UND versus NDSU - 1st DIV I Conference Game 2020 Rona moved to 2021 @ Manure Pit - RIVALRY?

[siouxfan512]

2 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Short answer is no. Bison sold out to stop Weah and still had lots of trouble with him.

We didn't run Weah enough for them to sell out to stop him, and had that been the case, then the passing game should have been better.

[Bison06]

You can call it selling out for the run, but no disrespect meant I would refer to our defensive approach as we didn’t feel threatened by your passing game. It looked to me like our coaches felt comfortable with man coverage as they liked the matchups athletically. That just allowed an extra defender in the run game. 
 

I realize that seems like splitting hairs, but I think it’s what made the difference in the game. 
 

Others have said this again and again here, but UND needs a burner/big play maker on the outside to keep defenses honest. It really is amazing what a single player can do to change a game at times. 

[Sioux94]

57 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

I think this is the year to get the Bison. Maybe if you get them at home in the playoffs. Next year when they play in the Alerus, you will be facing a much better NDSU team with a much better QB and more mature OL and DL. They started a true freshman and another played some on the OL yesterday. 

And the fact that Freund doesn't get Weah at least 25 touches a game is a travesty. It appeared Skokna and Gee were on the field for as many if not more snaps than Weah. Weah should have been used as much as Luepke was yesterday. take him out for a play or two breather every few plays.  And Schuster needs to run some. There were a few times yesterday he had 10 yards and a first down if he would have taken it. 

He has done that all year, literally almost never runs even when there is room.  Teams don't have to even respect it at all.  He isn't that fast and usually only gets a few yards when he does run, even when it's open.  But sometimes you just have to make the other team think about it.   Maybe it will all come together in a critical 4th down play late in year or playoffs and he runs a naked bootleg for a first down.  

[nd1sufan]

23 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

We can disagree. Pre-NDSU I thought we had outcoached the other staff in all 4 games, some by a bunch. 

First TD run by Leupke they pulled a guard away from the play which gave them numbers at point of attack.  Set the tone for the game.  How about that for momentum? a FB's first carry of the season goes for a 55 yard almost untouched TD run which had zero to do with DL deficiency.

1st 4th down on O we have what amounted to a FB dive with Weah lined up 7 yards deep.  NDSU knows its coming and has the middle stacked.  No reason not to call a TO.  Huge momentum play in the game.

 

Play calling in the 2nd qtr was lousy at best.  The game was still ours to take at that point.  Weah had 4 rushes for 30 yards(7.5 ypc) in the 2nd qtr and Tommy was 4-10 in the 2nd qtr.  No idea why Weah didn't have 10 rushes, how likely was he to house one at that point.  Need to come up with PA using OW and no idea why he is EVER split out in the slot?  Who are we fooling?  

After Morrison left the game the DC needed to stack the box and make Zeb beat us.  We didn't.  Zeb completed 5 passes in the game and 2 of them were in the first 2 drives, then they pulled him after the 2nd pick.  

Overall no idea why Weah doesn't get 20 plus carries a game.  He is the home run threat.

The officiating WAS brutal, but control what you can control and don't worry about the rest.  I'm not sure how it would have affected the outcome of the play but I thought Siegel hit at goalline which caused pick could have been targeting.  Late OPI was missed on Watson TD for sure as was a late in the game PI on a deep fade.

 

 

Totally agree on Weah. He needs 25 touches a game. He scared me every time he touched the ball. Skokna and Gee didn't scare me at all. 

The officials did not have their best day. I agree, there was a DPI on the Bison missed in the fourth quarter. I agree with you on the Siegel hit. It was definitely helmet to helmet. Watson was a little woozy and I think it he stays on the ground they probably would have looked at it and may have called it targeting and reversed the pick. The Watson OPI will rarely get called. It was a wr making a play on a ball the was under thrown and the db who didn't have a clue where the ball was was touched in the process. Not an automatic call at all. And the DPI on the fake punt, you can't have DPI on a gunner. Throw that in the middle of the field and you may have a case. 

And I like how everybody is shocked that Leupke carried the ball at all. Look at his HS numbers. He ran for something like 5,000 yards and 82 TD's. He runs somewhere between a 4.5 and 4.6 forty. He ran away from UND LB's and Siegel barely caught him.  Roehl said before the season that he would get some looks at TB because of his athleticism but he was hurt until this week. 

[siouxfan512]

2 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

You can call it selling out for the run, but no disrespect meant I would refer to our defensive approach as we didn’t feel threatened by your passing game. It looked to me like our coaches felt comfortable with man coverage as they liked the matchups athletically. That just allowed an extra defender in the run game. 
 

I realize that seems like splitting hairs, but I think it’s what made the difference in the game. 
 

Others have said this again and again here, but UND needs a burner/big play maker on the outside to keep defenses honest. It really is amazing what a single player can do to change a game at times. 

agreed. I think SU put more on the run than the pass, and I don't think it is only that UND didn't have the guys to play the passing game, they just didn't play it. Belquist has speed and has proven to be a young talent. Maag is extremely talented, but just doesn't seem to play up to his size. Preston will be good, and has shown flashes, but is not a burner. WR talent is there; I don't know if they need to be pushed harder, or what the deal is, but we should have been able to pass more. Even if we had Boltman, he isn't going to burn anybody, he is just tough and shift.

[Dustin]

5 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

no disrespect meant I would refer to our defensive approach as we didn’t feel threatened by your passing game

Ironically, this is the precise game plan that I feel UND should have taken against NDSU. 

[siouxfan512]

2 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

Totally agree on Weah. He needs 25 touches a game. He scared me every time he touched the ball. Skokna and Gee didn't scare me at all. 

The officials did not have their best day. I agree, there was a DPI on the Bison missed in the fourth quarter. I agree with you on the Siegel hit. It was definitely helmet to helmet. Watson was a little woozy and I think it he stays on the ground they probably would have looked at it and may have called it targeting and reversed the pick. The Watson OPI will rarely get called. It was a wr making a play on a ball the was under thrown and the db who didn't have a clue where the ball was was touched in the process. Not an automatic call at all. And the DPI on the fake punt, you can't have DPI on a gunner. Throw that in the middle of the field and you may have a case. 

And I like how everybody is shocked that Leupke carried the ball at all. Look at his HS numbers. He ran for something like 5,000 yards and 82 TD's. He runs somewhere between a 4.5 and 4.6 forty. He ran away from UND LB's and Siegel barely caught him.  Roehl said before the season that he would get some looks at TB because of his athleticism but he was hurt until this week. 

You seem pretty spot on with your points, and thanks for not being an jerk like some of the Bison fans here.

I would love to see another matchup again the Bison in the playoffs, IF we can learn from our own mistakes. You are correct that Weah needs more touches, and Schuster needs to make better decisions on when to run. He isn't a speedy runner, but he is capable when the opportunities are there. I guess a loss this weekend makes for a more interesting finish to the MVFC season.

[Bison06]

1 minute ago, Dustin said:

Ironically, this is the precise game plan that I feel UND should have taken against NDSU. 

How so? Watson had a nice game and if UND had less focus on him wouldn’t it have given him even more opportunities?

[nd1sufan]

25 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

and Schuster needs to make better decisions on when to run. He isn't a speedy runner, but he is capable when the opportunities are there.

Hell, he is at least as athletic as Kirk Cousins and ever he scrambles for a first down when he can run for ten yards and slide or run out of bounds.

[nd1sufan]

27 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

How so? Watson had a nice game and if UND had less focus on him wouldn’t it have given him even more opportunities?

Watson for NDSU is like Weah for UND. Under used. They have to figure out a way to get it in his hands at least 10 times a game. It could go to the house every time he touches it. 

[nodakvindy]

3 hours ago, Bison06 said:

That’s correct. On a punt return there is no such thing as defensive PI. 
 

As a previous poster said, you could run a fake punt every time and just throw it up and get a PI call because the defender is blocking the gunner all the way down the field. 
 

Special teams plays routinely have special rules. eg. can’t hit the long snapper when his head is down or line up directly over him. 

It's not quite that cut and dried. The rule says there is no PI If the kick trues to simulate a kick by throwing high and deep.  A swing pass or short sideline throw would not seem to apply. High and deep is certainly open to interpretation but it's not a blanket waiving of PI on a fake. 

[Bison06]

43 minutes ago, nodakvindy said:

It's not quite that cut and dried. The rule says there is no PI If the kick trues to simulate a kick by throwing high and deep.  A swing pass or short sideline throw would not seem to apply. High and deep is certainly open to interpretation but it's not a blanket waiving of PI on a fake. 

Fair enough. I’ve watched football at all levels for 25 years and I’ve never seen it called.

[Midwestern Hawk]

7 hours ago, siouxfan512 said:

We didn't run Weah enough for them to sell out to stop him, and had that been the case, then the passing game should have been better.

The safety was coming downhill at the snap to load the box when Weah was running(not when Skokna or Gee we’re running) . Watch the game again .  They were manned up in our receivers so tight they lined up offsides on one play.  It’s the reason we had to try backshoulder fades which were not in sync.  
im pretty sure their MLB went down around halftime.  No idea why we didn’t run Weah 20-30 times and take some deep play action off it . A decent throw on a post where the safety vacated and it’s 6.  The a bison were daring us to do it.  We took one half-assed deep shot, Maag on a short out and up  and Tommy made a poor throw. 
 

[Midwestern Hawk]

6 hours ago, nd1sufan said:

Watson for NDSU is like Weah for UND. Under used. They have to figure out a way to get it in his hands at least 10 times a game. It could go to the house every time he touches it. 

You will struggle with that.  Noland is not good and Not sure if Miller can throw or not based on Saturday.  The TD was underthrown and should have been picked off.  Watson got away with a push but made a great play.

[Midwestern Hawk]

8 hours ago, nd1sufan said:

And I like how everybody is shocked that Leupke carried the ball at all. Look at his HS numbers. He ran for something like 5,000 yards and 82 TD's. He runs somewhere between a 4.5 and 4.6 forty. He ran away from UND LB's and Siegel barely caught him.  Roehl said before the season that he would get some looks at TB because of his athleticism but he was hurt until this week. 

I’m not shocked at all . I was honestly impressed with that first run play call.  At least one OL pulled to the left, leupke went right.  NDSU knew what the UND LBers/safeties were reading. If that’s traditional zone stretch it goes for 1-5 yards.  Set the tone for the game.  I was just giving Bison coaches props for that.  Not the only time in game where they used false OL movement.

Leupke is a fantastic back when a team is playing with the lead . You used your horse and we didn’t.  The UND OL was just as dominant as NDSU.   We were consumed with throwing 5 yard passes and back shoulder fades.  No idea why Shuster didn’t pull it down and run a few times.

[Sioux>Bison]

Monday morning recap:

UND shot the bed and was exposed that this young team has much to work on. UND defense has been exposed the last two weeks and they need to step up to win these last should/must win games.

NDSU is not the best team in the valley and could go 0-3 the next few weeks. They are barely one dimensional as of last week. All three D lines in the upcoming games are going to be better than UND and will shut the run down. Good thing NDSU won the Siouxper bowl because that could be the last highlight of the season for them.......

[Nodak78]

6 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Monday morning recap:

UND shot the bed and was exposed that this young team has much to work on. UND defense has been exposed the last two weeks and they need to step up to win these last should/must win games.

NDSU is not the best team in the valley and could go 0-3 the next few weeks. They are barely one dimensional as of last week. All three D lines in the upcoming games are going to be better than UND and will shut the run down. Good thing NDSU won the Siouxper bowl because that could be the last highlight of the season for them.......

Not so sure about the yotes.  But definitely SDSU and UNI DL will be tougher.

[Sioux>Bison]

22 minutes ago, Nodak78 said:

Not so sure about the yotes.  But definitely SDSU and UNI DL will be tougher.

Honestly can’t get much worse than UND’s performance so unless USD has injuries at DL they will be better!

[Bison06]

1 hour ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Monday morning recap:

UND shot the bed and was exposed that this young team has much to work on. UND defense has been exposed the last two weeks and they need to step up to win these last should/must win games.

NDSU is not the best team in the valley and could go 0-3 the next few weeks. They are barely one dimensional as of last week. All three D lines in the upcoming games are going to be better than UND and will shut the run down. Good thing NDSU won the Siouxper bowl because that could be the last highlight of the season for them.......

Obviously I’m biased, but I see it the opposite for NDSU, they finally woke up last week and I see them continuing that moving forward. They seemed to find a rhythm that wasn’t there previously and I think they are gonna be dangerous moving forward. I see them rattling off some wins 3-0 or 2-1 the next few weeks is what I expect.

[SWSiouxMN]

Just now, Bison06 said:

Obviously I’m biased, but I see it the opposite for NDSU, they finally woke up last week and I see them continuing that moving forward. They seemed to find a rhythm that wasn’t there previously and I think they are gonna be dangerous moving forward. I see them rattling off some wins 3-0 or 2-1 the next few weeks is what I expect.

You should beat USD and UNI. SDSU will be a toss up.  

[Bison06]

1 minute ago, SWSiouxMN said:

You should beat USD and UNI. SDSU will be a toss up.  

I agree. SDSU is a toss up almost every year for ndsu regardless of records.

[Fry Bread]

1 minute ago, Bison06 said:

Obviously I’m biased, but I see it the opposite for NDSU, they finally woke up last week and I see them continuing that moving forward. They seemed to find a rhythm that wasn’t there previously and I think they are gonna be dangerous moving forward. I see them rattling off some wins 3-0 or 2-1 the next few weeks is what I expect.

I would not be surprised if you are correct. I am not sure I would buy into the argument of NDSU being one dimensional in regards to Lumpke (spelling?)

if it’s working why would you do something different?

[UND1983]

29 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Obviously I’m biased, but I see it the opposite for NDSU, they finally woke up last week and I see them continuing that moving forward. They seemed to find a rhythm that wasn’t there previously and I think they are gonna be dangerous moving forward. I see them rattling off some wins 3-0 or 2-1 the next few weeks is what I expect.

I think you're overstating their emergence.  They won't be able to run that package vs everyone else.  it worked vs UND cause they are smaller and it was new.  At some point Zeb needs to throw again and other running backs have to play, like the weeks before when they could barely move the ball. 

[Bison06]

2 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

I think you're overstating their emergence.  They won't be able to run that package vs everyone else.  it worked vs UND cause they are smaller and it was new.  At some point Zeb needs to throw again and other running backs have to play, like the weeks before when they could barely move the ball. 

You could be right, but to my eye, they seemed to turn a corner in their understanding of how to run this offense. Every team comes together at different times and it looked like to me Saturday could be a turning point. 
 

Also, I’ve been watching these teams all play each other for a long time, I don’t see any reason why Luepke wouldn’t be effective against the upcoming schedule. Might be hard to repeat this weekends performance, but he isn’t some sort of gimmick that only works against UND’s defense. 

[nd1sufan]

4 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

 

Leupke is a fantastic back when a team is playing with the lead . You used your horse and we didn’t.  The UND OL was just as dominant as NDSU.   We were consumed with throwing 5 yard passes and back shoulder fades.  No idea why Shuster didn’t pull it down and run a few times.

Leupke is a good back with or without a lead. He is a bigger, stronger and faster James Johannesson. I suspect teams will stack the box and sell out on the run in the future but if you leave Watson one on one, it could be dangerous.

Not sure UND OL was quite as dominant. Quite a few tfl’s or 0-1 yard gains. I am not sure Leupke was stopped for less than 3 yards hardly at all that game.

And yes, Schuster needs to pull it down and run once in a while.