Some Thoughts on UND's FB Program

[SIOUXFAN97]

7 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Chipman -> WIH
Fennell -> his kid played for Sparty if that matters

My guess is @iramurphy has been in a room with each in the last twelve months. 

that's why i wanna hear what ira has to say...

[Mama Sue]

46 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

The niche that is college hockey does not have a promising track record, particularly as the primarily funded sport. NCAA division one college basketball has significant viewership and revenue potential. Baseball, Lacrosse, and hockey all have their challenges (again, if considered as the #1). 
 

The proposed solution, as I understand this an important prerequisite for you, is less money for hockey and more for football. This seems like the more realistic option since it’s quite obvious hockey will never be replaced by football at the University of North Dakota (although this would be my second proposal since you like two).

Well I may not be able to dispute much of what you say but I know for a FACT that some/most/many college football programs bring in 10 times more than any other sport including basketball. 
Why? Simple math seating of stadiums vs. arenas. Fill 86,000+ seats and that is revenue.

But it is commitment and pride that fills my heart, most of the time, before I open my pocket book for my small contribution in the scope of major donors.

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

I believe there's money out there for football from football alumni and other potential donors. Why isn't it coming in? Nobody asked them? On-field performance? Coaching staff? Already earmarking it for other things? (Now I am sad I couldn't make the alumni event in Fargo a couple weeks ago; wonder what they were asking for at that one.) 

I do not believe in cutting something successful on the hope that'll make something else successful. 

As mentioned, I think the lack of communication and leadership from the CC and AA is contributing to the lack of funds from football alumni and potential donors. Heck, throw the coaching staff in there too, because wins matter as does their outreach. UND just doesn’t appear to try hard enough, or, dare I say it, they hired people not competent enough for the job description.

Again, we can agree to disagree, but I think hockey is profitable only because of the $100M gift they received from Vegas. Sure, it’s sustainable, but not projected to break even for nearly 100 years of hockey. Profits are only around $1M per year, but yet the investment was $100M? Doesn’t add up. Sure, there are non hockey events that add to the $1M annual profit, but not significantly. Bottom line, you’re not going to get a bunch of profit with UND athletics, so it just comes down to where you allocate the funds. Either way, UND hockey won’t be losing their $100M gift/facility, so they’ll be at an advantage even if they lose some of their unnecessary funding to und football. Heck, hockey (and the fans) would barely notice if they lost 500-1000k to football. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, Mama Sue said:

Well I may not be able to dispute much of what you say but I know for a FACT that some/most/many college football programs bring in 10 times more than any other sport including basketball. 
Why? Simple math seating of stadiums vs. arenas. Fill 86,000+ seats and that is revenue.

But it is commitment and pride that fills my heart, most of the time, before I open my pocket book for my small contribution in the scope of major donors.

You’re correct, football is the #1 most profitable collegiate sport, but it requires large stadiums; not 10k-20k like FCS North Dakota and North Dakota State support.

[SIOUXFAN97]

13 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

As mentioned, I think the lack of communication and leadership from the CC and AA is contributing to the lack of funds from football alumni and potential donors. Heck, throw the coaching staff in there too, because wins matter as does their outreach. UND just doesn’t appear to try hard enough, or, dare I say it, they hired people not competent enough for the job description.

Again, we can agree to disagree, but I think hockey is profitable only because of the $100M gift they received from Vegas. Sure, it’s sustainable, but not projected to break even for nearly 100 years of hockey. Profits are only around $1M per year, but yet the investment was $100M? Doesn’t add up. Sure, there are non hockey events that add to the $1M annual profit, but not significantly. Bottom line, you’re not going to get a bunch of profit with UND athletics, so it just comes down to where you allocate the funds. Either way, UND hockey won’t be losing their $100M gift/facility, so they’ll be at an advantage even if they lose some of their unnecessary funding to und football. Heck, hockey (and the fans) would barely notice if they lost 500-1000k to football. 

100%

[SIOUXFAN97]

12 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

You’re correct, football is the #1 most profitable collegiate sport, but it requires large stadiums; not 10k-20k like FCS North Dakota and North Dakota State support.

mcfooley triggered alert..................................................

[nodak651]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

As mentioned, I think the lack of communication and leadership from the CC and AA is contributing to the lack of funds from football alumni and potential donors. Heck, throw the coaching staff in there too, because wins matter as does their outreach. UND just doesn’t appear to try hard enough, or, dare I say it, they hired people not competent enough for the job description.

Again, we can agree to disagree, but I think hockey is profitable only because of the $100M gift they received from Vegas. Sure, it’s sustainable, but not projected to break even for nearly 100 years of hockey. Profits are only around $1M per year, but yet the investment was $100M? Doesn’t add up. Sure, there are non hockey events that add to the $1M annual profit, but not significantly. Bottom line, you’re not going to get a bunch of profit with UND athletics, so it just comes down to where you allocate the funds. Either way, UND hockey won’t be losing their $100M gift/facility, so they’ll be at an advantage even if they lose some of their unnecessary funding to und football. Heck, hockey (and the fans) would barely notice if they lost 500-1000k to football. 

Add back depreciation.

[UND-FB-FAN]

15 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Add back depreciation.

Ha, that’s a good one. You proposing the REA has significantly depreciated? Certainly not to any degree where it would significantly change the underlying concept. So maybe from 100 years to break even to perhaps 50-70 years?

[Sioux>Bison]

20 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

So it can be spent on *another* hockey locker room renovation? No thanks. Priorities need to be clarified. 

Would anyone from the Alumni Association or Champions Cub even acknowledge such donation? Based on conversations I’ve had, as well as personal experience, I doubt it.

University of North Dakota needs better leadership and direction, first, then we’ll see how it goes. 
 

And as a disclaimer, this isn’t a one time donation or single donor issue; it’s a systemic issue, so don’t point the finger at me.

It’s not your money they are spending. Donors have specified what they want their money to fund and most of that money is going to hockey. UND is not going to divert the money to some other program. To say they are not soliciting money to fund the football program is an easy thing to criticize from the outside. If you were a big enough donor they would listen to you but you need to bring $$$$ and solutions to the table. 
 

like many people said before no one likes a complainer, and you don’t get a say unless you have some $$$$$ brought to the table

[Sioux>Bison]

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

As mentioned, I think the lack of communication and leadership from the CC and AA is contributing to the lack of funds from football alumni and potential donors. Heck, throw the coaching staff in there too, because wins matter as does their outreach. UND just doesn’t appear to try hard enough, or, dare I say it, they hired people not competent enough for the job description.

Again, we can agree to disagree, but I think hockey is profitable only because of the $100M gift they received from Vegas. Sure, it’s sustainable, but not projected to break even for nearly 100 years of hockey. Profits are only around $1M per year, but yet the investment was $100M? Doesn’t add up. Sure, there are non hockey events that add to the $1M annual profit, but not significantly. Bottom line, you’re not going to get a bunch of profit with UND athletics, so it just comes down to where you allocate the funds. Either way, UND hockey won’t be losing their $100M gift/facility, so they’ll be at an advantage even if they lose some of their unnecessary funding to und football. Heck, hockey (and the fans) would barely notice if they lost 500-1000k to football. 

The arena didn’t need to be 100 million to sell it out at 11k tickets. Ralph chose for it to be the nicest arena in the country. 
 

it takes more than money to make a program successful. UND football has slowly turned into a winning program and the new facilities will only help. Honestly the salaries are the only thing left to bring us to the top level. It takes time and can’t happen overnight unless we can find the next Football Ralph.

you are doing no one a favor by tearing down a UND athletic program, actually embarrassing for many of us to read this on a public forum.

[UND-FB-FAN]

20 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

The arena didn’t need to be 100 million to sell it out at 11k tickets. Ralph chose for it to be the nicest arena in the country. 
 

it takes more than money to make a program successful. UND football has slowly turned into a winning program and the new facilities will only help. Honestly the salaries are the only thing left to bring us to the top level. It takes time and can’t happen overnight unless we can find the next Football Ralph.

you are doing no one a favor by tearing down a UND athletic program, actually embarrassing for many of us to read this on a public forum.

“Takes time” 

“Tearing down a UND athletic program” 

Hilarious that you worship Ralph in such a way. Also, the ridiculous hyperbole shows you have no grasp on any realistic solutions. Plus, doing nothing and just waiting - since it “takes time” - is such a typical nonsensical approach to this issue. It’s wrong, by the way. Reallocation is hardly tearing something down that is already over-inflated. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

28 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

it takes more than money to make a program successful.

Already mentioned - catch up

[UND-FB-FAN]

29 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Honestly the salaries are the only thing left to bring us to the top level.

Simplistic approach. Salaries need to improve, yes, but you need to actually pay someone what they’re worth. Has the current staff earned an increase? 

[SiouxFan100]

Another chicken or the egg

[Nodak78]

1 hour ago, SiouxFan100 said:

Another chicken or the egg

This is a forever embryo.

[iramurphy]

8 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Chipman -> WIH
Fennell -> his kid played for Sparty if that matters

My guess is @iramurphy has been in a room with each in the last twelve months. 

Dave is willing to make a significant contribution. UND staff has been working hard to make something work. Dave has been in the jungles of Guyana on one of his mining projects so it will take time.  I’m not involved so nothing more to tell. I haven’t talked to him since before Thanksgiving. 

I haven’t spoken to Mark in over a year. He had previously said indicated interest in supporting UND but it was just a brief chat. UND has been in contact,  but there are others close to Mark who would have current info. regarding level of interest and timing. 

[Wright4UND]

My disappointment from being a recent fan is that the students don't come to the football games.  It looks like maybe 1,000 students come to a big game.  In the last 4 years the home record for the football team 18-2 (only losses to NDSU and SDSU) so the record is outstanding.  The games have been exciting as well!

If they could coax 2,000 students to a game then the atmosphere would be electric!  I think the Athletic Dept., coaching staff and players should do more to get the students out to the games.  Go to the frat and sorority meetings to let them know they are wanted and needed.  Go to freshman orientations to get them hooked early.  Need more buy in! 

I think the program is set up for a really good season!  I'm looking forward to it! 

[iramurphy]

14 minutes ago, Wright4UND said:

My disappointment from being a recent fan is that the students don't come to the football games.  It looks like maybe 1,000 students come to a big game.  In the last 4 years the home record for the football team 18-2 (only losses to NDSU and SDSU) so the record is outstanding.  The games have been exciting as well!

If they could coax 2,000 students to a game then the atmosphere would be electric!  I think the Athletic Dept., coaching staff and players should do more to get the students out to the games.  Go to the frat and sorority meetings to let them know they are wanted and needed.  Go to freshman orientations to get them hooked early.  Need more buy in! 

I think the program is set up for a really good season!  I'm looking forward to it! 

Good points. I know coaches and players from different sports have done that in the past. I’m not sure how recently.
 Some sort of promotion or contest between dorms and or Greek organizations might help. 

[SiouxHawkGuy]

16 minutes ago, Wright4UND said:

My disappointment from being a recent fan is that the students don't come to the football games.  It looks like maybe 1,000 students come to a big game.  In the last 4 years the home record for the football team 18-2 (only losses to NDSU and SDSU) so the record is outstanding.  The games have been exciting as well!

If they could coax 2,000 students to a game then the atmosphere would be electric!  I think the Athletic Dept., coaching staff and players should do more to get the students out to the games.  Go to the frat and sorority meetings to let them know they are wanted and needed.  Go to freshman orientations to get them hooked early.  Need more buy in! 

I think the program is set up for a really good season!  I'm looking forward to it! 

They get preoccupied with jumping up and down in the back of a pickup. 

[SWSiouxMN]

22 minutes ago, Wright4UND said:

My disappointment from being a recent fan is that the students don't come to the football games.  It looks like maybe 1,000 students come to a big game.  In the last 4 years the home record for the football team 18-2 (only losses to NDSU and SDSU) so the record is outstanding.  The games have been exciting as well!

If they could coax 2,000 students to a game then the atmosphere would be electric!  I think the Athletic Dept., coaching staff and players should do more to get the students out to the games.  Go to the frat and sorority meetings to let them know they are wanted and needed.  Go to freshman orientations to get them hooked early.  Need more buy in! 

I think the program is set up for a really good season!  I'm looking forward to it! 

Wait, NoDak Nation not doing their job?

Say it ain't so!

[UND-FB-FAN]

41 minutes ago, Wright4UND said:

My disappointment from being a recent fan is that the students don't come to the football games.  It looks like maybe 1,000 students come to a big game.  In the last 4 years the home record for the football team 18-2 (only losses to NDSU and SDSU) so the record is outstanding.  The games have been exciting as well!

If they could coax 2,000 students to a game then the atmosphere would be electric!  I think the Athletic Dept., coaching staff and players should do more to get the students out to the games.  Go to the frat and sorority meetings to let them know they are wanted and needed.  Go to freshman orientations to get them hooked early.  Need more buy in! 

I think the program is set up for a really good season!  I'm looking forward to it! 

It’s all a matter of culture. UND students know hockey is the centerpiece and this that is where their attendance efforts lie. $100M facilities appeal to students as much as alumni/fans. UND athletic administration half-assing football is the issue for this particular problem (student attendance) as well as all other bigger problems (wins-losses, overall attendance, coaching salaries, facility deficits, alumni/booster outreach, etc.). 

[The Sicatoka]

I'm going to say the quiet part out loud:
You see fewer and fewer students at college sporting events when you look closely. 
That's a trend everywhere. 

[The Sicatoka]

18 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

You’re correct, football is the #1 most profitable collegiate sport, but it requires large stadiums; not 10k-20k like FCS North Dakota and North Dakota State support.

So what is the "right size" stadium for those schools you mention. 

[UND08]

At the risk of mucking things up more...I'm going to make a couple points.  I will say...this is a message board...and I have yet to see SS on the "Message Board Geniuses" twitter page...so we have a ways to go before we win the "race to the bottom"...haha!

1 - Hockey is #1 at UND and will always be.  Because of that...non-hockey people will always feel like their sports are slighted.  Also...a hockey-centric athletic department model is somewhat of a rarity in the NCAA.  If I was crafting a department from scratch...it's not how I'd do it (too niche of a sport) ...but I can appreciate why it's the case at UND.  However that philosophy will always lead to issues with other sports.  There are obvious pros and cons to both sides of this coin.

2 - The Champions Club doesn't get it done.  I'm sorry but I see what Teammakers accomplishes at NDSU and our efforts are just lacking.  I know Ira is passionate about UND, and I really do appreciate it...but if they are attempting to cultivate new donor relationships then it's being done completely in the blind to me.  There's zero presence here in Minot where I live...but NDSU Teammakers have fundraisers here all the time.  The local university here does a much better job trying to build relationships...and even though I did not go to school at Minot State...they get most of my dollars now.  Maybe I'm too small of a fish for UND...but I like to think I'll be a bigger fish someday, and it's just a simple reality that supporting Minot State is more likely to help my employer and industry at this point in developing future employees (I get it we can see the end of the world from here...haha!).  I think a re-working of the Champions Club with some new ideas would pay some big dividends in my book!

3 - Back to football...I've been critical in the past, but I will 100% give credit where credit is due.  Coach Schweigert engaged me, met with me...and spelled out his immediate goals for the program while in the area on a recruiting trip.  He didn't have to do that...and it impressed the heck out of me!  Nobody wants to win more than he does.  I really hope we can take another step forward this year...there's no reason we can't in my book!  My only donations to UND are directly toward football initiatives at this point...because that's the program I care most about.  If there are others out there like me...I'd challenge you to do the same!  Simply put...money talks and BS walks...College sports are a giant money pit...but they are fun and it takes money to make money (and win).

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, Wright4UND said:

My disappointment from being a recent fan is that the students don't come to the football games.  It looks like maybe 1,000 students come to a big game.  In the last 4 years the home record for the football team 18-2 (only losses to NDSU and SDSU) so the record is outstanding.  The games have been exciting as well!

If they could coax 2,000 students to a game then the atmosphere would be electric!  I think the Athletic Dept., coaching staff and players should do more to get the students out to the games.  Go to the frat and sorority meetings to let them know they are wanted and needed.  Go to freshman orientations to get them hooked early.  Need more buy in! 

I think the program is set up for a really good season!  I'm looking forward to it! 

We had a strong student section in the Alerus Center from 2001-2005. Which is also when we were national contenders. Funny how that correlates.