Rough Riders have anything to do with ND? I know that Roosevelt commanded them but not in or near ND and from my understanding the soldiers in the Rough Riders all came from the southwest part of the US. So did we become the roughrider state just because Teddy Roosevelt spent a little time in ND? and western illinois graduates are all marines??? they aren't??? what??? that is dumb Quote
tnt Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I mostly just don't like roughriders because it isn't in any way original and I think we could do a lot better. As far as the History, I grew up only thinking of ND as the peace garden state or flickertail state and had never heard Roughrider State but I certainly didn't look into it. Can someone enlighten me as to how the Rough Riders have anything to do with ND? I know that Roosevelt commanded them but not in or near ND and from my understanding the soldiers in the Rough Riders all came from the southwest part of the US. So did we become the roughrider state just because Teddy Roosevelt spent a little time in ND? I may be wrong, so if I am let me know, but aren't you the one who was pushing for Einherjar as a nickname? If so, the argument falls on deaf ears for so many reasons. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Let's make this easy: TR loved ND. TR called his followers "Rough Riders". We love ND too. We'll follow TR's lead (love and promotion of ND) and use the name he gave to his followers. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Someone better call the Trojans at USC and fill them in on this. They might want to change their name quickly so they do not get continually laughed at. Imagine when USC plays Oregon State ... Quote
scpa0305 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Let's make this easy: TR loved ND. TR called his followers "Rough Riders". We love ND too. We'll follow TR's lead (love of ND) and use the name he gave to his followers. You've said this far too much. 1 Quote
Siouxphan27 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I mostly just don't like roughriders because it isn't in any way original and I think we could do a lot better. As far as the History, I grew up only thinking of ND as the peace garden state or flickertail state and had never heard Roughrider State but I certainly didn't look into it. Can someone enlighten me as to how the Rough Riders have anything to do with ND? I know that Roosevelt commanded them but not in or near ND and from my understanding the soldiers in the Rough Riders all came from the southwest part of the US. So did we become the roughrider state just because Teddy Roosevelt spent a little time in ND? To answer your last question- in a word- yes. Read the Wikipedia entry concerning the Roughriders to get a summary. Medora and ND Tourism have done a fine job of promoting the Roughriders as a ND thing.... I look at it as a -if you say something enough times, eventually it becomes true- sort of deals. But it's clear a lot of people on siouxsports don't care about that. Which is fine, we all have opinions. For me personally the 4 strikes against Roughriders are 1. Fabricated ND history 2. Condom manufacturer 3. Local high school name 4. I just plain don't like the name. 3 1 Quote
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