State of UND athletics 2019-forward

[gfhockey]

Where’s all this cash rea has been hoarding for $500k per year

[SIOUXFAN97]

25 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

Where’s all this cash rea has been hoarding for $500k per year

ozarks...cough cough.....

[The Sicatoka]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

... by purely looking at the UND football budget, which includes coaches salary, you’ll see the budget is destitute. 

An objective look at the football spending and football salaries numbers.

https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/c3a9e548 

Note: Of those five (UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, UNI), the +4.73% (percent change in dollars) from 2017-2021 by UND is the largest increase in football spending. 

[FSSD]

To call myself out - I pulled the 500K out of thin air.  And UND's football budget is far from destitute.  Here are the numbers from Dept of Education.

School	Football Budget
NDSU	$5,104,034
UND	$4,675,386
MSU	$4,519,423
Ill St	$4,308,293
YSU	$3,792,946
USD	$3,665,448
SDSU	$3,406,193
Ind St	$3,391,722
SIU	$3,379,647
UNI	$3,286,127
Drake	$2,688,848
Valpo	$889,262
WIU	$708,017

[petey23]

3 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Sure, they’re hockey fans, but again, the agreement with the Engelstads hurts UND as the school lost autonomy with their own athletic department. The priority to hockey is not shocking or a mystery, due to Ralph’s connection as you stated, but is it right? Plus, do you think any money towards “hookers and blow” would be publicized? Of course not, only the items that enhance image will be. The legal trail that their money has created is immense and credit to those who have the time to trace it but even more credit to those who have the ability to assess the situation objectively. 
 

UND’s athletic department was bought by a major donor’s family and foundation. The department has lost crucial autonomy because of it. Previous attempts to argue it or reposition have led to publicized arguments, disputes and ultimately staffing changes.

The relationship led to some nice buildings in Grand Forks, but it’s not a good long-term relationship for UND, at least as is. That much I’ll maintain. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

30 minutes ago, petey23 said:

Oh, it can be enjoyed, but it also can be improved. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, FSSD said:

To call myself out - I pulled the 500K out of thin air.  And UND's football budget is far from destitute.  Here are the numbers from Dept of Education.

School	Football Budget
NDSU	$5,104,034
UND	$4,675,386
MSU	$4,519,423
Ill St	$4,308,293
YSU	$3,792,946
USD	$3,665,448
SDSU	$3,406,193
Ind St	$3,391,722
SIU	$3,379,647
UNI	$3,286,127
Drake	$2,688,848
Valpo	$889,262
WIU	$708,017

For NDSU being a “football school”, UND isn’t too far off. UND could be #1 if a bit of reallocation occurred. Again, selling away autonomy within their own athletic department is not something I agree with. Previous UND staff members have noted this as well but the culture in place by the $$$ has booted them out. 

[homer]

24 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

For NDSU being a “football school”, UND isn’t too far off. UND could be #1 if a bit of reallocation occurred. Again, selling away autonomy within their own athletic department is not something I agree with. Previous UND staff members have noted this as well but the culture in place by the $$$ has booted them out. 

Consistent seasons and selling more tickets would do wonders for that budget

[UND-FB-FAN]

48 minutes ago, homer said:

Consistent seasons and selling more tickets would do wonders for that budget

Yeah, everyone wants that, so how do you propose they do that? More financial support from their institution is the obvious answer to win more/be more consistent, but curious what other brilliant ideas people have.
 

Of course, since this is a facilities thread, I will highlight the progress being made with phase II of the football facilities, scheduled to be done in 2024. Having that completed will help take UND football to the next level. 

[Sioux>Bison]

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

For NDSU being a “football school”, UND isn’t too far off. UND could be #1 if a bit of reallocation occurred. Again, selling away autonomy within their own athletic department is not something I agree with. Previous UND staff members have noted this as well but the culture in place by the $$$ has booted them out. 

UND isn’t investing in the HPC2 and Memorial Village because they want to compete with the average FCS schools…… UND want to be a top FCS team with the top facilities. Offering COA was also not by mistake. UND leadership will Not be caught off guard again to be left at a lower level if there is any future movement to the G5 by the top regional FCS schools.

[nodak651]

6 hours ago, gfhockey said:

Where’s all this cash rea has been hoarding for $500k per year

page 26

Source is NDUS 2020 Annual Report, linked above. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

10 hours ago, nodak651 said:

page 26

Source is NDUS 2020 Annual Report, linked above. 

According to the Dept of Education data posted above, UND is only behind NDSU in football budget by a little over 400k. Sure looks like REA could get UND football over the hump all the while by maintaining UND’s tremendous hockey spending and facilities. Sadly, it sure seems like there is hesitancy by the hockey-only crowd for this to happen, though. Stubbornness and selfishness by the Engelstads/Mcgarry was certainly evident in the past and it didn’t help when they were approached previously by UND staff. 

Bottom line: If Ralph Engelstad Arena could be a true asset for all of UND sports, and not just a tool to advance Engelstads/Mcgarry’s personal agenda, then UND hockey and UND football BOTH could be top funded programs. Unfortunately, UND has limited autonomy within their own athletic department; hopefully 2030 will truthfully change that.

[Kab]

11 hours ago, nodak651 said:

page 26

Source is NDUS 2020 Annual Report, linked above. 

 

11 hours ago, nodak651 said:

page 26

Source is NDUS 2020 Annual Report, linked above. 

500,000 x 20 years = 10,000,000

doesn’t leave much, cash would be negative 

where does this 500,000 figure come from?

[Bison Dan]

58 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

According to the Dept of Education data posted above, UND is only behind NDSU in football budget by a little over 400k. Sure looks like REA could get UND football over the hump all the while by maintaining UND’s tremendous hockey spending and facilities. Sadly, it sure seems like there is hesitancy by the hockey-only crowd for this to happen, though. Stubbornness and selfishness by the Engelstads/Mcgarry was certainly evident in the past and it didn’t help when they were approached previously by UND staff. 

Bottom line: If Ralph Engelstad Arena could be a true asset for all of UND sports, and not just a tool to advance Engelstads/Mcgarry’s personal agenda, then UND hockey and UND football BOTH could be top funded programs. Unfortunately, UND has limited autonomy within their own athletic department; hopefully 2030 will truthfully change that.

Do you really think money is the problem for the fb team?  More money will cure all the ills?  Look at SDSU's spending!

 

[UND1983]

Anybody that thinks UND spends about the same as NDSU on football is an idiot.  And I am talking about total spending, not the half-assed BS they need to report.

[nodak651]

1 hour ago, Bison Dan said:

Do you really think money is the problem for the fb team?  More money will cure all the ills?  Look at SDSU's spending!

 

Is SDSU still using swimming pool locker rooms?

[nodak651]

1 hour ago, Kab said:

 

500,000 x 20 years = 10,000,000

doesn’t leave much, cash would be negative 

where does this 500,000 figure come from?

FSSD already said he/she pulled that number out of thin air.  I was just showing that the REA has a hell of a lot of cash on hand.

[nodak651]

19 hours ago, FSSD said:

To call myself out - I pulled the 500K out of thin air.  And UND's football budget is far from destitute.  Here are the numbers from Dept of Education.

School	Football Budget
NDSU	$5,104,034
UND	$4,675,386
MSU	$4,519,423
Ill St	$4,308,293
YSU	$3,792,946
USD	$3,665,448
SDSU	$3,406,193
Ind St	$3,391,722
SIU	$3,379,647
UNI	$3,286,127
Drake	$2,688,848
Valpo	$889,262
WIU	$708,017

Do you have a link to that?

[FSSD]

47 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Do you have a link to that?

Equity in Athletics (ed.gov)

[The Sicatoka]

7 minutes ago, FSSD said:

Equity in Athletics (ed.gov)

Lots to be learned there if you compare the Dakota Four. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 hours ago, UND1983 said:

Anybody that thinks UND spends about the same as NDSU on football is an idiot.  And I am talking about total spending, not the half-assed BS they need to report.

Well, of course, but just going off the data available/reported, the UND football budget is not that far off.  Additionally, given the entire spectrum of information available, it’s also obvious that the REA holds a ton of revenue that could help UND football increase it’s budget in short order. The sad morale of the story here is that the agreements suggest it is UND hockey (backed by Engelstad/Mcgarry) vs the entire UND athletic department. The nickname change and the new logo’s abscence in the REA/Betty is just a microcosm of this.

Despite these concerns, folks have of course been bought over by the REA and the resultant hockey product; thus, this crowd will argue otherwise, but this conflict has been publicized previously and is relatively established. With all that said, there really is no likelihood of anything changing before [maybe] 2030.

[The Sicatoka]

I'm not seeing holding cash of about 10% of depreciated book value of the facilities (asset) as a problem. I'd be concerned (cash flow, expenses) if it was lower. 

(This is where @jdub27disagrees with me on a more nuanced fiscal point of view. )  

[gfhockey]

So whose getting the $500k

[FSSD]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

Lots to be learned there if you compare the Dakota Four. 

Are you talking about this $1.2 M difference to the South.

Category	NDSU	SDSU	UND	USD
Men's Teams Total Participants	336	354	228	256
Women's Teams Total Participants	243	353	199	289
Total Male Participants	336	354	228	256
Total Female Participants	243	353	199	289
Total Participants	579	707	427	545
Student Aid
Men's Teams	$3,186,056	$2,339,760	$2,908,752	$2,432,996
Women's Teams	$1,971,671	$1,857,250	$2,235,548	$2,371,641

[The Sicatoka]

1 minute ago, FSSD said:

Are you talking about this $1.2 M difference to the South.

Category	NDSU	SDSU	UND	USD
Men's Teams Total Participants	336	354	228	256
Women's Teams Total Participants	243	353	199	289
Total Male Participants	336	354	228	256
Total Female Participants	243	353	199	289
Total Participants	579	707	427	545
Student Aid
Men's Teams	$3,186,056	$2,339,760	$2,908,752	$2,432,996
Women's Teams	$1,971,671	$1,857,250	$2,235,548	$2,371,641

Or this.