Some Thoughts on UND's FB Program

[siouxfan512]

10 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

We can agree to disagree. You’re just repeating your same old argument, also, which I adamantly disagree with.
 

At the FCS level, you’re not going to have a lucrative funding model with a bunch of revenue. That’s reserved for FBS football with large stadiums. Bottom line, collegiate athletics requires major investment/funding to begin with, and is not typically a huge return on the investment, especially in ND. Large football and basketball programs certainly do produce a lot of revenue for the NCAA and their respective institutions, no question, but those programs aren’t in North Dakota. Hockey has a return because there was a huge investment in the form of a gift from the Engelstads. It would only be a surprise if an $100M gift *did not* produce some revenue. 

So, you'd rather cut your nose to spite your face. We can always disagree, but I don't understand how taking away from your source of income is a smart long-term plan. I suppose it depends how much fund diversions you are talking about, but the bottom line is you also have to support your cash cow. The cash cow doesn't produce, you can forget football and plenty of other sports.

Hockey has a return because of historic success and a regional interest in hockey. Are you trying to tell me there was no interest prior to the Engelstad investment? If football wants more funds, it should come from generating new interest with donations. We have plenty of wealthy alumni and it is hard to imagine we can put some sort of funding together.

Again, I would absolutely love to see football get some more help and funding ... but I don't hate hockey the way you do. There is room for more than one program on campus and done correctly maybe they can both generate revenue.

[Sioux94]

On 6/13/2023 at 8:42 PM, Sioux>Bison said:

So these 6 guys are holding back the program because they haven’t fully funded it to its full potential? Why haven’t they donated the money we need?

I have no idea about these guys or who they even are.  I was just trying to make the simple point that if you wait for the Alerus to consistently sell out before starting an NIL.....it may never happen.  And make the point that I'd think it would be better to start a small NIL now instead of waiting 5-8 years when you think you'll have a larger NIL.  I honestly don't know what the other schools are doing.....I just don't want to have to get behind the others when it comes to NIL and have to play catchup. 

[iramurphy]

18 hours ago, Irish said:

I hear what you are saying but in my opinion the main problem is that there is not a demand for excellence in Football and now apparently in Hockey due to a succession of weak AD's and indifferent Presidents.  We hope for excellence and try to achieve but programs are allowed to be mediocre to good but not great forever without significant changes.  We have won a total of two playoff games collectively in Football and Hockey since 2016.  This is far from where we need to be yet here we are doing the same things again this year.

 

 

So what are you going to do about it?  Your comments about “demanding “ excellence and weak AD’s and indifferent presidents would get you excused from the table quickly. 

A better approach would be to sit down with the decision makers and ask what they need and how we can help. We can gain better insight into the challenges by listening and offering to be part of the solution. Demanding what others do with their time, efforts and resources will leave us on the outside looking in and perpetually frustrated. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

On 6/14/2023 at 11:36 PM, siouxfan512 said:

So, you'd rather cut your nose to spite your face. We can always disagree, but I don't understand how taking away from your source of income is a smart long-term plan. I suppose it depends how much fund diversions you are talking about, but the bottom line is you also have to support your cash cow. The cash cow doesn't produce, you can forget football and plenty of other sports.

Hockey has a return because of historic success and a regional interest in hockey. Are you trying to tell me there was no interest prior to the Engelstad investment? If football wants more funds, it should come from generating new interest with donations. We have plenty of wealthy alumni and it is hard to imagine we can put some sort of funding together.

Again, I would absolutely love to see football get some more help and funding ... but I don't hate hockey the way you do. There is room for more than one program on campus and done correctly maybe they can both generate revenue.

The cash cow is the state of ND, not hockey. You think hockey runs the show? Not.
 

The issue is the politics and influences it has on Chaves and the administration in regards to their priorities.

[UND-FB-FAN]

On 6/14/2023 at 11:36 PM, siouxfan512 said:

There is room for more than one program on campus and done correctly maybe they can both generate revenue.

If “done correctly” is the key statement here. It hasn’t been figured out since Englestad’s $100M gift. Basically, since then, it’s been spite all other athletic programs for hockey.

[UND-FB-FAN]

On 6/15/2023 at 7:45 AM, iramurphy said:

A better approach would be to sit down with the decision makers and ask what they need and how we can help.

Honestly, you could review this forum and in just 10 minutes have a list of 10+ tangible solutions. The issue is not that there is a lack of ideas or concepts, but rather that the leaders at the University of North Dakota currently are lazy, or so it appears that way. They are not looking to work above and beyond, but rather keep UND at the status quo. Alternatively, there are hidden agendas a play, keeping UND football behind where they should be.

[iramurphy]

42 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Honestly, you could review this forum and in just 10 minutes have a list of 10+ tangible solutions. The issue is not that there is a lack of ideas or concepts, but rather that the leaders at the University of North Dakota currently are lazy, or so it appears that way. They are not looking to work above and beyond, but rather keep UND at the status quo. Alternatively, there are hidden agendas a play, keeping UND football behind where they should be.

I would strongly disagree that the key leaders at UND are lazy. I doubt many often get a work week of 50h or less  if ever (usually more).  Most are regularly meeting with potential donors, attending UND functions, making fall calls, sending emails, text messages etc.  

They have offered multiple opportunities at different giving levels to participate. If donations to athletics isn’t in your plans, there are opportunities to donate to UND in many other ways. I have met with a number of the AD’s, Presidents, and alumni and athletic staff over the years. None of them have been lazy. Years ago, I didn’t have the resources that one would think they would normally pursue. I could volunteer my time. 

Earl Strinden had me chauffeur alumni between UND and Whitey’s during alumni days. There were 4 circa 1965 Lincoln convertibles we used. It was a blast. Most of them were at their 50yr reunion. Lots of great stories.  After that, my wife and I were invited to many Alumni gatherings.  Many of those we figured we were the only couple with a net worth less than millions. At those gatherings I kept quiet and listened as those with millions discussed donations and UND projects. 

Over the many years, these folks and their predecessors have tried to match their needs with what they thought we would be interested in. Options for a few hundred dollars to 6 figures.  Options for locker room upgrades, to building projects, to scholarships, and more recently surprised me with an option for matching funds for a Civil Engineering Endowment in my Dads name. 
 

Through these UND contacts and the hard work of these folks you have the impression are “lazy” or another poster referred to as “indifferent” I have met and chatted with many of our Alumni worth hundreds of millions to over a billion. It is my experience that they are always interested in new ideas, what our young grads are doing and thinking and are less impressed with money but more with those who do and give what they can to help UND thrive and grow. They walk away and avoid those who (often with little or no experience) criticize and seem to think they should have some say in how those donors direct their resources. 
 
For those who feel they have something to offer but no one has found them, reach out to UND and tell them you want to be involved. Ask what they need and see how you can help.  If the only way you want to help is to tell a coach how to run a program or who should be hired or fired. Don’t bother, none of those trying to move programs forward have time for that nonsense.  
 

 

[UND-FB-FAN]

19 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

I would strongly disagree that the key leaders at UND are lazy. I doubt many often get a work week of 50h or less  if ever (usually more).  Most are regularly meeting with potential donors, attending UND functions, making fall calls, sending emails, text messages etc.  

They have offered multiple opportunities at different giving levels to participate. If donations to athletics isn’t in your plans, there are opportunities to donate to UND in many other ways. I have met with a number of the AD’s, Presidents, and alumni and athletic staff over the years. None of them have been lazy. Years ago, I didn’t have the resources that one would think they would normally pursue. I could volunteer my time. 

Earl Strinden had me chauffeur alumni between UND and Whitey’s during alumni days. There were 4 circa 1965 Lincoln convertibles we used. It was a blast. Most of them were at their 50yr reunion. Lots of great stories.  After that, my wife and I were invited to many Alumni gatherings.  Many of those we figured we were the only couple with a net worth less than millions. At those gatherings I kept quiet and listened as those with millions discussed donations and UND projects. 

Over the many years, these folks and their predecessors have tried to match their needs with what they thought we would be interested in. Options for a few hundred dollars to 6 figures.  Options for locker room upgrades, to building projects, to scholarships, and more recently surprised me with an option for matching funds for a Civil Engineering Endowment in my Dads name. 
 

Through these UND contacts and the hard work of these folks you have the impression are “lazy” or another poster referred to as “indifferent” I have met and chatted with many of our Alumni worth hundreds of millions to over a billion. It is my experience that they are always interested in new ideas, what our young grads are doing and thinking and are less impressed with money but more with those who do and give what they can to help UND thrive and grow. They walk away and avoid those who (often with little or no experience) criticize and seem to think they should have some say in how those donors direct their resources. 
 
For those who feel they have something to offer but no one has found them, reach out to UND and tell them you want to be involved. Ask what they need and see how you can help.  If the only way you want to help is to tell a coach how to run a program or who should be hired or fired. Don’t bother, none of those trying to move programs forward have time for that nonsense.  
 

 

Results matter. What you’re saying sounds good on the surface, but it just doesn’t correlate with reality. Relatively speaking, UND athletics staff is not out-working the competition, which is what matters. It’s not just quantity of hours, but quality. And there’s several potential donors that UND fails to connect with, possibly because they share your perspective that they should avoid certain “criticizers” and, ironically, they perhaps rush to judgment too quickly. Looking at what UND does is quickly skewed if you fail to recognize the competition and what other regional institutions are doing. 

[Mama Sue]

I trust Ira… I think his heart pumps green blood.

He has the voice of experience helping any way he can…what do I know about baseball? Well we have the state tournament here. Someone has to clean the bathrooms and I can help. Let the people who know baseball do what they know how to do.

When we made our presidential scholar visit right after the flood everything about auND and GF impressed me. Nothing has changed my mind since then.

[iramurphy]

8 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Results matter. What you’re saying sounds good on the surface, but it just doesn’t correlate with reality. Relatively speaking, UND athletics staff is not out-working the competition, which is what matters. It’s not just quantity of hours, but quality. And there’s several potential donors that UND fails to connect with, possibly because they share your perspective that they should avoid certain “criticizers” and, ironically, they perhaps rush to judgment too quickly. Looking at what UND does is quickly skewed if you fail to recognize the competition and what other regional institutions are doing. 

These folks don’t avoid others, they  have learned that the ones you defend usually have little, if any,  insight into the issues they complain and usually don’t know what they are talking about. Negative people who criticize constantly are counterproductive to success.  When they constantly complain and criticize, normal people don’t want to be around them and quit listening to them.  
On the rare  occasion when they may have relevant input to offer, no one is listening. Successful people avoid them because they tend to be “energy vampires “.  
 

Why don’t you connect the potential donors you know to the UND staff?  If you don’t wish to, I will do my best to help. That is a great way to contribute to our programs without writing the check yourself. 
 

Why do you think you know how hard the UND staff works?  Over the years, from what I’ve seen, virtually every one of them works very hard. They don’t always agree with nor act on my suggestions, but they take the time to listen. They are well aware of the competition and how they operate but for many reasons one size doesn’t fit all.
 

You’ve identified the problem: unsatisfactory results (multiple times I might add).  Let’s move on. Formulate a plan where you find your niche to be part of the solution.  Sell it to others, fine tune it with their input and let’s get to work. 
 

[Irish]

On 6/15/2023 at 7:45 AM, iramurphy said:

So what are you going to do about it?  Your comments about “demanding “ excellence and weak AD’s and indifferent presidents would get you excused from the table quickly. 

A better approach would be to sit down with the decision makers and ask what they need and how we can help. We can gain better insight into the challenges by listening and offering to be part of the solution. Demanding what others do with their time, efforts and resources will leave us on the outside looking in and perpetually frustrated. 

Gee - What do you think I should do about it - I am giving my max with Club membership and season tickets.  I have been a fan for many years and am in regular attendance.  I'm sure if I doubled my contribution I still would not get a seat at the table - let alone get a chance to express my views and then get "excused".  I certainly would have no input in decisions like extending a 6-5 Bubba before his contract is up and likely to get no insight or explanation.  As to gaining better insight into the challenges I am anxious to listen but the information from the Athletic Department is zip.  Other than our need for Phase Two I have no idea what our expectations and plans are for our programs - We are now at a point where since 2016 our combined playoff win total from Football and Hockey is 2 - and one of the schools we beat is  American International.  The fact is that almost all of us except those with connections or a big checkbook are outside looking in.  The demand for excellence needs to come from the Administration and Athletic Department.  And I stand by my comments about indifferent Presidents and weak AD's - the jury is still out on Chaves but things need to improve.  

[Mama Sue]

Just thinking through all of this and the big picture….is enrollment up, down, or steady at UND? Many colleges are seeing decreased enrollment and cutting programs (St. Cloud State made BIG cuts).  Just asking because I don’t know….

[UND-FB-FAN]

Results matter; and again, the truth hurts, especially on this forum, evidently. Ol’ fashioned complacency, and long time supporters oblivious to the underlying collapse from within. 

With all that said, I’m hopeful for a 180.

[UND-FB-FAN]

22 hours ago, iramurphy said:

These folks don’t avoid others, they  have learned that the ones you defend usually have little, if any,  insight into the issues they complain and usually don’t know what they are talking about. Negative people who criticize constantly are counterproductive to success.  When they constantly complain and criticize, normal people don’t want to be around them and quit listening to them.  
On the rare  occasion when they may have relevant input to offer, no one is listening. Successful people avoid them because they tend to be “energy vampires “.  
 

Why don’t you connect the potential donors you know to the UND staff?  If you don’t wish to, I will do my best to help. That is a great way to contribute to our programs without writing the check yourself. 
 

Why do you think you know how hard the UND staff works?  Over the years, from what I’ve seen, virtually every one of them works very hard. They don’t always agree with nor act on my suggestions, but they take the time to listen. They are well aware of the competition and how they operate but for many reasons one size doesn’t fit all.
 

You’ve identified the problem: unsatisfactory results (multiple times I might add).  Let’s move on. Formulate a plan where you find your niche to be part of the solution.  Sell it to others, fine tune it with their input and let’s get to work. 
 

I disagree, and you’re just not seeing it. Your blind followers on here don’t see it either, but they believe you, so try not lead them off a cliff.

What I am referencing? UND athletic department, Alumni Association, and Champions Club are all absolutely ignoring people. They are not doing their job, or at least they are subpar at it. And sure, I do agree that we all need to look in the mirror to fix it, but that shouldn’t be the case; the folks paid to get the job done should be doing it. Instead, we get the constant rhetoric on here that we should step up and fix it ourselves. 

[fightingsioux4life]

35 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I disagree, and you’re just not seeing it. Your blind followers on here don’t see it either, but they believe you, so try not lead them off a cliff.

What I am referencing? UND athletic department, Alumni Association, and Champions Club are all absolutely ignoring people. They are not doing their job, or at least they are subpar at it. And sure, I do agree that we all need to look in the mirror to fix it, but that shouldn’t be the case; the folks paid to get the job done should be doing it. Instead, we get the constant rhetoric on here that we should step up and fix it ourselves. 

Amen. You are one of few people on this forum that is willing to say truthful, but unpopular things. People need to stop drinking the Kelly Green and White Kool-Aid and take a hard look at the problems facing our beloved institution.

[iramurphy]

23 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I disagree, and you’re just not seeing it. Your blind followers on here don’t see it either, but they believe you, so try not lead them off a cliff.

What I am referencing? UND athletic department, Alumni Association, and Champions Club are all absolutely ignoring people. They are not doing their job, or at least they are subpar at it. And sure, I do agree that we all need to look in the mirror to fix it, but that shouldn’t be the case; the folks paid to get the job done should be doing it. Instead, we get the constant rhetoric on here that we should step up and fix it ourselves. 

Nobody here is following me anywhere. There is a difference between agreeing with someone and following them. None of this stuff has cliffs to fall off of. We are talking about college sports not life and death. 

I can only refer to my own experiences with the UND folks over the years and I haven’t found many at all who ignore people willing to work to better UND or help UND improve and move forward. They don’t always agree. They didn’t agree right away when I wanted to start a fund raising golf scramble. In the beginning I coordinated with the golf course, arranged food, my wife and accepted the applications, collected the money, paid the bills and gave UND a check.  Another UND couple helped with on course registration.  For over 20 yrs what was initially called the Siouxsper Swing has been sold out virtually every year. In the over 25 yrs we have held it, we have raised over $200,000.  Last summer I asked the UND staff if they knew how it got started and no one knew. UND staff could have listened right away but eventually bought in. They probably should know those who helped along the way (they used to, but now don’t).  However, my wife and I know we made a difference cuz we want UND to be successful as the premier institution of higher education in the Dakotas and region, as well as competing for conference and National Championships athletically. 
 

Is it someone else’s job?  Yes. Can they use help? Yes. Do they always connect with everyone? No. 
 

I will tell I doubt anyone who owns a business, supervises others, is on any type of team etc. want anything to do with the sad souls whose response is “It’s not my job”.  
 

You seem to struggle to understand my comments. I don’t believe we should fix anything ourselves. You are wrong if you believe that it shouldn’t be the case for all of us to be part of the solution. If you don’t believe that to be true,  then maybe that is why others ignore you. 

[iramurphy]

6 hours ago, Irish said:

Gee - What do you think I should do about it - I am giving my max with Club membership and season tickets.  I have been a fan for many years and am in regular attendance.  I'm sure if I doubled my contribution I still would not get a seat at the table - let alone get a chance to express my views and then get "excused".  I certainly would have no input in decisions like extending a 6-5 Bubba before his contract is up and likely to get no insight or explanation.  As to gaining better insight into the challenges I am anxious to listen but the information from the Athletic Department is zip.  Other than our need for Phase Two I have no idea what our expectations and plans are for our programs - We are now at a point where since 2016 our combined playoff win total from Football and Hockey is 2 - and one of the schools we beat is  American International.  The fact is that almost all of us except those with connections or a big checkbook are outside looking in.  The demand for excellence needs to come from the Administration and Athletic Department.  And I stand by my comments about indifferent Presidents and weak AD's - the jury is still out on Chaves but things need to improve.  

You are supporting UND athletics generously. However, you seem very frustrated with how things are run. 

I would suggest you make an appointment with Tim Belmore or Steve Brekke. Tell them you are a Champions Club member and would like an update on the facilities projects/future plans and what UND feels are the most important issues moving forward and whether there are areas where you might help or get involved.

If you don’t start the initial meeting with complaints/demands about who should be fired etc I would think you will find an opportunity to develop a positive relationship with some key UND staff guys. It will at least create an opportunity for you to get the information you seem to want. 

[Kab]

Only golfed in 1 Sioux per swing was 99.9 % Sioux fans and 1 ndsu grad, he had a business that supports many things so he golfed too.

was at Red  Mike out by Williston.  Try golf there if you are in the area.  I haven’t seen much about these events lately, are they held more in eastern Nd and Minnesota?

just seen the griz coach was at their version of this in Sidney, Mt, he said it’s a must to attend those things no matter where they are because there are griz fans everywhere 

 

[iramurphy]

31 minutes ago, Kab said:

Only golfed in 1 Sioux per swing was 99.9 % Sioux fans and 1 ndsu grad, he had a business that supports many things so he golfed too.

was at Red  Mike out by Williston.  Try golf there if you are in the area.  I haven’t seen much about these events lately, are they held more in eastern Nd and Minnesota?

just seen the griz coach was at their version of this in Sidney, Mt, he said it’s a must to attend those things no matter where they are because there are griz fans everywhere 

 

Detroit Lakes, Fargo, Grand Forks, Park Rapids, Bismarck. I’m not sure about anywhere else. Hockey team and FB teams have them. Usually see FB, Hockey, MBB and WBB coaches in DL. Also see AD, Alumni Staff, and Champions Club staff. AD usually gives update on what’s going on at UND. Coaches would give brief update. 

[zonadub]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

…

For over 20 yrs what was initially called the Siouxsper Swing has been sold out virtually every year. In the over 25 yrs we have held it, we have raised over $200,000.  Last summer I asked the UND staff if they knew how it got started and no one knew. …

I think this validates what UND-FB-FAN is saying.

[iramurphy]

1 hour ago, zonadub said:

I think this validates what UND-FB-FAN is saying.

Nonsense. It doesn’t validate anything. It’s an example of little things we can do to help if we want to improve things. 

It should validate what I’ve been trying to point out. If we want things to get better do something about it. You don’t need big money to help. Lots of folks on this forum have raised money for specific projects (helmet covers etc). 

Those of you who feel the best approach is to complain, and constantly criticize, then do so if that’s your style. Apparently most folks prefer a different approach. I don’t believe I’m going to change anyone’s opinion.  


 

[Kab]

8 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Detroit Lakes, Fargo, Grand Forks, Park Rapids, Bismarck. I’m not sure about anywhere else. Hockey team and FB teams have them. Usually see FB, Hockey, MBB and WBB coaches in DL. Also see AD, Alumni Staff, and Champions Club staff. AD usually gives update on what’s going on at UND. Coaches would give brief update. 

Looks like everything is Bismarck and east, a perfect venue would be bully pulpit in Medora for western ND, 

[Bison Dan]

Love how you guys think that it's money that's keeping your sports teams from succeeding.  Your hockey team is at the top in support (money) and FB is up there too.  Success starts at the top with the president and then the AD.  Getting coaches that are good and pay them.  You have one sport that's so top heavy in salaries that it stifles all other sports.  Point being is you have the money it's just not distributed like it should be.  You have some coaches that would coach for free but are they the best coaches.  Hell you have a radio guy coaching FB because no one would apply.  Hockey is a great sport but it doesn't have to be the end all be all.  Look at Duluth and St. Cloud, they pay a fraction of what you pay for hockey and have success.  There's a reason your AD was run out of EWU.  

[108498]

To be completely honest, I felt the football team had a much better year then the hockey team. The hockey program has taken a big downfall since the past coach left.

[UND1983]

1 hour ago, Bison Dan said:

Love how you guys think that it's money that's keeping your sports teams from succeeding.  Your hockey team is at the top in support (money) and FB is up there too.  Success starts at the top with the president and then the AD.  Getting coaches that are good and pay them.  You have one sport that's so top heavy in salaries that it stifles all other sports.  Point being is you have the money it's just not distributed like it should be.  You have some coaches that would coach for free but are they the best coaches.  Hell you have a radio guy coaching FB because no one would apply.  Hockey is a great sport but it doesn't have to be the end all be all.  Look at Duluth and St. Cloud, they pay a fraction of what you pay for hockey and have success.  There's a reason your AD was run out of EWU.  

Hold up… Dosch is a radio guy?  And nobody applied?