2020 Dumpster Fire (Enter at your own risk)

[Sioux>Bison]

10 hours ago, 802Sioux said:

In the case of policing issues. If civil forfeiture continues the money taken goes to schools and drug rehab not police hardware. If a person is fired from a department for cause there is a board similar to that for nurses where they are forced to register so they can’t be rehired. All civilian complaints must be considered when reviewing any current case so patterns can emerge. Co workers viewing the violence should be considered as participating in the same way driving the get away car for a killer makes you guilty. Brutality settlements should be made from police union and retirement accounts. Retaliating for reporting any abuse should be a felony with real time behind it. The limits on their immunity should be severely curtailed

Good luck getting that past the police unions! Democrats are the ones who are protecting the unions.......

[dynato]

57 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

The Floyd situation isn’t anywhere near as black and white (pardon the pun) as the Grand Forks shooting. 
Going by the letter of the law, proving beyond a reasonable doubt the charge of murder by the cop is going to be difficult to prove.  At which point the riot to end all riots will probably commence. 

If you know the law, you know there are multiple levels of murder in MN: first, second, and third degrees. There are also several levels of manslaughter, which rely less on intent and more on if the death happened under your control. Third degree murder is the killing of an individual, without premeditation, without intent to kill, while acting without regard for human life. This is the one that will most likely be pursued.

Floyd was clearly killed by an individual. The cop clearly acted without regard for human life. Floyd was killed without premeditation. So first degree murder is thrown out. Clear intent to kill will decide whether second or third degree is pursued, which is incredibly difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt as you said. There is video evidence that shows bystanders and the victim warning the officer of his questionable actions leading to his own death. The cop made the conscious decision to ignore warning, continuing his actions, which in the eyes of the law can be seen as a change from negligence to willful intent to kill. Ultimately it is up to the prosecuting party to confidently prove their case. Final verdict will likely depend on how good the guys lawyer is and if he enters a plea deal or not.

33 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

It took them 1.5 days to charge the shooter in GF.  It took 4 days to charge the police officer, who is obviously extended a greater benefit of the doubt due to his position and the unknowns of what led up to it.  

Saying it took only 4 days undermines the massive effort needed to put pressure on an unjust system in order for equal action to be taken against the officer. It took historic levels of widespread protests across nearly every state. Protests that extended into rioting and looting as a result of something so simple as holding four people who were bad at their job accountable for their actions. Despite being aware of being recorded, the officers lied on official reports. Revealing this systematic lie to the world was the catalyst for what we are now experiencing. 

If the cops were treated as normal citizens, they would have been arrested and charged promptly for causing a mans death. They would not be given several days or the benefit of the doubt considering they lied about the event that took place, with quick video and witness evidence to prove it. Cops are typically held to the same, if not stricter standards than every day citizens due to their training and position of power. This should be no different. If the authoritative, life ending power of the police wasn't so present and feared in their community, bystanders could have been able to prevent the cop from killing a fellow citizen. 

[MafiaMan]

13 hours ago, dlsiouxfan said:

You see Oxbow is attacking for you for posting on this website since you're a lazy, no good Cheeto eating liberal.  Nevermind that he and a few of his camp followers (MafiaMan) are seemingly on here 24/7.  They are true keyboard warriors fighting the good fight against evil liberals while also holding down highly important positions that afford them the luxury of posting hundreds of posts on a website daily.

Funny you should mention that as I lost my job as the result of the pandemic.  Yes, when I’m not waiting for hours on hold with the DWD and frantically trying to find ANYONE hiring right now, all while teaching my kids at home, I do have some spare time on my hands to check in here now and then.

[Siouxphan27]

3 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

My fear is they overcharge the cop and he is acquitted. They can prove murder three easily. 

Murder 3:  "....causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind,...."

these two requirements in the statute are what i feel may be hard to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.  Even though it looks egregious to anyone seeing this video, the defense will argue the act of knee on neck is not eminently dangerous; in fact, it is an endorsed practice by police departments and has been used over 200 times by the minneapolis police department.  

second part- displaying a depraved mind- he has no look of aggression, anger, etc.  he's just staring around aimlessly.  Indifference correlates to depravity.  But as a veteran cop, he's seen and heard it all.  His fellow cop is heard making a wisecrack about "don't do drugs."  They all thought Floyd was on drugs and thus ignored his pleas, and were not surprised he may have passed out.   Is the jury going to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt it was an act of depravity?  Or was it a veteran cop making the horrible mistake of not reacting to the situation because he had mistaken Floyd's actions as a result of drug use.  

Pre-existing heart issues, preliminary reports indicating possible meth and fentanyl in his system.  Did he die from the kneeling, or was he already suffering from a heart attack etc. and the cop's negligence just sped things along?

They should charge manslaughter instead of risking the overcharge and acquittal.  

[Oxbow6]

9 hours ago, MafiaMan said:

Funny you should mention that as I lost my job as the result of the pandemic.  Yes, when I’m not waiting for hours on hold with the DWD and frantically trying to find ANYONE hiring right now, all while teaching my kids at home, I do have some spare time on my hands to check in here now and then.

It's just nice to have dlsiouxfan checking on occasion to provide us with his Don Lemon-esque insight into this country's ills. Who knew dlsiouxfan would have the time to frequent here amid his shopping for crowbars, bricks and cans of spray paint plus having to count all the graves of our fallen war heros throughout the country.

[Oxbow6]

With all that's currently going on when do we get to the point where very few want to continue or pursue a career in law enforcement?  

[Oxbow6]

Grant Napear, the announcer for the NBA Sacramento Kings since 1988, was placed on adminstrative leave before being let go for a tweet that said "All live matter......every single one". Didn't realize "All lives matters" is now considered "racist" by BLM and the black community. This is where we currently are in this country. Pathetic.

[dynato]

16 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Grant Napear, the announcer for the NBA Sacramento Kings since 1988, was placed on adminstrative leave then before being let go for a tweet that said "All live matter......every single one". Didn't realize "All lives matters" is now considered "racist" by the BLM and black community. This is where we currently are in this country. Pathetic.

If you are a Christian, and can't hear #BlackLivesMatter without feeling the need to respond with a criticism that "All Lives Matter," then crack open your Bible and hit up Luke 15.

Don't have it handy? Let me summarize.

There are 100 sheep, but one goes missing. Jesus leaves the 99 and goes after the one.

The 99: "But... what about us? Don't we matter?"

Of course the 99 still matter, but they're not the ones in danger.

The one is.

[MafiaMan]

8 minutes ago, dynato said:

If you are a Christian...then crack open your Bible and hit up Luke 15.

There are 100 sheep, but one goes missing. Jesus leaves the 99 and goes after the one.

The 99: "But... what about us? Don't we matter?"

Of course the 99 still matter, but they're not the ones in danger.

The one is.

The irony of quoting Bible passages during a time when most people in America cannot currently congregate at their usual place of worship...

[SiouxBoys]

9 minutes ago, dynato said:

If you are a Christian, and can't hear #BlackLivesMatter without feeling the need to respond with a criticism that "All Lives Matter," then crack open your Bible and hit up Luke 15.

Don't have it handy? Let me summarize.

There are 100 sheep, but one goes missing. Jesus leaves the 99 and goes after the one.

The 99: "But... what about us? Don't we matter?"

Of course the 99 still matter, but they're not the ones in danger.

The one is.

Did David Dorn's life matter? What about Patrick Underwood? How come there is no Black Lives Matter outcry for their lives?

[GeauxSioux]

10 minutes ago, dynato said:

If you are a Christian, and can't hear #BlackLivesMatter without feeling the need to respond with a criticism that "All Lives Matter," then crack open your Bible and hit up Luke 15.

Don't have it handy? Let me summarize.

There are 100 sheep, but one goes missing. Jesus leaves the 99 and goes after the one.

The 99: "But... what about us? Don't we matter?"

Of course the 99 still matter, but they're not the ones in danger.

The one is.

So what you are saying is all 100 lives matter,  so.... "All lives matter".

[Siouxphan27]

1 hour ago, dynato said:

If you are a Christian, and can't hear #BlackLivesMatter without feeling the need to respond with a criticism that "All Lives Matter," then crack open your Bible and hit up Luke 15.

Don't have it handy? Let me summarize.

There are 100 sheep, but one goes missing. Jesus leaves the 99 and goes after the one.

The 99: "But... what about us? Don't we matter?"

Of course the 99 still matter, but they're not the ones in danger.

The one is.

To be accurate the title of the movement should be

Black Lives Matter If The Life Was Taken By A White Person So As To Be Used To Promote Racism, Regardless Of Intent Of Perpetrator, Or Statistical Proof. (Otherwise, We Don’t Care About Other Black Lives Lost)

[Sioux>Bison]

1 hour ago, dynato said:

If you are a Christian, and can't hear #BlackLivesMatter without feeling the need to respond with a criticism that "All Lives Matter," then crack open your Bible and hit up Luke 15.

Don't have it handy? Let me summarize.

There are 100 sheep, but one goes missing. Jesus leaves the 99 and goes after the one.

The 99: "But... what about us? Don't we matter?"

Of course the 99 still matter, but they're not the ones in danger.

The one is.

More white people does from cops every year so it is not just a black problem. Are you going to try to tell me that the white people were justified to be killed by the black people all were not? I get there are some bad confrontations with cops that go back decades, but simple respect for police will 99% of the time result in no conflict. When you go into a confrontation with a cop and act like an ass what do you think is going to happen? What about brown people? Do their lives not matter? Are they not seeing the same discrimination because you know they are? To classify all cops as racist is like classifying all the protesters as terrorists. 

[Sioux>Bison]

2 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

With all that's currently going on when do we get to the point where very few want to continue or pursue a career in law enforcement?  

I wouldn’t risk my life and my family’s livelihood because my future would be in the hands of a bunch of criminals that could ruin my life because of THEIR bad choices. All of these police conflicts start the same way, a crime is committed....... No Thanks!

if they try to change the way police react to dangerous situations by neutering their options we are just going to see more dead cops. I hear the cops that served the eviction notice in Grand Forks did not shoot the suspect as soon as he brandished his weapon. They delayed lethal force to give him the opportunity to surrender his weapon. He didn’t and eventually shot three people , killing two. Do you think this current events had something to do with the police’s reactions? I think so and that guy deserved to be filled with lead as soon as he pulled the weapon. Only one person deserved to die that day.......

[SWSiouxMN]

https://www.dakotanewsnow.com/content/news/SDSU-to-complete-fall-on-campus-instruction-by-Thanksgiving-570982521.html

Personally, this isn't a half-bad idea.  I always found it a bit silly that we had to go back for two weeks just for a few final classes and then finals and then leave for 3 weeks. 

[homer]

16 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

https://www.dakotanewsnow.com/content/news/SDSU-to-complete-fall-on-campus-instruction-by-Thanksgiving-570982521.html

Personally, this isn't a half-bad idea.  I always found it a bit silly that we had to go back for two weeks just for a few final classes and then finals and then leave for 3 weeks. 

This follows what the Notre Dame had put into place as well.  Get the kids on campuses and get the semester completed if this is truly a valid concern.  

[SWSiouxMN]

14 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

My fear is they overcharge the cop and he is acquitted. They can prove murder three easily. 

Guess we will find out soon, MN AG will have a "significant announcement" on the case this afternoon.

My Guess:  Upgrade to Murder 2 so they can charge the other 3 with aiding and abetting. (You can't charge that with Murder 3 in MN)

[SWSiouxMN]

On 6/1/2020 at 9:16 PM, Sioux>Bison said:

No thanks, let’s keep all this forum rule breaking in one thread.....

 

On 6/1/2020 at 9:08 PM, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Are two dumpster fires better than one?  I kinda like consuming my daily rage posts in one place.

You both make good points, I was thinking more along the lines to separate the two, even if it meant having 2 dumpster fires.

Carry on. 

[mikejm]

17 hours ago, yzerman19 said:

It almost feels orchestrated how things were just kinda coasting along, then bang, bang the whole underbelly exposed.  

 

16 hours ago, UNDlaw80 said:

It certainly happened quickly. 

But remember, even before coronavirus this country was walking on egg-shells with division.  Obviously division has always existed, and it has bubbled up  more explicitly at times...       

Politics aside, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, GWB, Obama all had the decency to not utterly demonize the segment of America that didn't agree with them...I can understand how it may be appealing to some, but it doesn't work if you're job is to represent every citizen.    

I’m not surprised in the slightest this country is on fire.  You elect a divisive clown, expect a circus.  

This country has been sideways on racial equality since Day One. And this country has been trying to legislate racial equality since the aftermath of the Civil War.

LBJ worked hard (see Civil Rights Act of 1964). We have courts and legislatures take stabs at outlawing discrimination almost yearly. And yet the discrimination and unequal treatment continues.

One of my grandfathers (born early 1900s) was the most hateful, racist people I've ever known. I used to think when his generation died off we'd make progress. Then I thought my father's generation was to be blamed for the continuing inequality. He's gone and the problem persists.

America is simply a racist nation, with the discrimination baked into institutions and people, and I honestly don't know how it changes. I understand why people are marching and protesting another death of a black man at the hands of white cops. I see where the continuing frustrations fester and boil. But I'm white and can't ever hope to understand what it must feel like to try to live as a person of color in this country.

I have friends who are not white who tell me they are constantly afraid of being pulled over for "driving while black". I know black men - homeowners, husbands, fathers, professionals - who won't go out for a leisurely walk in their own neighborhood because someone is likely to call the police.

Maybe it is my generation. Maybe when the Boomers die off, America can finally live up to its promise of "all men are created equal". Right now, looking at cities across the nation burning every night, I don't see a way out of this mess.

We need to love and respect each other. I don't know where else to start.

[planet2county]

https://www.gofundme.com/f/officer-cody-holte-memorial

[MrEdway]

Racism is hardly an issue confined to the US. It's worldwide. And it will never go away.

[Oxbow6]

Picture on front page of Fargo Forum is Cody Holte's wife clinging to a folded American flag at his funeral.

Article below that picture is about a sit-in for George Floyd this Friday in front of the city hall in Fargo.

Any sit-in planned for Cody in GF? Didn't think so.

[SiouxBoys]

34 minutes ago, mikejm said:

 

This country has been sideways on racial equality since Day One. And this country has been trying to legislate racial equality since the aftermath of the Civil War.

LBJ worked hard (see Civil Rights Act of 1964). We have courts and legislatures take stabs at outlawing discrimination almost yearly. And yet the discrimination and unequal treatment continues.

One of my grandfathers (born early 1900s) was the most hateful, racist people I've ever known. I used to think when his generation died off we'd make progress. Then I thought my father's generation was to be blamed for the continuing inequality. He's gone and the problem persists.

America is simply a racist nation, with the discrimination baked into institutions and people, and I honestly don't know how it changes. I understand why people are marching and protesting another death of a black man at the hands of white cops. I see where the continuing frustrations fester and boil. But I'm white and can't ever hope to understand what it must feel like to try to live as a person of color in this country.

I have friends who are not white who tell me they are constantly afraid of being pulled over for "driving while black". I know black men - homeowners, husbands, fathers, professionals - who won't go out for a leisurely walk in their own neighborhood because someone is likely to call the police.

Maybe it is my generation. Maybe when the Boomers die off, America can finally live up to its promise of "all men are created equal". Right now, looking at cities across the nation burning every night, I don't see a way out of this mess.

We need to love and respect each other. I don't know where else to start.

This is simply not true and I am so sorry that you feel this way.

[90siouxfan]

8 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Picture on front page of Fargo Forum is Cody Holte's wife clinging to a folded American flag at his funeral.

Article below that picture is about a sit-in for George Floyd this Friday in front of the city hall in Fargo.

Any sit-in planned for Cody in GF? Didn't think so.

I dislike to throw some gasoline, but one group has been conditioned to be victims....  

[SiouxBoys]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883